Is Feminism Outdated?

[invisible]

rape is a very serious crime, on the same level with murder and mutilation. it changes victims lives forever, and it regularly does succeed in killing them. the fact that you think it is possible to make a meaningful comparison about which is preferable between things like this is an indication only of your supreme ignorance and your arrogant refusal to attempt to imagine how things really are for other people.

 

[invisible]

a lot of conspiracy theories support strangely mainstream agendas, ie. they support groups who are already dominant, clearly wielding power, at the expense of groups who are disempowered. kinda a bit like typical fascist backlash against extreme capitalist economics, poor distribution of power. and so then when you say something like "women, a group of people who are excluded from the power majority in our society, and physically weaker and especially susceptible to violation, are being raped in frightening numbers by those who hold the power majority", theyre like "well, that doesnt really matter, because there are worse things than getting raped" or like "and anyway, people who already fall into the category of the power majority are killing each other for greater power too, so groups with less power should just stfu about having less power" and youre like "it is really not acceptable to talk garbage like that, and i refuse to listen to anything you say ever again, because you have repeatedly proven that everything that you talk is just exactly this variety of crap"... somehow, you become the crazed, intolerant one, and not them.

those people are not harmless. they pretend to be gentle and harmless, but they arent. they dont deserve attention or discussion... they deserve to be ignored. they are going around telling other people that their minds are poisoned by ideologies.... when really they are the ones that are poisonous. they dont care about equality, or the problems that different disenfranchised groups face. all they care about is themselves.

 

[invisible]

you really should have been banned from this forum a long time ago, for thread spamming, and for repeatedly attacking people for who they are on the basis of their personal beliefs and ideas. i have no idea why you are still permitted to post here.

 

[muir]

rape is a very serious crime, on the same level with murder and mutilation. it changes victims lives forever, and it regularly does succeed in killing them. the fact that you think it is possible to make a meaningful comparison about which is preferable between things like this is an indication only of your supreme ignorance and your arrogant refusal to attempt to imagine how things really are for other people.

No i have acknowledged that rape is a terrible thing..i was very clear on that

All i am saying is that men also face threats in this world

Are you able to see through your feminist programming to see that men are also suffering in this world?

 

[muir]

a lot of conspiracy theories support strangely mainstream agendas, ie. they support groups who are already dominant, clearly wielding power, at the expense of groups who are disempowered. kinda a bit like typical fascist backlash against extreme capitalist economics, poor distribution of power. and so then when you say something like "women, a group of people who are excluded from the power majority in our society, and physically weaker and especially susceptible to violation, are being raped in frightening numbers by those who hold the power majority", theyre like "well, that doesnt really matter, because there are worse things than getting raped" or like "and anyway, people who already fall into the category of the power majority are killing each other for greater power too, so groups with less power should just stfu about having less power" and youre like "it is really not acceptable to talk garbage like that, and i refuse to listen to anything you say ever again, because you have repeatedly proven that everything that you talk is just exactly this variety of crap"... somehow, you become the crazed, intolerant one, and not them.

those people are not harmless. they pretend to be gentle and harmless, but they arent. they dont deserve attention or discussion... they deserve to be ignored. they are going around telling other people that their minds are poisoned by ideologies.... when really they are the ones that are poisonous. they dont care about equality, or the problems that different disenfranchised groups face. all they care about is themselves.

We are trying to communicate here through a massive missunderstanding

That missunderstanding is never going to be transcended while you are speaking from a platform of such anger

Warren Farrel says early in that clip that men make up many of the scientists and inventors in society so they are when they are acting positiviely the most constructive force in society

He then goes on to say that men make up many of the murderers and rapists etc in our society so when they are acting negatively they are the most destructive force in our society

So what he is saying is that we need as a society to make sure that men are influenced positively

he was one of the leading feminists in the latest wave of feminism until he noticed something happening to the young men in society and he felt he needed to speak out about it

Does any of that sound unreasonable to you?

 

[muir]

you really should have been banned from this forum a long time ago, for thread spamming, and for repeatedly attacking people for who they are on the basis of their personal beliefs and ideas. i have no idea why you are still permitted to post here.

I could say the same about you

You are attacking me and my societal foundations with your hatefully biased ideology..it's causing me and others here distress and many of them have expressed their views to that effect

There are MANY here on the forum who agree with me and disagree with you...so tell me why people should be banned just because you don't agree with them when MANY other people do agree with them?

And don't cite forum rules as they could be used to condem your views
Thats the difference between me and you

I accept that you have a different view to me and i am happy to debate you on it but i wouldn't call for you to be thrown off the forum for it

Are you afraid of diversity of opinion?

Oh and stop spamming up the thread with attacks on me and get down to the thread issue: is feminism outdated?

 

[Trifoilum]

Outdated? Not so much. Trust me, I am one.
I think it's starting to permeate through the general culture; beyond the gender studies and the art /literary criticism. Thus, it became less pronounced.

But when we talk about Miley Cyrus, Wendy Davis, Malala Yousafzai, abortion, Orange is the New Black, Betty Draper, Black Widow, Captain Marvel, Brienne of Tarth, we are also talking about feminism.

Then if we start looking in depth within specific areas, we too will encounter issues of gender. Comic books, games, science, web developers, researchers...

(I also read some of @TheDaringHatTrick and @SpecialEdition and other users' posts, and I actually do not disagree. Like many other, if not ALL belief system, not every believers are going to be perfect examples. Many are hateful, privileged, angry under the banner of feminism.

It speaks more about their own character and/or maturity, for I have seen lots of mature, thoughtful feminists too.
But I understand the distaste.
As an ideal that tries to promote equality between the sexes and genders, it still stands.)

 

[La Sagna]

[video=youtube;UwJRFClybmk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwJRFClybmk[/video]

 

[La Sagna]

[video=youtube;DeIDSzIAmjQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeIDSzIAmjQ[/video]

 

[muir]

[video=youtube;UwJRFClybmk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwJRFClybmk[/video]

Oh its her!

Now where have i seen her before? Oh yes that's right i posted a video by her before in which she is acting as a spokesperson for planned parenthood. In the video she is promoting bondage and sado-masochism to the teenagers

[video=youtube;K-nQ6N7XqtA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-nQ6N7XqtA[/video]

She is the perfect puppet of the eugencists behind planned parenthood (eg bill gates) who interestingly are also involved in the pop music industry in which female role models promote bondage and sexual violence

Weird how they simultaneously promote a radically sexualised society whilst at the same time promoting division between the sexes....where are all those sturred up energies going to go?

''But there's no link between marxist feminism and the pop industry and the eugenics movement muir, you're crazy! You with those conspiracy theories.....you know nothing...i know whats going on because i have read all the feminist literature''

***sigh*** yeah you've read all their propaganda...well done you.....and have you followed the money trail like i have? No you haven't otherwise you would know this stuff isn't 'conspiracy theory' its social engineering...cue massive corporate media hyping of '50 shades of grey!'

so what are our young girls being programmed to act like by their 'empowered' corporate role models?

Anyone seeing a theme here among the following popstars:
rhianna, katy perry, britney spears, lady ga ga, madonna & miley cyrus?

Lets see if there is another theme in their work:

Yay illuminati feminism!

 

[muir]

[video=youtube;DeIDSzIAmjQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeIDSzIAmjQ[/video]

What a fucking schill that guy is!

He links speaking out against oppression to being jewish? Wow so i guess there is a clip of him on youtube somewhere criticisng the bombing of gaza by the israelis right?

Also he cites the violence portrayed in porn films...uh huh mr schill so tell me...who controls the film industry huh?

Well mr schill I see how you and your marxist buddies play everyone off against each other you manipulative fucks and more and more people are seeing it

 

[muir]

male / female dynamics in a changing world...should we discuss such things or sweep them under the carpet and pretend they don't exist until they blow up in our faces?

[video=youtube;xBcHg77J5Yc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBcHg77J5Yc[/video]

 

[Lark]

Can you be a feminist without being a lesbian?

 

[La Sagna]

Can you be a feminist without being a lesbian?

Is that a joke?

 

[Lark]

Is that a joke?

I was being facetious but that video about feminism, I didnt watch it but it has the gay "colours" in the symbol in the freeze frame, I'm heteronormative in my culture and politics, its just one instance of thinking which is anathema to the modern left liberal amalgum of "good causes" so I tend to mention things like this. People tend to like their own partisan dividing lines and seperate camps and expect people to conform to them, its just common sense right that supporting a and b will mean support for c? Well no, not at all.

 

[La Sagna]

I was being facetious but that video about feminism, I didnt watch it but it has the gay "colours" in the symbol in the freeze frame, I'm heteronormative in my culture and politics, its just one instance of thinking which is anathema to the modern left liberal amalgum of "good causes" so I tend to mention things like this. People tend to like their own partisan dividing lines and seperate camps and expect people to conform to them, its just common sense right that supporting a and b will mean support for c? Well no, not at all.

I agree with you on this but at the same time I don't dismiss a good message or an important one because it is also intertwined with other messages or causes. I believe that is the way to be non-partisan, by not throwing out the baby with the bathwater. At times even in a message that I mostly disagree with there may be a gemstone that is worth considering and I am not above picking those out as good ideas or ones worth exploring.

 

[muir]

I was being facetious but that video about feminism, I didnt watch it but it has the gay "colours" in the symbol in the freeze frame, I'm heteronormative in my culture and politics, its just one instance of thinking which is anathema to the modern left liberal amalgum of "good causes" so I tend to mention things like this. People tend to like their own partisan dividing lines and seperate camps and expect people to conform to them, its just common sense right that supporting a and b will mean support for c? Well no, not at all.

lol

Of course they pull the minority groups into each others causes because they want to turn all different groups against each other and particularly against straight men

Ask yourself which demographic group is most likely to physically stand up against the tyrants who are behind all these manipulations and who want to enlave us all? (they create divisions in order to divide and rule the population)

I'll give you a clue...it's the same group that has been keeping women and gay people safe from dangerous animals, attackers and starvation for 200,000 years

 

[La Sagna]

lol

Of course they pull the minority groups into each others causes because they want to turn all different groups against each other and particularly against straight men

Ask yourself which demographic group is most likely to physically stand up against the tyrants who are behind all these manipulations and who want to enlave us all? (they create divisions in order to divide and rule the population)

I'll give you a clue...it's the same group that has been keeping women and gay people safe from dangerous animals, attackers and starvation for 200,000 years

[MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION], I encourage you to keep posting your points of view on here because I am quite convinced that they will do more to explain why feminism is still needed than anything I could possibly post.

Anybody who actually reads with an open mind what I have posted on feminism will see that I promote equality for all. On the other hand for somebody who pretends to promote 'equality for all human beings' you certainly seem to promote divisive ideas that have nothing to do with equality.

If you sincerely feel that you want equality for all I would suggest that you work on your arguments because they are falling short.

 

[muir]

@muir , I encourage you to keep posting your points of view on here because I am quite convinced that they will do more to explain why feminism is still needed than anything I could possibly post.

Anybody who actually reads with an open mind what I have posted on feminism will see that I promote equality for all. On the other hand for somebody who pretends to promote 'equality for all human beings' you certainly seem to promote divisive ideas that have nothing to do with equality.

If you sincerely feel that you want equality for all I would suggest that you work on your arguments because they are falling short.

I believe in equality in terms of voting, educational opportunities, funding for health issues and that sort of thing but i don't believe that men and women are exactly the same and that they behave exactly the same

For example....who built the roof over your head?

Who grew the food that's in your fridge right now?

Who designed and then built the computer you are typing on?

Men

You want to tell me that women carry the burden of the heavy lifting in society?

Also if women really want to live in the spirit of 'equality' then tell me why its culturally expected for men to always make the first move when trying to reach out in the hope of romance, companionship or just good ol physical connection?

Isn't it about time that women started walking the walk and not just talking the talk?

Or is it only 'equality' when it suits you?

 

[La Sagna]

[MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION] Who birthed, fed and raised the men you claim built the roof over my head, grew the food in my fridge (ignoring the fact that it is mostly women who have grown the food and fetched the water) and designed and built the computer? Who traditionally and still predominately will take care of these men if they become invalid or when they become old and sick? What would you prefer to do? Build something or change the dirty diaper of an elderly person? Which is more worthy or valuable work? I would propose that both are valuable and important work and that one shouldn't be valued over the other. The work that men have traditionally done have always and still is more glorified and deemed as 'real' work than the work that women have traditionally done. That is wrong. I can tell you that I have spent years care-giving in an unpaid capacity and that is not recognized in society. My ex who has worked very hard and earned lots of money for it is recognized with value and respect because he has a distinguished career and expertise which is recognized. Does that mean that all the hard work and dedication that I have done over the years was less meaningful or that I have less expertise because I wasn't getting paid for it? My ex worked long hours but mine were even longer and I had much less leisure time than he did but my hard work goes unrecognised because it wasn't paid and because it is still predominantly 'women's work'.

I think we should celebrate the differences while allowing for variations on those differences without fear of reprisals. Equality is not and has never been claimed to be about everybody being exactly the same but simply having the same rights:

Social equality is a state of affairs in which all people within a specific society or isolated group have the same status in certain respects. At the very least, social equality includes equal rights under the law, such as security, voting rights, freedom of speech and assembly, property rights, and equal access to social goods and services. However, it also includes concepts of health equity, economic equality and other social securities. It also includes equal opportunities and obligations, and so involves the whole of society.

Social equality requires the absence of legally enforced social class or caste boundaries and the absence of discrimination motivated by an inalienable part of a person's identity. For example, sex, gender, race, age, sexual orientation, origin, caste or class, income or property, language, religion, convictions, opinions, health or disability must not result in unequal treatment under the law and should not reduce opportunities unjustifiably.

Your glorification of heterosexual men as somehow being superior to the rest of us while at the same proclaiming that they are the 'real' victims of the system is problematic. I think you are falling into the same trap that you constantly warn us about. The idea that paid 'men's work' is of more value than the work done by the caregivers in society seems to me to be contrary to some of the ideas you espouse.

My stance has been and will always be that every human being has a right to be themselves and be protected from discrimination or mistreatment. Fighting for certain segments of society are just tools to help us reach that goal. I don't care which segment you chose to fight for it should not include anything that glorifies one group over another or is antagonistic towards the idea that other groups have the right to fight for what they need for themselves. I may call myself a feminist but that is just because females are the group of people that I predominantly choose to fight for but it is all wrapped up in the fight for everybody to have the same rights and any other group, including men, who realize that they need to put effort and energy into fighting for their right to be treated fairly and equally will have my support to do so, as long as it does not include demeaning another group. I certainly extend that to any feminist group that includes misandry, which in my opinion has no place in feminism and is actually anti-feminist.