Is it possible to have a healthy relationship with a person who has low self esteem/worth?

slant said:
Isn't it a little fucked up to engage with someone on the condition that you believe they'll become different?
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Isn't it a little fucked up to assume a person won't change over time?

Relationships happen/form generally because two people meet at a place of commonality, whatever that means for them.
So then, it's not the question of "will they become different" but rather, will you both be able to adapt to change.
 
Wyote said:
Isn't a little fucked up to assume a person won't change over time?

Relationships happen/form generally because two people meet at a place of commonality, whatever that means for them.
So then, it's not the question of "will they become different" but rather, will you both be able to adapt to change.
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I don't think people should change as the result of other people; only their own inner sense of development and growth.

To change for the benefit of others is unhealthy from my perspective.
 
slant said:
It's people pleasing and codependent. I was always under the impression those things were unhealthy; am I mistaken?
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Codependency is bad when it interferes with your own basic functionalities or personal endeavors.
Society is built on smaller incremental levels of codependency, which is fine. There are benefits.
It's a balance.
 
As a person who in my childhood had all my thoughts and feelings and desires ripped away from me for the benefit and pleasure of my mother, it's difficult for me to tolerate codependency as I fall into old patterns and become a shell of a person. I prefer to avoid it and have healthier relationship where we don't need each other but instead choose each other's company.
 
slant said:
I prefer to avoid it and have healthier relationship where we don't need each other but instead choose each other's company.
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Most healthy relationships function this way. It's a choice people make, over and over again.
Rather than some sort of illusion people build up where they are bound together. That usually leads to disaster.
But even through making the choice repeatedly, there is some vague notion of codependency that is built from that action over time.
 
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Wyote said:
Most healthy relationships function this way. It's a choice people make, over and over again.
Rather than some sort of illusion people build up where they are bound together. That usually leads to disaster.
But even through making the choice repeatedly, there is some vague notion of codependency that is built from that action over time.
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I think the term you mean is interdependency, which is very different from codependency
 
slant said:
This is something that's been on my mind lately and I'm curious to hear your thoughts.

Before I get into it: I want to acknowledge that everyone is a work in progress. All of us have struggles with our self esteem and sense of self worth, it's something that has to be built from the inside and that's a process. Some of us have more trouble with it than others because of the way we were raised or traumatic conditioning we've accepted.

As a person who used to struggle with low self worth/esteem and has gradually built that within myself by using self love, self compassion and accepting my fundamental flaws of being human, I am easily able to recognize my old self hating behavior in other people.

I have worked really hard to build a life that I enjoy and develop myself. I find that people with low self esteem/worth can sometimes be drawn in my my encouraging, optimistic energy and philosophy of life. In truth part of how I've been able to recover from my own trauma is being surrendered by a community of loving and supportive people that I've learned from.

Initially, I was too dependent upon these people for approval and was using them to build my own self worth. I'd say about 3 months in, I was finally able to break free of this trap and seek internal validation. I still struggle with it from time to time but I am aware of it and actively seeking to prevent it so it really isn't as much of an issue as it used to be.

However...

I am beginning to notice a lot of people who also struggle with low self worth and self esteem flocking to me. In the beginning of these relationships it is a positive interaction; I feel good sharing information about my journey and this other person taking inspiration from it. Quickly though I find these people can become overly dependent on my approval and seeking my validation. I start to set boundaries with these people in response. Sometimes that goes well, other times it doesn't.

Admittedly, because I relate to low self worth or esteem, I can fail to set boundaries when I need to. Or I set them and the other person reacts badly and it turns into a point of contention. I understand what it's like to be in the headspace, but i know I'm not able to fix them, either.

These types of relationships seem unhealthy to me but I am struggling to understand what would be healthier, or what the misstep is here. It's an emerging pattern and I'm trying to understand it.
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In my estimation the doctor cannot date the patient. If the other person is not as developed as you are they will drag you down trying to get up. It's best to build a relationship that is already on the same ground. With someone who knows their own self worth. They won't be looking to take yours. We end up with what we put up with.
 
efromm said:
In my estimation the doctor cannot date the patient. If the other person is not as developed as you are they will drag you down trying to get up. It's best to build a relationship that is already on the same ground. With someone who knows their own self worth. They won't be looking to take yours. We end up with what we put up with.
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This is what I'm feeling like

That these people are bringing me down.

They're good people but they need to work on themselves before I can have a healthy relationship with them
 
slant said:
They're good people but they need to work on themselves before I can have a healthy relationship with them
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Or vice versa
Starker-Verstand.gif

I feel like this thread is beginning to go in circles. I'm sorry about your history and the consequential attitudes that formed around dependency. But in my view your attempt to avoid reliving your past has only created a mindset that is arguably nearly as unhealthy as the one you try to avoid succumbing to again.
All good relationships, platonic or otherwise, (as @Wyote said) form some sort of dependency. Call it inter or co, to my mind the difference is arbritary. All friendships form it, and romantic ones especially. It's a testament of the bond between two people - to try to avoid it is to risk an isolated and lonely life. Other than that I don't know what else can be said without repeating points already made.

Plus I thought I'd just use this reply to give credit to @Deleted member 16771 ' earlier point regarding the issue of a consumerist narrative to relations. Spot on
 
Rit4lin said:
Or vice versa
Starker-Verstand.gif

I feel like this thread is beginning to go in circles. I'm sorry about your history and the consequential attitudes that formed around dependency. But in my view your attempt to avoid reliving your past has only created a mindset that is arguably nearly as unhealthy as the one you try to avoid succumbing to again.
All good relationships, platonic or otherwise, (as @Wyote said) form some sort of dependency. Call it inter or co, to my mind the difference is arbritary. All friendships form it, and romantic ones especially. It's a testament of the bond between two people - to try to avoid it is to risk an isolated and lonely life. Other than that I don't know what else can be said without repeating points already made.

Plus I thought I'd just use this reply to give credit to @Deleted member 16771 ' earlier point regarding the issue of a consumerist narrative to relations. Spot on
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I have friendships that don't feel this way to me that I'm comfortable with. There's just a few friendships, more recent ones, that rub me wrong and I was trying to figure out if they're salvageable or not.
 
slant said:
It's not the dependency that bothers me....

It's the low self worth and low self esteem behavior these people have.
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For me they're both the same (if anyone disagrees feel free to voice it). You can't have an issue with the 'behaviour' of people with low self-esteem without having an issue with the intrinsic dependent attitudes they form towards you. As someone pointed out earlier in the thread, when someone sees another as more emotionally capable and confident then they generally gravitate towards them and see them as an example to aspire to. In some cases yes, they feel you have good enough relations to feel comfortable approaching you for more direct and personal advice and help. But this is where it falls to you on how to go forward.

If you don't think you're able to support them in the way they would like, then just flat out tell them from the beginning - just don't be surprised at the distance afterwards.
 
Rit4lin said:
For me they're both the same (if anyone disagrees feel free to voice it). You can't have an issue with the 'behaviour' of people with low self-esteem without having an issue with the intrinsic dependent attitudes they form towards you. As someone pointed out earlier in the thread, when someone sees another as more emotionally capable and confident then they generally gravitate towards them and see them as an example to aspire to. In some cases yes, they feel you have good enough relations to feel comfortable approaching you for more direct and personal advice and help. But this is where it falls to you on how to go forward.

If you don't think you're able to support them in the way they would like, then just flat out tell them from the beginning - just don't be surprised at the distance afterwards.
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Hmm. I just don't prescribe to this view. Interesting though thanks for your perspective.
 
slant said:
It's not the dependency that bothers me....

It's the low self worth and low self esteem behavior these people have.
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Are they on a path to improvement?

If its just a friendship, you're ties aren't quite so emotional (sort of - plantonic I mean) so its a matter of do they just lean on you to make them feel better or are they taking steps to improve their lives.

Are they learning skills. Do they have a plan to get into shape. Have they charted a career path.

If they are just sitting at home expecting you to feel sorry for them then its not unreasonable to cut these people off.

However if they aspire to be better, but just aren't there yet, give them time to advance their plans and if they are true to their word and actual advance then they're worth keeping, but if they make grand gestures and statements but never act on them then they probably never will.

Also if they have serious mental conditions well, there's only so much you can do and so many individuals you can care for at a single time. You can chose whther you have the resources to support the individual or not but its a lot to ask so I don't blame people who can't do that. Its not everyone's strength.
 
ReasonEnduring said:
Are they on a path to improvement?

If its just a friendship, you're ties aren't quite so emotional (sort of - plantonic I mean) so its a matter of do they just lean on you to make them feel better or are they taking steps to improve their lives.

Are they learning skills. Do they have a plan to get into shape. Have they charted a career path.

If they are just sitting at home expecting you to feel sorry for them then its not unreasonable to cut these people off.

However if they aspire to be better, but just aren't there yet, give them time to advance their plans and if they are true to their word and actual advance then they're worth keeping, but if they make grand gestures and statements but never act on them then they probably never will.

Also if they have serious mental conditions well, there's only so much you can do and so many individuals you can care for at a single time. You can chose whther you have the resources to support the individual or not but its a lot to ask so I don't blame people who can't do that. Its not everyone's strength.
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These are good points.

I think I just need to express myself more authentically with these people. Because of their low self esteem and self worth I've tried to be more understanding with them, but that's unnecessary and arguably limiting for them. I need to just treat them the same way I would treat people with regular self esteem. No extra attention or allowing them to get away with bad behavior. Just be myself. Express what I think and feel without worrying about how it might impact their self esteem. Obviously, as many of you have already figured out, this has more to do with me than it does with them.

That's always the way it is with perceived by problems. It's less to do with the other person's behavior as much as it is how we're choosing to respond (or failing to respond) to it.

And with these relationships... I'm the one on the fence about them. I haven't decided what I want and what it is exactly that's bothering me about these people and what to do about it. It's a very confusing place to be in and I'm not sure if the context of this thread even makes sense anymore.

I always make these threads thinking I'm discussing one thing and then realizing halfway through that I'm actually trying to talk about something completely different.

Which, again,

Many of you already picked up on.

Human relationships are so confusing to navigate :/
 
slant said:
These are good points.

I think I just need to express myself more authentically with these people. Because of their low self esteem and self worth I've tried to be more understanding with them, but that's unnecessary and arguably limiting for them. I need to just treat them the same way I would treat people with regular self esteem. No extra attention or allowing them to get away with bad behavior. Just be myself. Express what I think and feel without worrying about how it might impact their self esteem. Obviously, as many of you have already figured out, this has more to do with me than it does with them.

That's always the way it is with perceived by problems. It's less to do with the other person's behavior as much as it is how we're choosing to respond (or failing to respond) to it.

And with these relationships... I'm the one on the fence about them. I haven't decided what I want and what it is exactly that's bothering me about these people and what to do about it. It's a very confusing place to be in and I'm not sure if the context of this thread even makes sense anymore.

I always make these threads thinking I'm discussing one thing and then realizing halfway through that I'm actually trying to talk about something completely different.

Which, again,

Many of you already picked up on.

Human relationships are so confusing to navigate :/
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Indeed they are.

And yes, treating them the same sounds a sensible approach.

Hope you figure out your answer. Context is everything and only you have that.
 
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