Is self interest the best or only basis for morality?

SovereignGrace said:
What has been demonstrated over and over again in this thread is the utter confusion and blindness and lack of reason humankind has possessed since the Fall.

Ever since the fall of Adam in the Garden of Eden, when sin and death entered, humans have lacked true discernment.

Even the most brilliant thinkers of all time had this glaring inability. They simply cannot discern moral truth from error.

How foolish and absurd it is to claim that morality is subjective. Without some sort of unchanging, objective basis, any argument you make about morality will be circular reasoning.

Furthermore, God is, himself, the standard of all morality, truth, reason, logic, order, etc. So, in spite of humanity's futile attempts to concoct various systems of subjective morality, they are all self-contradictory and utterly absurd. Particularly the idea of morality based on self-interest. That's just a euphemism for "selfishness."
What hypocrisy! What a foolish masquerade "enlightened self-interest" is!

Whatever so-called "morality" one possesses, if it's not based on faith in Jesus Christ, and in conformity to his sovereign will and purpose, it's just as evil in God's sight as demon worship. Plain and simple.

No matter how "religious" a person is, no matter how "moral" he thinks he is, unless God gives him life and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, his so-called "morality" will take him straight to Hell.

WHY?

Because God rightfully demands PERFECTION. Even our best works are just filthy rags to God. He can't love us or accept us by our sinful works.

Only the God-man, the Lord Jesus Christ, obeyed PERFECTLY, the will of God in ALL things.
Only the God-man, the Lord Jesus Christ, could die as a substitute for sinners, and be raised again to life for sinners.
And only the God-man, the Lord Jesus Christ, can give life and faith to a sinner.

And his perfect righteousness is accounted to every sinner for whom he died, and to every sinner who has been given faith in him.

God has purposed the redemption of all those who come to Christ, seeking mercy and forgiveness of sin.

That is the truth, and if God is pleased to save you, he will make that truth KNOWN to YOU. And you will bow to, and believe on, Jesus Christ.

But if he leaves you to your own devices, and he most certainly has the RIGHT to, you will perish in your sins and go to Hell.

Therefore, repent of your "morality" and come to Jesus Christ, by faith, and receive a full pardon for sin.

He said:

"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out." --John 6:37

May God be pleased to give you faith his Son, that you might know him and enjoy him forever.
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I just saw this post. Its amazing and so true. I coudn't say this so well by myself. Thanks for having the courage to post this. :)
 
say what said:
Again, this is your perspective- it's also a perspective that only a third of the world believes in. The other ~70% believe in a vast number of other things. The fact that you're basing morality on YOUR idea of God, is, in itself, subjective.

YOUR God might be objective. But that doesn't mean morality for everyone is determined by YOUR God.
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Hi [MENTION=9401]LucyJr[/MENTION]

I was wondering if you could comment on my reply to your post. I would be interested to hear what you think :)
 
say what said:
Hi [MENTION=9401]LucyJr[/MENTION]

I was wondering if you could comment on my reply to your post. I would be interested to hear what you think :)
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Sure. You said this:
Again, this is your perspective- it's also a perspective that only a third of the world believes in. The other ~70% believe in a vast number of other things. The fact that you're basing morality on YOUR idea of God, is, in itself, subjective.

YOUR God might be objective. But that doesn't mean morality for everyone is determined by YOUR God.
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And your stance, that my perspective is subkective, is subjective or not?
In other words, by your definition, everything what you said to me its also subjective, therefore whithout any value in a absolute sense.
You can speak relativism, but you can not live it!
 
LucyJr said:
Sure. You said this:

And your stance, that my perspective is subkective, is subjective or not?
In other words, by your definition, everything what you said to me its also subjective, therefore whithout any value in a absolute sense.
You can speak relativism, but you can not live it!
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Instead of deconstruction my opinion, why don't you share yours.

How is you believing in your idea of God, and basing your morality on your idea of what your God wants, not subjective?

Don't just pick apart what I said...try to actually answer the question with your own opinion.
 
say what said:
Instead of deconstruction my opinion, why don't you share yours.

How is you believing in your idea of God, and basing your morality on your idea of what your God wants, not subjective?

Don't just pick apart what I said...try to actually answer the question with your own opinion.
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Because it can not be subjective.
Is true or false, but not subjective.
Subjective is something of humans prefferences, like if I would like vanilla, instead of chocolate. That's subjectivism.
Matters of truth, or truth claims are not subjective or objective. Are true or false.

EDIT: Truth is objective by its very nature tough.
 
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LucyJr said:
Because it can not be subjective.
Is true or false, but not subjective.
Subjective is something of humans prefferences, like if I would like vanilla, instead of chocolate. That's subjectivism.
Matters of truth, or truth claims are not subjective or objective. Are true or false.
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But it is your belief in Christianity and Christ that you're basing your morality on.

Christianity is only one of many world beliefs.

If you suggest that there is only one true objective truth- how do you know Christianity, out of the many many beliefs is the correct 'true' one? Could it not be another belief that is actually the 'truth'? Making Christianity and your morality wrong?
 
say what said:
But it is your belief in Christianity and Christ that you're basing your morality on.

Christianity is only one of many world beliefs.

If you suggest that there is only one true objective truth- how do you know Christianity, out of the many many beliefs is the correct 'true' one? Could it not be another belief that is actually the 'truth'? Making Christianity and your morality wrong?
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Yes, exactly.
how do you know Christianity, out of the many many beliefs is the correct 'true' one?
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I believe and I know.
Could it not be another belief that is actually the 'truth'?Making Christianity and your morality wrong?
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yes, it could. But from my perspective, I know where the truth is, and I don't think any other religion has the revealed truth like Christianisty does. Some of the world religions may be closer to truth, some further.

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You know where the problem lays? Into the relativists field. Those who are saying everything is truth.
Needless to say, those people are deceiving themselfs more than anybody else.
 
LucyJr said:
Yes, exactly.

I believe and I know.

yes, it could. But from my perspective, I know where the truth is, and I don't think any other religion has the revealed truth like Christianisty does. Some of the world religions may be closer to truth, some further.

...................................................
You know where the problem lays? Into the relativists field. Those who are saying everything is truth.
Needless to say, those people are deceiving themselfs more than anybody else.
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Thank you! :)
 
I've not really based morality on self interest.

No, self interest is what causes me to break it. I worked black magic today and that is something I have refrained from doing for years because it is selfish.

Morality is really the long road to self interest. Sure, being prosocial can contribute to things which benefit you. Or if you believe in eternal reward, there's that too. But otherwise that's taking the long road to get what you want when there's more efficient ways.

But of course I'm referring to self morality, your own personal code. Not these fake laws that are pressed upon you by others. If you're not believing it in your heart and are just doing it because somebody told you so then that's another thing entirely.
 
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