Is the Confederate Flag racist?

Skarekrow said:
To fight what?
Explain yourself now.

Everyone has the right to be a total douchebag asshole racist piece of shit alive….but NO ONE has the right to take a life over it.
I don’t care what back-woods idiotic banging your head into a brick wall again and again mentality the south has, it doesn’t make it right.
You should quit and STFU while you have some remaining face.
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We should just assume he means that shooting up churches is what they do. I suppose that'd be sufficiently ignorant of us. Ignorance has to be what he wants since he refuses to explain his cryptic message and asks us to figure it out.

Obviously he wants us to reach the wrong conclusion so he can confirm how ignorant we are. Therefore we're not getting any help.
 
Pride is one of the seven deadly sins - something to think about.

Here is some interesting information:

9 Reasons People Probably Want The Confederate Flag Taken Down

The Confederate flag has been a source of controversy in South Carolina for a long time. Even before pictures of suspected Charleston church shooter Dylann Roof posing with it turned up online, massive protests in 2000 had led to its removal from the top of the State House — only to find it relocated to a Confederate war memorial nearby, where it’s still padlocked in place.

While it can’t be moved from state grounds without a majority vote by the legislature — South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley is working on that — major U.S. retailers seem to have other plans. In just the last two days alone, Walmart and Amazon have already pulled the Confederate flag from their shelves. Separately, a petition to remove the flag has garnered nearly 500,000 signatures.

The debate is still raging on both sides, from critics who say it’s a painful symbol to proponents who argue it just represents the state’s heritage. We decided to dig deeper into the origins of the flag and why upsets so many.

It was originally designed with white on it — to symbolize white supremacy

William Thompson, the designer of the original “Stainless Banner” version of the Confederate flag, was quoted explaining his motivation for creating it in a book from the 1870s.

“As a people,” he said, “we are fighting to maintain the heaven ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause.” He also said he hoped the flag would “be hailed by the civilized world as the white man’s flag.”

Contrary to popular belief, the Confederate flag wasn’t actually the official flag of the South during the Civil War
<> on April 9, 2015 in Appomattox, Virginia.

During the Civil War — which ended slavery when the North prevailed — the Southern states, fighting as the Confederate States of America, used three different flags (including the “Stainless Banner”). But none of those designs were the flag we now think of as the Confederate flag. That was actually used as the battle flag of General Robert E. Lee’s Northern Virginia Army. The modern Confederate flag “only came to be the flag most prominently associated with the Confederacy, after the South lost the war.”
The Confederate flag wasn’t flown over South Carolina’s Capitol until 1962 — when it was put up in response to the Civil Rights movement

Raising the flag beginning in 1962 was meant to make a bold statement against the Civil Rights movement.
South Carolina was opposed to desegregation, and as reported in Mother Jones, “The flag’s origins [at the Capitol] are a remnant of segregation, not the Civil War.”

Some pro-flag supporters claim the Civil War was really about states’ rights — not slavery.

Many modern proponents of the flag view it as a symbol of state independence from the federal government. But in the book “The Confederate Battle Flag: America’s Most Embattled Emblem,” multiple southern Civil War veterans made it very clear that “state rights” really meant “rights to own slaves.”

One of those veterans, Ed Baxter, said in 1889, “In a word, the South determined to fight for her property right in slaves.” Another, Colonel John S. Mosby, wrote in 1894, “I’ve never heard of any other cause [for the war] than slavery.”

The flag has frequently been flown by members of the Ku Klux Klan
Ku Klux Klan Holds Annual Gathering In Tennessee

While it isn’t the hate group’s official flag, the KKK and other racist hate groups have often used the Confederate flag as a symbol of white supremacy.
Texas won’t be putting the flag on license plates anymore

On June 18, the Supreme Court ruled that Texas can refuse to issue specialty license plates that feature the Confederate flag without being in violation of the First Amendment. The case originally went to court when a Confederate group requested the license plates and the Texas Department of Motor Vehicles denied them, saying “that a significant portion of the public associates the Confederate flag with organizations advocating expressions of hate directed toward people or groups that is demeaning to those people or groups.”
Some organizations boycott South Carolina because of the flag

The National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) boycotts both South Carolina and Mississippi, the only other state that still flies the Confederate flag over their state capitol. Writing for Slate last spring, Josh Voorhees said, “In 2001, the NCAA imposed a ban on either state hosting post-season sporting events … as long as the flags continued to fly, and neither it nor the states have budged since.” The NAACP has long encouraged boycotting the state because of the flag, too.

Country singer Jonathan Byrd has been speaking out about the flag…

In a much-shared Facebook post, the singer, who’s from North Carolina, wrote, “It doesn’t threaten your heritage. You take off your hat for a lady. You clean the shit off your boots before you walk into a church. It’s just a matter of respect. Admit that your perspective might feel right and be wrong. Take it down, South Carolina.”

…and so have Republicans

Republicans are historically pro-flag, but Rick Perry, Jeb Bush and Mitt Romney have all advocated for the flag to be taken down. Romney called it a “symbol of racial hatred,” and Bush told South Carolina to “do the right thing.” Many Republicans still maintain that it’s ultimately up to the state to decide, though.

What do you think about the flag? Should South Carolina take it down? Share your thoughts with us in the comments section.

kristina marusic
Rabble-rouser, carbivore, logophile.
@kristinasaurusr
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There is NO NEED to take pride in every part of your history, just because your ancestors may have died fighting for a certain cause. Germans today (except for the extreme right neonazi groups..) have completely renounced their past and have found new ways to be proud of their culture and ancestry without being nationalistic and celebrating their traditional "way of life" because that way of life used to include, er, murdering Jews. Why can't Southerners (well, all Americans) today let go of their pride in a racist past? Let's not call it anything other than it is.

Mississippi's original position on the Civil War, in their declaration of secession: "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery—the greatest material interest of the world."

Louisiana's statement of secession: "The people of the slave holding States are bound together by the same necessity and determination to preserve African slavery."

The secessionists believed ending slavery would mean a loss of property as well as a loss of white supremacy - and thus a loss of their way of life. Is this the "way of life" Southerners are trying to preserve and take pride in when they display the Confederate flag? Because you cannot disconnect the flag from its despicably racist origins. And even if you could, there's no denying the flag is offensive to countless people. If you are truly not a racist, then you'd be ashamed to display a flag that so obviously upsets and threatens so many people--even if you still somehow believe its origins are benign.
 
Proud of killing off the red man?

united-states-v-colombia-round-20150623-010429-539.jpg


Torching the South?
united-states-v-colombia-round-20150623-010349-340.jpg


Why does the flag mean so much to Americans? Geronimo died in Ft. Sill in 1909. Place it on the moon. Fly it on our ships.

And so it starts: by IAN HANCHETT24 Jun 2015
Louis Farrakhan stated “We need to put the American flag down. Because we’ve caught as much hell under that as the Confederate flag” in remarks before the Metropolitan AME Church in Washington, DC on Wednesday first reported by DC’s WMAL.
Farrakhan said, “White folks march with you because they don’t want you upsetting the city, they don’t give a damn about them nine.”
He added that when the police took suspected shooter Dylann Roof to Burger King they were saying “You did a good job. Kill all them [bleep.]”
Later, he declared, “I don’t know what the hell the fight is about over the Confederate flag. We need to put the American flag down. Because we’ve caught as much hell under that as the Confederate flag,” comments that were meant with cheers and applause. He added, “Who are we fighting today? It’s the people that carry the American flag.”

It's never enough.
 
sprinkles said:
We should just assume he means that shooting up churches is what they do. I suppose that'd be sufficiently ignorant of us. Ignorance has to be what he wants since he refuses to explain his cryptic message and asks us to figure it out.

Obviously he wants us to reach the wrong conclusion so he can confirm how ignorant we are. Therefore we're not getting any help.
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He really likes being as cryptic as possible…but personally I think he just likes to drink too much and stops making sense after a certain time of the day.
There is sundowners syndrome to consider too - http://www.webmd.com/alzheimers/guide/sundowning-causes-symptoms-treatments

Of course I jest (and I sincerely apologize to all those people ((including myself)) who has ever had the challenging task of taking care of such a person…it’s fucking hard, good job!).

It’s a generational mentality that will continue to vanish until people will look back and laugh that this was even a thing that upset people.
 
just me said:
Proud of killing off the red man?



Torching the South?


Why does the flag mean so much to Americans? Geronimo died in Ft. Sill in 1909. Place it on the moon. Fly it on our ships.

And so it starts: by IAN HANCHETT24 Jun 2015
Louis Farrakhan stated “We need to put the American flag down. Because we’ve caught as much hell under that as the Confederate flag” in remarks before the Metropolitan AME Church in Washington, DC on Wednesday first reported by DC’s WMAL.
Farrakhan said, “White folks march with you because they don’t want you upsetting the city, they don’t give a damn about them nine.”
He added that when the police took suspected shooter Dylann Roof to Burger King they were saying “You did a good job. Kill all them [bleep.]”
Later, he declared, “I don’t know what the hell the fight is about over the Confederate flag. We need to put the American flag down. Because we’ve caught as much hell under that as the Confederate flag,” comments that were meant with cheers and applause. He added, “Who are we fighting today? It’s the people that carry the American flag.”

It's never enough.
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Does the patriotic symbol of a lost war really mean that much to you?
To take down the symbols of racism or that are associated…or even vaguely related to racism will not diminish the memory of anyone who died in that war on either side.
Quit making this into something it isn't
No…just as my previous post says…no, I am not proud that the US fucked over the Native Americans, and the Spanish, Mexico, England, France, Canada, wow…I could literally go on forever…who would have thunk?

I served in the military…don’t even get me started on patriotism.
Want to burn the flag? Do it.
This is the freedom that young men went to fight for in past wars.
Now we fight wars to form an oil hegemony.
Whatever…fly the flag of idiocy.
 
just me said:
Proud of killing off the red man?
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This is fallacious and shows that you can't defend your own argument.

1. Hypocrisy of someone else does not exonerate your side.
2. That flag is the flag of our current nation so it's in use, but a lot of people hate it regardless.
3. The flag that we're talking about in this thread is not even the Confederate national flag, it's a battle flag. Are you planning to do battle any time soon?
 
Moreover the flag we have now is not even the same fucking flag that was used back then anyway.
 
mississippi-abolishes-slavery.png
 
[video=youtube;X1UZWXKEhV8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&amp;v=X1UZWXKEhV8[/video]​
 
[video=youtube;z1EmVNxrZgE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&amp;v=z1EmVNxrZgE[/video]​
 
[MENTION=5045]Skarekrow[/MENTION]

Not to mention that there's three actual Confederate flags and that flag isn't even one of them and never was. It's not even the fucking Stars and Bars - THIS is the Stars and Bars

25uruih.jpg


It's pretty sad when people bitch about heritage but can't even get the name of their own fucking flags right.
 
sprinkles said:
@Skarekrow

Not to mention that there's three actual Confederate flags and that flag isn't even one of them and never was. It's not even the fucking Stars and Bars - THIS is the Stars and Bars

25uruih.jpg


It's pretty sad when people bitch about heritage but can't even get the name of their own fucking flags right.
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...and here is wisdom. Pretty sad when people bitch about it.
 
La Sagna said:
Pride is one of the seven deadly sins - something to think about.

Here is some interesting information:
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Republicans have historically been pro flag.... this is the only statement in the article that makes me think its full of crap. I was going along with it until I saw that.
So lets get some historical facts out of the way shall we? It was Republican support and work in congress that ended slavery. Democrats did not want anything to do with ending it.

So I would like to see some information that specifically outlays exactly how Republicans have supported the confederate flag.
 
Eventhorizon said:
Republicans have historically been pro flag.... this is the only statement in the article that makes me think its full of crap. I was going along with it until I saw that.
So lets get some historical facts out of the way shall we? It was Republican support and work in congress that ended slavery. Democrats did not want anything to do with ending it.

So I would like to see some information that specifically outlays exactly how Republicans have supported the confederate flag.
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The parties have basically switched sides twice since then.
- http://www.livescience.com/34241-democratic-republican-parties-switch-platforms.html
- http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...tates-switch-to-the-democrats-and-vice-versa/

What the hell is pro-flag anyhow?
Are you referring to it not being disrespected or treated in a certain way?

I never understood it though I was taught both by my Dad and the USCG how a flag is to be properly handled and treated, and I understand the symbolism that it represents….but those are notions of patriotism being projected onto a symbol by people no different than anyone else around the world.
I get it….but I think it’s silly.
 
[video=youtube;V6SOdFrvWpI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&amp;v=V6SOdFrvWpI[/video]​
 
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