[PUG] Israel belongs to the Jews/Palestinians?

[Flavus Aquila]

Historically, lands belong to whoever can conquer them.

The problem would probably be settled if outside countries and foreign allies/money was cut off from both sides and they would just fight it out - not to destruction; but to truce or conditional surrender.

The problem is that Israel was created by the decision of a comittee after WWII and not as a result of a conflict and truce agreed upon by the Palestinians [and Christians].

 

[ENTroP]

Historically, lands belong to whoever can conquer them.

The problem would probably be settled if outside countries and foreign allies/money was cut off from both sides and they would just fight it out - not to destruction; but to truce or conditional surrender.

The problem is that Israel was created by the decision of a comittee after WWII and not as a result of a conflict and truce agreed upon by the Palestinians [and Christians].

7 day war wasn't conquering enough? If you think Israel is bad, look at its neighbors... Would a Sharia state really be better?

 

[just me]

Historically, lands belong to whoever can conquer them.

The problem would probably be settled if outside countries and foreign allies/money was cut off from both sides and they would just fight it out - not to destruction; but to truce or conditional surrender.

The problem is that Israel was created by the decision of a comittee after WWII and not as a result of a conflict and truce agreed upon by the Palestinians [and Christians].

Actually....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab-Israeli_War

The fighting in the tunnels was left out, along with many other details. Please read the book mentioned previously if one thinks this link was interesting. It was an eye opener for me.

 

[idanl10]

I hate that argument about who does the land belongs.
I think the the Palestines are misreable, not becuase of Israel but because of the Hamas that rules there.
Everybody desrved a country.
Btw, Israel isn't a pile of sand, and we don't ride on camals
There's a lot of green, and a lot of technology anf Hi-tech.

 

[just me]

I hate that argument about who does the land belongs.
I think the the Palestines are misreable, not becuase of Israel but because of the Hamas that rules there.
Everybody desrved a country.
Btw, Israel isn't a pile of sand, and we don't ride on camals
There's a lot of green, and a lot of technology anf Hi-tech.

Well, hello there.....and welcome from just me.

 

[Melito]

I only want to establish on point.
I read in some posts that since the Jews has the economical and the military means to conquer Isreal then it belongs to them. I completely disagree. Having the power to take something does not makes it yours.
It is true that Jews were there first, but then the Palestinians came along and work hard to make of that place a country for them. what right does the Israeli government have to destroy all that the Palestinians made and throw them out of their country?
Lets simplify the situation to make it easier to understand. lets say a group of small kids worked very hard to make a sand castle, they are still not done yet when the gang of big muscled guys comes along and toss the small kids away and clam that this part of the beach is theirs and that castle is theirs also.
Are we to say that they are right? it is their just because they have the power to toss people around? I personally don't think so.
The same thing applies to the Israeli/ Palestinian conflict.

now that I established that point, I believe that the "Holy Land" should becomes as it is said in the poll "sacret Vatican" where all religions can coexist. Actually, that is what was going on before the Israeli government to control.

 

[54192&#cmy]

My question is where do the Jews belong? And where is their native lands historically? I could make the argument that everyone in the United States should leave because we stole the land from it's rightful inhabitants. The Native American. If the Jews have no nation or point of origin where do they belong? Were does anyone one belong anymore.

 

[Faye]

I think we should just make everyone move out and not let any humans live there at all for 500 years.

Okay really, I neither know nor care who the land belongs to. I support polices to my benefit, and if it doesn't concern me, well then it is just another terrible conflict in the world.

 

[just me]

My question is where do the Jews belong? And where is their native lands historically? I could make the argument that everyone in the United States should leave because we stole the land from it's rightful inhabitants. The Native American. If the Jews have no nation or point of origin where do they belong? Were does anyone one belong anymore.

Excellent observation.

 

[Morgain]

My question is where do the Jews belong? And where is their native lands historically? I could make the argument that everyone in the United States should leave because we stole the land from it's rightful inhabitants. The Native American. If the Jews have no nation or point of origin where do they belong? Were does anyone one belong anymore.

yes that is the core of the problem. People move around the globe all the time, they settle, adapt and eventually blend in and call the new land there home. Americans moved, settled and call America their home now and the move only happened a few hundred years ago. The Jews spread out much much longer ago, why don't they call there new country home? They are spread over the entire planet but always stick to there own "clan", they don't blend in and they hardly marry with outsiders. At least that is how it is in Europe. They never call their new land home, because home is and will always be Israel. Why is that, I wonder?

But since they where so violently discriminated during the war, I think the call from home and the need to reunite became louder and louder and since all other nations pitied them, they where given half of their old home despite the fact that there where other people living there. They took the half and the other half as well, chasing away as many people as possible and locked down the ones that stayed. I can not but wonder why a "clan" (I don't know a better word) that has been discriminated so badly would do the same to an other "clan" that had no guilt in the matter...

 

[the]

Israel belongs to whoever can take it.

 

[the]

she follows some Belgian/Dutch people who converted to judaism and are now living in Israel. My God they don't even belong to "the people of God"

In some circles certain European countries are considered to have a significant amount of Hebrew blood in its "origional" (for lack of a better term) citizens. I could get you a few links if you are interested. Most significantly England is supposed to be key in prophecy due to it having a king/queen dealie goin on. Disclaimer: I dont necessarily adhire to that view.

 

[muir]

The US funds the conflict: http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/cost_of_israel.html

Billions of dollars of the US taxpayers money goes every year to Israel

If the US would stop that flow of money and weapons to Israel it could force negotiation and compromise VERY EASILY

The US are the wellspring of the trouble in the middle east....the rest of the world knows this, which is why the US is unpopular abroad

However the Israeli lobby is EXTREMELY influential not only in the US but in the UK as well. The following documentary discusses that: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCL6WdnuNp4"]YouTube - Peace, Propaganda & The Promised Land {Part 1}[/ame]

 

[Morgain]

that is a good video. Is true we don't really understand the suppression the Palestinians have to live with every day.

I tried to imagine how I would feel when people who have a perfect good living elsewhere in the world would come to my country and claim it to be there country. It doesn't matter that my family has lived here for generations, it is apparently not my country so we have to move out and the whole world agrees on this. I grew up in a refugees camp and have no idea of how my life could have been. My parents still morn for their lost home, still carrying the key of their house in the hope they can return. Nobody can find a job and we have to live from day to day trying to manage. I'm not allowed to go to the store. When I have to go to the hospital I have to go through 3 checkpoints and there is no way to know whether I'll be allowed through or not. I live in a jail and don't know what I have done to deserve this. My children are born in this miserable situation and have no education, no future. For 40 years nothing has changed, there is no hope and the whole world agrees on this.

I think I would blow myself up in the middle of the street

 

[just me]

that is a good video. Is true we don't really understand the suppression the Palestinians have to live with every day.

I tried to imagine how I would feel when people who have a perfect good living elsewhere in the world would come to my country and claim it to be there country. It doesn't matter that my family has lived here for generations, it is apparently not my country so we have to move out and the whole world agrees on this. I grew up in a refugees camp and have no idea of how my life could have been. My parents still morn for their lost home, still carrying the key of their house in the hope they can return. Nobody can find a job and we have to live from day to day trying to manage. I'm not allowed to go to the store. When I have to go to the hospital I have to go through 3 checkpoints and there is no way to know whether I'll be allowed through or not. I live in a jail and don't know what I have done to deserve this. My children are born in this miserable situation and have no education, no future. For 40 years nothing has changed, there is no hope and the whole world agrees on this.

I think I would blow myself up in the middle of the street

Don't see yourself doing that.

 

[muir]

Morgain

I know exactly what you mean. As i rewatched that documentary yesterday I thought how angry I would be if it were my family and friends that were being: killed, imprisoned, beaten, humiliated and driven from their homes.

The Palestinians are often portrayed as crazy in the western media, but they are just filled with grief and anger. Who knows what one could be driven to under those circumstances