Is conservative really a Conservative?

[unpersons]

It was JFK that proposed dropping the top marginal rate from 91% to 65% in his '63 State of the Union Address.
At the time, Republicans were of the opinion that the country couldn't withstand such tax cuts. Imagine that?
The top rate was eventually dropped to 70% with the revenue act of 1964.

Yeah, my bad.

 

[Lerxst]

Just because you don't agree with what mainstream society values, it doesn't make you a liberal, and I would say that it doesn't make you a conservative either. If you're in a relatively liberal society and you're happy with things being as they are, then you might be called a conservative. The liberal in that society would be the one pushing for even more rights and freedoms for people (say, polygamy), not less. I suppose that today's radical is next year's liberal is the following year's conservative... something like that.

If you think that the society has gone too far and become too free (probably in terms of civil rights and protections), then you're more like a reactionary-- this person would be saying that gay people should NOT be allowed to marry and society should outlaw the practice. Some people consider reactionaries and conservatives to be the same thing, but I think it's probably better to make a distinction-- since one of these views is moderate and still relatively liberal whereas the other is intolerant and for lack of a better word regressive.

Actually, the person pushing for individual freedom and rights in the US would be the Libertarian; an extreme, conservative, right-wing party. The person (again, in the US) pushing for more communal, government sponsored programs is the Liberal.

However, when you open up the can of polygamy (I live in rural Utah, by the way) you deal with the traditional Conservative mindset, supported by a bunch of Liberal programs. They want the individual freedoms to do whatever they want and support a very myopic world view, but need the social safety net to support their dozen kids, healthcare, food stamps and welfare (each additional wife is legally considered a "single mother" by law).

 

[Gul Dukat]

Actually, the person pushing for individual freedom and rights in the US would be the Libertarian; an extreme, conservative, right-wing party. The person (again, in the US) pushing for more communal, government sponsored programs is the Liberal.

You couldn't possibly think that this is true. When was the last time an extreme right wing party actually supported abortion or gay marriage? Or for that matter women's rights? All of these things are individual freedoms that right-wingers often want to outlaw… about the only things they care about in terms of individual rights are freedom of speech (so long as it's not promoting degenerate behavior or anything they disagree with) and guns (because it makes them feel more powerful).

In the US, libertarians tend to be socially left and economically right… they're not conservatives, because conservatives are socially right. Liberals tend to describe people who are socially left and economically moderate (well, for the most part I think the word liberals as it's commonly understood applies only to people who fight for the rights of minorities and such)-- in Canada liberals are probably more economically moderate-left and socially left, whereas the Conservatives are economically moderate-right and socially right.

The way I understand the left/right divide is that the left wants egalitarianism (help those in need) and the right wants law of the jungle (everyone helps themselves, only the strongest survive).

 

[problemz]

The left wants the government to redistribute the functional persons' income toward the nonfunctional so that government itself can become more powerful and intrusive and monstrous. Orwell said that dictatorship of the proletariat was meant finally only to become a dictatorship (period). That's fairly obviously what has always happened to hokey dreams of the leftist variety. The right wants instead strong functional families to make each person functional and to feel loved, and argues that this will lead to more functionality and also help build a wall against governmental overreach. The left wants everyone to become an atomized orphan. In Romania, that's what Ceausescu actually sought: an army of orphans called Securitate that would always do his will. Normal Christians and families rose up and killed the sick bastard and all his sick bastards while singing, "God Exists!"

God, does, exist. And he likes families. He started one in the G of Eden. It had exactly one man, and one woman, and is the norm for all families to come. Weirdo leftists don't want there to be any norms. Conservatives look to God for their sense of norms. Conservatives are right. Leftists are what's left. Conservatives want the free market. Marxists want a closed market operated by the government, the way it is in North Korea. Conservatives prefer South Korea.

 

[Gul Dukat]

The left wants the government to redistribute the functional persons' income toward the nonfunctional so that government itself can become more powerful and intrusive and monstrous. Orwell said that dictatorship of the proletariat was meant finally only to become a dictatorship (period). That's fairly obviously what has always happened to hokey dreams of the leftist variety. The right wants instead strong functional families to make each person functional and to feel loved, and argues that this will lead to more functionality and also help build a wall against governmental overreach. The left wants everyone to become an atomized orphan. In Romania, that's what Ceausescu actually sought: an army of orphans called Securitate that would always do his will. Normal Christians and families rose up and killed the sick bastard and all his sick bastards while singing, "God Exists!"

God, does, exist. And he likes families. He started one in the G of Eden. It had exactly one man, and one woman, and is the norm for all families to come. Weirdo leftists don't want there to be any norms. Conservatives look to God for their sense of norms. Conservatives are right. Leftists are what's left. Conservatives want the free market. Marxists want a closed market operated by the government, the way it is in North Korea. Conservatives prefer South Korea.

LOL-- are you for real?

 

[Stu]

the only conservatives i respect are the gun toting, home schooling, sunday best ones. the rest are leeches

 

[Lerxst]

The left wants the government to redistribute the functional persons' income toward the nonfunctional so that government itself can become more powerful and intrusive and monstrous. Orwell said that dictatorship of the proletariat was meant finally only to become a dictatorship (period). That's fairly obviously what has always happened to hokey dreams of the leftist variety. The right wants instead strong functional families to make each person functional and to feel loved, and argues that this will lead to more functionality and also help build a wall against governmental overreach. The left wants everyone to become an atomized orphan. In Romania, that's what Ceausescu actually sought: an army of orphans called Securitate that would always do his will. Normal Christians and families rose up and killed the sick bastard and all his sick bastards while singing, "God Exists!"

God, does, exist. And he likes families. He started one in the G of Eden. It had exactly one man, and one woman, and is the norm for all families to come. Weirdo leftists don't want there to be any norms. Conservatives look to God for their sense of norms. Conservatives are right. Leftists are what's left. Conservatives want the free market. Marxists want a closed market operated by the government, the way it is in North Korea. Conservatives prefer South Korea.

What makes a Liberal a Liberal is the fact that even though we know someone like you is out there, we would still support Universal Healthcare, Social Security, education and dozens of other social welfare programs, despite the fact that you may actually benefit from them. Whereas Conservatives cut their losses and run when they may inadvertently help someone they disapprove of.

Personally, I find people as far off the common sense chart as you to be the comic relief of our society; you're the Chris Farleys to our David Spades, the Hoben Washburnes to our Malcolm Reynolds, or the Han Solos to our Luke Skywalkers. I'm all in favor of protecting the comic relief (despite the fact that Wash was killed off...) since without you guys, life would be really dull!

 

[Jack]

Typically I've associated conservatism with an attitude favoring smaller government, such as libertarian-ism and anarchism, Republicans aren't actual conservatives in a certain sense, sure they're socially conservative, (ol' traditional values and all), but politically, as liberal as Democrats. Although, there are a lot of left-libertarians, like myself, who are politically conservative aside from favoring social welfare programs and such, while being socially moderate. I suppose this goes with how conservative/liberal were initially defined in this thread, as in the past, American government was limited, so it's conservative now, while limited government was a liberal idea at the time it was established.