It's supposedly Constitutional, BUT

Trump's lawyers argued that it was not constitutional to impeach a president no longer in office..... Because the voters already had spoken and put him out of office... When the whole thing was built on Trump's lie of a stolen election that whipped up his base to "fight like hell or we won't have a country anymore" in the first place. His defense comes out and basically acknowledges it was all bullshit. His lawyers are going to throw the Trump followers who thought they were fighting to save America under the bus. Trump exploited his own supporters in a last ditch attempt to maintain power. He doesn't give a shit about anyone who voted for him and certainly not anyone he put under the very misguided impression they were on a mission to save the country. People are dead because they stormed the capitol for him. He rallied and assembled them there that day. He and his surrogates groomed them for it for months.

Anyway, it is constitutional to vote to convict him for inciting an insurrection when we should have been having a peaceful transfer of power. He broke his oath during his presidency doesn't matter if it was at the end. Why should he not be barred from running again? I don't think my taxes are being wasted on this even if Republicans will refuse to listen to and see the evidence and not convict him anyway. I think the case should be made for Americans. All the evidence should be compiled and presented. And what other court do you suggest he be tried in? He was impeached while president.

Personally I hope he is convicted because I think it sets a precedent to let him off easily given what he instigated. I don't think it will happen because the Republican party is a Trump cult now though and there aren't enough votes. But he should still be held accountable.
 
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The neocon establishment is making an example out of Trump. The message is - if you aren't one of us, if you don't abide by our goals and agendas you will not be allowed to hold office in this country.
 
Roses In The Vineyard said:
OK can we like uninstall the public education for a moment and take a long look at who really benefited from all this instead of just repeating the same old lines as clearly it was never in Trump's favor from the git go. I guess Reichstag Fire never rang a bell...
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Sounds like the same type argument that says the Twin Towers were an inside job that "really benefited" Bush's war on terrorism.
 
acd said:
His lawyers are going to throw the Trump followers who thought they were fighting to save America under the bus. Trump exploited his own supporters in a last ditch attempt to maintain power. He doesn't give a shit about anyone who voted for him and certainly not anyone who was under the very misguided impression they were on a mission from him to save the country. People are dead because they stormed the capitol for him. He rallied and assembled them there that day. He and his surrogates groomed them for it for months.
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acd said:
he should still be held accountable.
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^^^ this exactly

.............................
Going back to 2015-2016, Trump mentioned about "riots in the streets", and he planted the seeds in the minds of his followers from the get go. Guilty af.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna540516

So bodes my questions about a planned agenda of the Trump family/party long before he announced his canadicy to run for president.

Many forget at the onset of his running for office there were 16 republican candidates all vying for the office, including Ted Cruz! lol Where's Cruz now?!? IMHO, he, Cruz is an ass-sucking traitor and should face his own charges. A descendent of the Alamo my ass! He's a Yellow Coat sell his ass to the highest bidder type politician. Last I checked our electors voted for the people of their region and not for themselves and their cronies. Don't even get me stsrted about Giuliani........

And, what about party loyalty? Trump flip-flopped between parties for years, he changed back to republican because to run against Hillary, a democrat, he couldn't be a democrat. lol This only exemplifies his loyalty lies to himself and no other. He enjoys the chaos of conflict. He even threw his family to the wolves. Trump ain't nothing but a drama queen and a bad one at that. :tearsofjoy:

Bottomline is, when someone shows you in action who they are, believe them the first time. Given a second chance, Trump would succeed in selling America to the highest bidder. Which has been his agenda all along. Make America Great Again? We've always been great, that is until we started listening to self-agrandized assholes like Trump.

Thank goodness he won't get that second chance once they take his privilege to hold office away. He wouldn't even be able to run for Maralargo Dawgcatcher. :wink:
 
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So, from what I gather from all this? Our Senate and Congress are attempting something where the people cannot speak next term. That means to me? Our own government is spending our own money because they do not trust the people any longer.

So, WTF is next?
 
just me said:
HugeDiligentIvorybackedwoodswallow-small.gif


So, from what I gather from all this? Our Senate and Congress are attempting something where the people cannot speak next term. That means to me? Our own government is spending our own money because they do not trust the people any longer.

So, WTF is next?
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Pretty sure an impeachment procedure is rigidly codified into constitutional law. It's just not possible to conduct it through other means.

I speak as a foreigner here of course, but the level of distrust in US institutions seems to be very deep and pervasive, and that in itself is quite concerning.
 
Deleted member 16771 said:
Does any Republican voter here actually feel betrayed or embarrassed by Trump to any degree?
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Tangential, but I've wondered over the last four years what the Republican/conservative friends I see/talk to regularly in life have thought of Trump after all this time, and the sentiment in general seems to be one of embarrassment - that he was not the leader they hoped he might be. Granted, most of them still have their share of what I believe to be both valid and invalid criticisms of the Obama administration, but I have encountered very few people in real life that have a lot of admiration for him. He has fared very poorly in presidential scholar surveys for Republican candidates, especially compared to recent leaders like George W, George H.W., Reagan, Ford, and Nixon.

Reason said:
I don't think that the destruction of property was faked but the insurrection charge is hilarious. I don't think I could ever quit politics when it consistently stays so amusing.
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What's hilarious about an insurrection charge? Someone standing around the capitol taking a selfie should not be charged. However, someone attempting to get into a federal government with a weapon + ammunition or molotov cocktails... what exactly would you charge them with? Criminal trespassing? That would seem to be a more laughable charge.
 
I don't live in the USA but I have watched all of the proceedings so far, start to finish. The argument for impeachment, in my opinion is sound. I believe that the impeachment managers made a very fair case. People from the Republican side are acting like this is all just because they don't like Trump which is missing the point entirely. I don't even live there and I'm pretty disturbed about the massive disinformation campaign that has been going on for years about voter fraud, election stealing, "communism," etc. It all lead up to insurrectionists trying to "stop the steal" which was such a huge lie that had been created over months, if not years. You can't be having a President of the United States doing shit like that.

It goes beyond everything he said and tweeted leading up to January 6th, it also takes into account his behaviour on that day. This is what he wanted. If anyone actually looked at all of the evidence presented thus far (and more may still come after Trump's lawyers make their defense) I don't think anyone could deny that it's extremely damning.

EVEN IF he doesn't get convicted it's important for American people to actually see how they've been manipulated into Trump's cult the way that they have. It's extremely tragic for the USA that this is where things are at.
 
just me said:
Why can't our new government focus on our needs and security? If they want Trump tried, quit wasting our money and time with it.

Take him to court! Let the attorneys get paid for it. File a suit against him and see what the judge says. Bring your evidence to the courtroom. Stop wasting our tax dollars.

Vengeance is Mine, saith the Lord.
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I'm fine with the proceeding but sadly I expect nothing to come of it. Once this is over I hope to see good policies past like the public option for healthcare and student loan forgiveness.
 
noisebloom said:
What's hilarious about an insurrection charge? Someone standing around the capitol taking a selfie should not be charged. However, someone attempting to get into a federal government with a weapon + ammunition or molotov cocktails... what exactly would you charge them with? Criminal trespassing? That would seem to be a more laughable charge.
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It hinges on the idea that using the word "fight" means violence.
Definition of fight
(Entry 1 of 2)

intransitive verb

1a: to contend in battle or physical combat especially : to strive to overcome a person by blows or weapons :The soldiers fought bravely.
b: to engage in boxing: He will fight for the heavyweight title next month.
2: to put forth a determined effort: They were fighting to stay awake.

If there's two interpretations, and one is crazy whilst the other is totally normal and you're choosing to go with the crazy one. That's confirmation bias. People have been using fight to mean to struggle against for an eternity. As for the rioters at the capitol they really should have brought rifles and not selfie sticks if they were going to overthrow the government :tearsofjoy:. And yes, some people in the crowd had concealed carry firearms, but if you're going to take on the most powerfull military in the world, you would probably want to make sure 100 % of the crowd is armed.

I can't keep a straight face with this, the charge is ridiculous.
 
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