INTP/INFJ derailment discussion

Asa said:
Anyway.... . . . . . ..........


The whole personal example of my own existence thing is flawed because MBTI is flawed enough that few of us are sure of our types. Using ourselves as examples for a type when we may not be that type isn't the best route. Yet, how else can we discuss this? No idea, unless we all run off to the internet to study cognitive function (which sounds appealing, but I have stuff to do).

All that said, during this entire conversation my reactions were somewhere in between on the examples, but far less emotional than the stereotype of what Thinkers perceive Feelers to be like. There is a misconception about how the functions are supposed to work, accompanies by individual sensitivity, social conditioning, etc.

For example, like Moonflier, the only part of Slant's story I was "touched" by was the father watching his son die. The story was gross, but just another story about sick people murdering others.

If a friend were talking about her dogs I'd be all ears, because I'm a dog person. I typically reserve my dog discussions for other dog people. If you hurt my dogs I will hurt you worse. :)

I care about humanity and problems like starvation and homelessness. Humans should use their minds to solve these problems. So much brain power goes to waste.
However, I live in a secluded place away from people on purpose.

Unlike many Feelers, I do not think love is the greatest thing about life. Romantic love is often completely silly, a waste of time and energy, and often a cover-up for lust. I value kindness and compassion far above romantic love. Ours minds are the greatest thing about being alive. We have so much potential, both individually and collectively.

Though I talk about emotional stuff on the forum, that is how I relate to the forum - it's purpose. Among most friends I'd rather discuss ideas unless I'm with a friend who is a strong Feeler. I'm more excited by meeting up with INTPs and INTJs so we can talk about philosophy, theology, art, music, literature, science, politics, etc.

Sitting around watching sports, movies, or TV seems like hell for me when people could be doing any other activity where they're actively using their brains. I do play video games but at least this involves making my own decisions.

I do have strong feelings and I do cry. I care. I'm interested in humans and the human experience. I'm interested in animal welfare.

I can't say what being a person with Primary Feeling is like.
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I think there are many types that aren't clearly a thinker or feeler. This is reserved for those that are dominant; those that strongly prefer. Thinking and feeling aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. There are times when one strategy makes more sense than the other. It takes wisdom to know the best course of action.

Theoretically, INTJs are closer to INFJs, in respect to the T/F dichotomy. Many INTJs have strong feeling preferences, which makes them seem INFJish and many INFJs have strong thinking preferences, which makes them seem INTJish. The lines can be very blurred. Many of INJs with clear T/F preferences fit the stereotypes more, and are closer to T/F dominants.

It's those with the strongest preferences that have a difficult accepting those with mixed preferences. A thinker could seem very much like a feeler, and visa versa.

I agree with much of what you said about love and romantic relationships. I would much rather focus on ideas and understanding than what I think are unrealistic notions of intimate relations.
 
Maikl Jexocuha said:
So, I used to have a long time ENFJ friend. And we would get into discussions about biology due to questions that would come up during a joint project we were working on. One thing I noticed about him was difficulty separating pure information from their feelings about it or perceived social value. It would get frustrating after presenting facts and research and of how little value it was... but I can't speak for all. That's just my observation from at least 2 feeling-dom intuitives. I feel for them...
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I admit that while discussing ideas is my favorite form of discussion, I tend to link it to personal instead of keeping it factual. I view this as a personal flaw, though it works well for philosophical discussions and understanding other humans.
Last night a friend needed technical help and was feeling insecure about it. I sent her photo examples, told her the technical aspects, wrote a quick note of encouragement to make it more sympathetic, and left it at that.

ThomasJ79 said:
I think there are many types that aren't clearly a thinker or feeler. This is reserved for those that are dominant; those that strongly prefer. Thinking and feeling aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. There are times when one strategy makes more sense than the other. It takes wisdom to know the best course of action.

Theoretically, INTJs are closer to INFJs, in respect to the T/F dichotomy. Many INTJs have strong feeling preferences, which makes them seem INFJish and many INFJs have strong thinking preferences, which makes them seem INTJish. The lines can be very blurred. Many of INJs with clear T/F preferences fit the stereotypes more, and are closer to T/F dominants.

It's those with the strongest preferences that have a difficult accepting those with mixed preferences. A thinker could seem very much like a feeler, and visa versa.

I agree with much of what you said about love and romantic relationships. I would much rather focus on ideas and understanding than what I think are unrealistic notions of intimate relations.
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I go back and forth with close friends who are into MBTI about my type. INFJ makes the most sense, but I have considered both INTJ and INTP. I'm very "T" for a Feeler. Recently, I realized my expectation for Fe differed from what Fe is, especially secondary, and that my Fe is not undeveloped. Sensors are alien to me, even if I'm friends with them or related to them.

I need to think about topics to decide what I believe, and I need to think about what I want to say. I pause quite a bit when I speak. I do not like fast-paced debate (I'll inevitably say something I'm not invested in, which is a big mistake) and I loathe Te people who belittle others for not being as fast-paced, or for not knowing a specific fact or topic. That is how I know I'm not a T-dom.
 
Maikl Jexocuha said:
So, I used to have a long time ENFJ friend. And we would get into discussions about biology due to questions that would come up during a joint project we were working on. One thing I noticed about him was difficulty separating pure information from their feelings about it or perceived social value. It would get frustrating after presenting facts and research and of how little value it was... but I can't speak for all. That's just my observation from at least 2 feeling-dom intuitives. I feel for them...
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How come you're no longer friends? :-/
 
Asa said:
I admit that while discussing ideas is my favorite form of discussion, I tend to link it to personal instead of keeping it factual. I view this as a personal flaw, though it works well for philosophical discussions and understanding other humans.
Last night a friend needed technical help and was feeling insecure about it. I sent her photo examples, told her the technical aspects, wrote a quick note of encouragement to make it more sympathetic, and left it at that.



I go back and forth with close friends who are into MBTI about my type. INFJ makes the most sense, but I have considered both INTJ and INTP. I'm very "T" for a Feeler. Recently, I realized my expectation for Fe differed from what Fe is, especially secondary, and that my Fe is not undeveloped. Sensors are alien to me, even if I'm friends with them or related to them.

I need to think about topics to decide what I believe, and I need to think about what I want to say. I pause quite a bit when I speak. I do not like fast-paced debate (I'll inevitably say something I'm not invested in, which is a big mistake) and I loathe Te people who belittle others for not being as fast-paced, or for not knowing a specific fact or topic. That is how I know I'm not a T-dom.
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I see a lot of genuine T traits in you, as well as F. You obviously know yourself the best as to your overall preferences.

I think a lot of people who type themselves as T use it as a defense mechanism to be a d***. I see a lot of ego centric individuals who use their "preference" for T toward being a D. Unfortunately, being autistic, psychopathic, and or narcissistic can qualify one as T, skewing the average.

One of the ways I lean toward T is that I do value factual information, often with a passion. Empiricism is a very important component of Knowledge. I am aware of how such things can affect people and as I've gotten older and more mature I have softened my approach as I have realized not everyone values truth from the same angle. I don't give up my own worldview, but I do like to challenge ideas, even if it upsets people. I am just more respectful in my approach now(not that I was ever very disrespectful), learned when to pick my battles, etc. I would rather see someone open their own mind when it comes to the dogmatic beliefs people are steeped in since birth.
 
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ThomasJ79 said:
I think a lot of people who type themselves as T use it as a defense mechanism to be a d***. I see a lot of ego centric individuals who use their "preference" for T toward being a D.
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I agree with that. Many of them probably genuinely think they're T types, though.
 
Asa said:
I go back and forth with close friends who are into MBTI about my type. INFJ makes the most sense, but I have considered both INTJ and INTP. I'm very "T" for a Feeler. Recently, I realized my expectation for Fe differed from what Fe is, especially secondary, and that my Fe is not undeveloped. Sensors are alien to me, even if I'm friends with them or related to them.
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Going back and forth between INTJ and INTP sounds like a normal 'thinky' INFJ trait lol.

For what it's worth, I think you're a very clear INFJ. I wouldn't doubt your type for a second—and it's not often I feel as confident as that.
 
Maikl Jexocuha said:
To put it shortly: Racism. He had a history of saying some pretty covert and overt racist stuff. I would always brush it off like it was just a joke. Except during one of our discussions, I had to turn my "feeling" cap on and just accept that I could no longer accept it anymore. And it was nasty. For there was more than a few of us together, and my questioning his knowledge of the difference between phenotypes and genotypes led him to reveal himself as a "Nazi". I just couldn't do it anymore.

I am staunchly anti-racist. btw.
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Wow. I see. Yeah, it does seem like a good reason to break off a friendship.

I've had similar issues in the past. There comes a point where enough is enough.
 
Asa said:
I need to think about topics to decide what I believe, and I need to think about what I want to say. I pause quite a bit when I speak. I do not like fast-paced debate (I'll inevitably say something I'm not invested in, which is a big mistake) and I loathe Te people who belittle others for not being as fast-paced, or for not knowing a specific fact or topic. That is how I know I'm not a T-dom.
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Relatable.
 
Daustus said:
Relatable.
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I'd be quite curious to see how interacting with you would be in person. You seem quite relaxed and [insert opposite of overbearing] :)

I also relate to @Asa's words, especially the part about pausing, but I can also have intense/fast-paced moments when I get especially impassioned.
 
ThomasJ79 said:
Same. Need lots of time to process. I stink at fast paced debates.....fast paced most things actually. My response times during conversation is often embarrassingly slow. Some exceptions include skills I have mastered and many video games.
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So I do this thing, where if I get sucker punched by an idea I literally check out of the conversation for like maybe 30 secs to 5 minutes. I'll usually come to and realize that the conversation moved on. I may let it go in the moment but revisit it 1 on 1 later. "So that thing you said 3 months ago at the Christmas party. Here is my detailed thoughts and analysis on it. I'd like your input now. Just so you know if broke my brain for a bit."
 
ThomasJ79 said:
Same. Need lots of time to process. I stink at fast paced debates.....fast paced most things actually. My response times during conversation is often embarrassingly slow. Some exceptions include skills I have mastered and many video games.
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Daustus said:
So I do this thing, where if I get sucker punched by an idea I literally check out of the conversation for like maybe 30 secs to 5 minutes. I'll usually come to and realize that the conversation moved on. I may let it go in the moment but revisit it 1 on 1 later. "So that thing you said 3 months ago at the Christmas party. Here is my detailed thoughts and analysis on it. I'd like your input now. Just so you know if broke my brain for a bit."
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Do you guys sometimes find yourselves revisiting a discussion and going like: "Damn, at that moment I should have said that! And at that other moment I should have said that other thing!"

"Why did I say none of these things!" :laughing:
 
Daustus said:
So I do this thing, where if I get sucker punched by an idea I literally check out of the conversation for like maybe 30 secs to 5 minutes. I'll usually come to and realize that the conversation moved on. I may let it go in the moment but revisit it 1 on 1 later. "So that thing you said 3 months ago at the Christmas party. Here is my detailed thoughts and analysis on it. I'd like your input now. Just so you know if broke my brain for a bit."
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:tearsofjoy:

I so understand.
 
Ren said:
Going back and forth between INTJ and INTP sounds like a normal 'thinky' INFJ trait lol.

For what it's worth, I think you're a very clear INFJ. I wouldn't doubt your type for a second—and it's not often I feel as confident as that.
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Thank you. I question it, and everything else.

@Maikl Jexocuha – Thank you.

@Daustus is a really chill person. I 'just know' that. Who else would name their blog "Post Hard Core Minivan"?

Regarding people using being T-dom as a gateway to their dickishness, I definitely see that happen. Some people can't get past using MBTI to stroke their egos, sometimes inaccurately.

My SO said something the other day that had us laughing in tears. He gave a typically honest, concise criticism about someone lacking basic technical skills. The criticism was justified because it affected him. He then said, "Fuck, I'm an asshole. I'm right, but I'm an asshole." The difference in "assholeness" here is that he acknowledged what he said was hurtful and felt bad about it, to a degree. He understood if he said it to the person's face he'd have to try to be gentler, but he still had that INTJ attitude that he was right. (He was right, btw.)

Maikl Jexocuha said:
To put it shortly: Racism. He had a history of saying some pretty covert and overt racist stuff. I would always brush it off like it was just a joke. Except during one of our discussions, I had to turn my "feeling" cap on and just accept that I could no longer accept it anymore. And it was nasty. For there was more than a few of us together, and my questioning his knowledge of the difference between phenotypes and genotypes led him to reveal himself as a "Nazi". I just couldn't do it anymore.

I am staunchly anti-racist. btw.
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That is terrible. When you told the story I assumed the friendship ended because of personalities clashing. I'm sorry it was over something so serious and disgusting.
 
Asa said:
Some people can't get past using MBTI to stroke their egos, sometimes inaccurately.
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ESTP: *does MBTI test but has no self-awareness so answers wrongly and gets INFJ*
ESTP: omg

images
 
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