Jesus is pleated and other schizotypal thoughts.
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Kmal
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Give an example so I understand better
muir
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Consumerism only works if people keep desiring things. This means that people must not be happy with what they have, because if they are happy with what they have then they won't need to keep consuming things.
This means that insecure people who feel that something is missing in their life will make the best consumers, so it is in the interests of big business to make people feel insecure; they do this by posting images of perfect people in the media who people will then aspire to match in style, dress, behaviour etc
If you are not playing along with the consumerism game then the elites must find a new way to control you. The =y have found a very good way to do this in modern psychiatry.
Sure there are some people who might have something physiologically wrong with their brain but the vast majority of people experiencing negative emotions or anxiety are doing so because of the environment they are in.
For example a person might feel that they don't want to consume all the time and as a result they feel isolated within a culture that is all about consuming. This might make the person feel anxious or unhappy. If they go to a psychiatrist seeking advice the psychiatrist has been trained in the educational establishments created and/or funded by big business to tell the person that they must take a drug that will deaden the feelings they are having so that they might better fit into the consumer culture
The drugs themselves are manufactured by big business ('big pharma') in an industry worth $82 billion each year worldwide. In fact many big pharmaceutical companies have been exposed as selling products that are harmful (see for example the following examples: Pfizer and their drug Gerdou, Eli Lilly and their drug Zyprexa & Seroquel and their drug Astrazeneca)
People's emotional responses to their environnment are not given the consideration they deserve or any sort of validation and they are instead simply drugged and sent back to work so that they can keep working for big business and keep consuming
This means that insecure people who feel that something is missing in their life will make the best consumers, so it is in the interests of big business to make people feel insecure; they do this by posting images of perfect people in the media who people will then aspire to match in style, dress, behaviour etc
If you are not playing along with the consumerism game then the elites must find a new way to control you. The =y have found a very good way to do this in modern psychiatry.
Sure there are some people who might have something physiologically wrong with their brain but the vast majority of people experiencing negative emotions or anxiety are doing so because of the environment they are in.
For example a person might feel that they don't want to consume all the time and as a result they feel isolated within a culture that is all about consuming. This might make the person feel anxious or unhappy. If they go to a psychiatrist seeking advice the psychiatrist has been trained in the educational establishments created and/or funded by big business to tell the person that they must take a drug that will deaden the feelings they are having so that they might better fit into the consumer culture
The drugs themselves are manufactured by big business ('big pharma') in an industry worth $82 billion each year worldwide. In fact many big pharmaceutical companies have been exposed as selling products that are harmful (see for example the following examples: Pfizer and their drug Gerdou, Eli Lilly and their drug Zyprexa & Seroquel and their drug Astrazeneca)
People's emotional responses to their environnment are not given the consideration they deserve or any sort of validation and they are instead simply drugged and sent back to work so that they can keep working for big business and keep consuming
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well, in religion, they supplant natural human curiosity with wrong answers. (see: magical sky wizards, divine zombies, etc) to answer questions we arent advanced enough to tackle yet. The point of "faith" if you want to call it that is to believe blindly, LITERALLY. Its no wonder that the people who cling the most to religion come in a few groups:
1. People who follow the rules and behave in accordance to what they've been told by their family or church
2. people who run the church and have an installed power base.
3. batshit insane people.
4. People who have decided its easier to live with a fairy tale than to deal with a lifetime of confusion, questioning, and probably nihilistic depression.
at least this is all according to my own personal opinions based on the life I have lived and what I know of history and such.
I know I know, I just haven't been touched by the magic sky wizard and Jesus the non-terrifying zombie who doesn't eat human flesh, but whom provides it hasn't come into me yet... I doubt they ever will because its such silly bullshit.
All that aside, case in point, people use religion and faith to hide from the uncomfortable facts of life, which are of course:
We just dont fucking know... and thats fine.
muir
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In order to justify drugging people to calm them down modern psychiatry (funded by the elite and supported in educational establishments set up by the elite) has created a categorisation system called the DSM
This categorisation system is expanding all the time and lumps certain behaviours together under names it gives such as 'schitzotypal'. Through this system the elite tell us what behaviours are acceptable and which are not
Of course the behaviours they want to encourage are people who are obediant workers and who consume a lot
The elites learned long ago how they could use religion to control people as long as they controlled the interpretation of religion.
What Sapolsky is saying is that mental illness is genetic. What this does is to deny that environment plays a part in a persons mental wellbeing. However the psychiatrist R D Laing found that when he took schizophrenics out of their environment and put them into an enviornment in which they felt safe they improved and became 'normally' functioning people again. He showed that environment affects peoples mental state.
So why would the elite want everyone to believe that all mental illness is genetic? They would want this because if it is accepted that the environment is making people unwell then people would then argue that the environment should be changed and the elite do not want the system changed because this would affect their consumer system and in turn the profits of their businesses
If the people believed that what was wrong was not them (as the psychatrists tell them) but their culture then they would protest against the culture and that is exactly what the elite do not want!
This categorisation system is expanding all the time and lumps certain behaviours together under names it gives such as 'schitzotypal'. Through this system the elite tell us what behaviours are acceptable and which are not
Of course the behaviours they want to encourage are people who are obediant workers and who consume a lot
The elites learned long ago how they could use religion to control people as long as they controlled the interpretation of religion.
What Sapolsky is saying is that mental illness is genetic. What this does is to deny that environment plays a part in a persons mental wellbeing. However the psychiatrist R D Laing found that when he took schizophrenics out of their environment and put them into an enviornment in which they felt safe they improved and became 'normally' functioning people again. He showed that environment affects peoples mental state.
So why would the elite want everyone to believe that all mental illness is genetic? They would want this because if it is accepted that the environment is making people unwell then people would then argue that the environment should be changed and the elite do not want the system changed because this would affect their consumer system and in turn the profits of their businesses
If the people believed that what was wrong was not them (as the psychatrists tell them) but their culture then they would protest against the culture and that is exactly what the elite do not want!
Kmal
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That's close-minded, concrete thinking. You've closed off what the religion can be and assigned concrete labels to something metaphysical and abstract. The reason you havent understood it properly is because you're stuck in the concrete reality you've created; where nothing (see: God, Jesus, metaphors for being raised from the dead) can be abstract or metaphysical. That's fine, too. You seem to know that you dont know, which strikes me as ironic; kinda like nothing being a something.
muir
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There is a further element to all this......
We are all on this forum because Carl jung came up with a theory of cognitive functions
Carl Jung also said that our dreams are our unconscious mind communicating with us and that in order to be balanced as people we need to listen to and find peace with our unconscious mind
To do this a person must look inside themselves for answers. This is not what the elites want people to do! If people found balance within themselves then they would stop consuming so much as they would no longer be insecure. They would not need to take the drugs that big business makes a lot of money from and they might even start protesting about how the culture pushed on them by big business through its media was bad for peoples mental and physical health
So big business tries hard to distract people and to keep them looking at things external to themselves (bread and circus) and not looking within for their own answers and finding balance
Sapolsky mentions a study where some people looked for patterns of mental illness in the danish population and says that they found that there were often 'schitzotypal' people around schitzophrenics. Perhaps it hasn't occured to Sapolsky that the unusual behavioural traits of these people might be due to cultural/enviornmental reasons and that full blown schitzophrenia might be the result of being in such an environment with imbalanced people?!!!
Whereas Jung might say that we need to gain greater understanding about ourselves to heal emotionally someone like Sapolsky might say that the distress you are showing is genetic and that you must take some drugs
What these drugs are are seritonin uptake inhibitors, which have actually been shown to sometimes cause suicide. The reason for this is because what these drugs do is stop the flow of energy between the conscious and the unconscious mind. Eventually the negative energy of a distressed person willbuild up in their unconscious mind and will eventually break through into the conscious mind like water flooding through a broken dam causing an overload of negative emotion
We are all on this forum because Carl jung came up with a theory of cognitive functions
Carl Jung also said that our dreams are our unconscious mind communicating with us and that in order to be balanced as people we need to listen to and find peace with our unconscious mind
To do this a person must look inside themselves for answers. This is not what the elites want people to do! If people found balance within themselves then they would stop consuming so much as they would no longer be insecure. They would not need to take the drugs that big business makes a lot of money from and they might even start protesting about how the culture pushed on them by big business through its media was bad for peoples mental and physical health
So big business tries hard to distract people and to keep them looking at things external to themselves (bread and circus) and not looking within for their own answers and finding balance
Sapolsky mentions a study where some people looked for patterns of mental illness in the danish population and says that they found that there were often 'schitzotypal' people around schitzophrenics. Perhaps it hasn't occured to Sapolsky that the unusual behavioural traits of these people might be due to cultural/enviornmental reasons and that full blown schitzophrenia might be the result of being in such an environment with imbalanced people?!!!
Whereas Jung might say that we need to gain greater understanding about ourselves to heal emotionally someone like Sapolsky might say that the distress you are showing is genetic and that you must take some drugs
What these drugs are are seritonin uptake inhibitors, which have actually been shown to sometimes cause suicide. The reason for this is because what these drugs do is stop the flow of energy between the conscious and the unconscious mind. Eventually the negative energy of a distressed person willbuild up in their unconscious mind and will eventually break through into the conscious mind like water flooding through a broken dam causing an overload of negative emotion
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I think you are confused... I admit willingly that we know close nothing, this is the only real truth as far as I am concerned.
Did I close myself off to FAITH and BELIEF in those fairy tales? you betcha, but I am not closed off to learning about it for what it is. Religion has to be abstract, it doesn't deal with reality and yet it has a MAJOR grip on how people act in reality which is truly sad. Lets break the bible, or Koran, or any other religious crap open and talk about it, you will see I have done my research, I have a voracious appetite for information, especially human oriented social and historical information. I cut the chaff of silliness (religion) away years ago because it just distracts from life and reality with fairy tales. Its really no different than people who lose themselves in video games because escaping to Azeroth is more palatable than working at walmart.
And Religion CANNOT parade around as abstraction or metaphysics like philosophy. It is not, it is a way of life, it is a method of behavior, it is a method of belief, often used for control purposes and resource warfare. People didnt wipe out entire cultures of indigenous humans in the name of Humanism or Stoicism or the Fire and the Cave allegory, they did it for GOD! Yes GOD wanted them to massacre millions of human beings... doesnt sound so abstract and metaphysical to me, especially when religion is often used to push agendas, not to free people which is the mask it comes in.
muir
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Our species has for millenia had a relationship with our unconscious mind. It is expressed in cave art and through art and myths and story telling in cultures across the world. (Carl jung's book 'man and his symbols' deals with this)
The shamanic culture is one where shamens venture inwards into the 'spirit world' to seek answers.
This does not mean as someone like Sapolsky will tell you that the Shamen is going physically to another world, it means that the shamen is accessing what Jung called the 'collective unconscious' to seek answers as to the mental state of his patient
It is a way of healing people on an emotional level rather than a physiological level....although as we all know there is a link between our emotional and physical state....for example if we are feeling down it might lower our immune systems
Why Sapolsky wants to attack this kind of healing is because he is working for big business. he wants to help uphold a consumer cutlure where no one looks inwards for answers but rather takes drugs to kill their emotions
He has been educated by the Rockefellers and probably funded by them as well and like a sub editor of a newspaper he must reinforce the view point of the proprietor
The elites have sold us their interpretation of religion which is a literal one which requires us to make leaps of the imagination such as believing that a man once turned water into wine, when in fact this term 'water into wine' is metaphorical and actually means an initiatory process whereby someone or some people is/are initiated into jesus's spiritual system
The bible is largely the product of the unconscious mind ('revealed' religion comes from the unconscious) and therefore is not meant to be readliterally because it is often dealing with archtypes of the unconscious NOT always with facts
The shamanic culture is one where shamens venture inwards into the 'spirit world' to seek answers.
This does not mean as someone like Sapolsky will tell you that the Shamen is going physically to another world, it means that the shamen is accessing what Jung called the 'collective unconscious' to seek answers as to the mental state of his patient
It is a way of healing people on an emotional level rather than a physiological level....although as we all know there is a link between our emotional and physical state....for example if we are feeling down it might lower our immune systems
Why Sapolsky wants to attack this kind of healing is because he is working for big business. he wants to help uphold a consumer cutlure where no one looks inwards for answers but rather takes drugs to kill their emotions
He has been educated by the Rockefellers and probably funded by them as well and like a sub editor of a newspaper he must reinforce the view point of the proprietor
The elites have sold us their interpretation of religion which is a literal one which requires us to make leaps of the imagination such as believing that a man once turned water into wine, when in fact this term 'water into wine' is metaphorical and actually means an initiatory process whereby someone or some people is/are initiated into jesus's spiritual system
The bible is largely the product of the unconscious mind ('revealed' religion comes from the unconscious) and therefore is not meant to be readliterally because it is often dealing with archtypes of the unconscious NOT always with facts
Kmal
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Keep thinking that way, so you can blind your self from the blindness! Only see religion as concrete, so you dont have to see it philosophically, or metaphysically. Keep thinking people dont lie about God. There are hypocrites. Are you surprised? Stay in your comfort zone so you dont have to face your fears of the unknown, for there is no truth other than there is no truth, right?
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I dont know if you are religious or not. but if you were I would hastily reply that only one of us fears the unknown, and its not the nihilistic atheist.
Kmal
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Even if you were fearless of only abtract things, fear is not the problem.
You may know what it says, but you've yet to catch on to the moral of the story. Do you think that because someone says they follow a religion, they must automatically be perfect? You give religious people so much shit just for what they claim to identify with. It's like blind animosity. Everyone makes mistakes, some are intentional- let it go so you are not a bigot.
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Are you gonna wrap this up yet or what?
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Which moral? there are 1000s of them in the bible for example and they all contradict themselves AND the actions of their followers. You dont think people were acting moral when they rode into the New World and enslaved Africans and NA's? They truly believed they had a right to do such things because it was blessed by the Church and the bible speaks often of violence and hurting and killing "heathens" which morals would you like me to focus on? The ones that allowed the Inquisition, the torture of scientists non-believers who DARED to view the world as it is as opposed to how they were told it is by a book that was designed LITERALLY by a group of powerbrokers to keep the peace and their wallets fully. Which do i pick?
Kmal
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The main moral of the New Testament, expressed in two simple laws that the sums up the entirety of the message. Love God with everything you have, and love your neighbor as you love your self. Is that not simple enough? We must let go the concrete idea of God being a magical man in the sky though. All of a sudden, the idea of God is philosophical instead of close minded and concrete.
Of course, you cant find wisdom in something you arent looking for it in.
[MENTION=564]acd[/MENTION] I need you to be more specific so I can be.
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You clearly liked the language and use of imagery in the Gospels.
If you look at the entire history of world religion through them blinkers, yeah, you're going to end up a Nihilistic Atheist.
There is wheat and chaff in both religion and science. There is corruption where there is money and power and there is money and power in science and religion. Corruption causes the chaff. A really bad case of 'Chinese Whispers' I believe caused many of the details that just don't make any sense in the Old Testament but the New Testament was crafted many times. Refined, to suit the purposes of those in charge. These were real people, they had lives. They had issues and political rivalries. There were bribes, murders backstabbings and blackmail - just like today! You've just got to take what you can out of it and try to see past a lot. The way Muir is talking about societies and corruption and marketing in this thread is so applicable to religion. It's of supreme importance to know who has had control of which side of the story you get. Muir is talking about newspapers but the principle is completely transferable to all world relgions. The history of the religion and who has been in control of what is 'Orthodox' is as important to understanding as the texts themselves because without being able to separate the wheat from the chaff you'll never see the glimmers of truth that remain.
It wouldn't be here in so many forms that have so many overlapping and complimenting aspects if it was 'crap' and there was nothing to it.
I don't know what I believe totally but I think there is truth out there. With science, it's easy to determine truth. You can generally tell when people are full of shit because you can retest it. It is corrupt today beyond a doubt and is being used for more evil and profiteering than good so it seems.
I don't think the Truth is limited to religious belief, either. Though the greatest teachers often have had religions built around them despite their teachings never appearing to want recognition and worship or idol status. It's a personal journey and I'm getting there my way and you've got to get to it your way. There's way more to religion and the everything than you could have possibly studied if you're coming to these conclusions. If you're looking at the answer to everything within any boxed off segment you just won't find it. Defining what is and isn't a characteristic of a religious person is no different than those who branded people 'Heretics' throught history. Do you see that?
Anyway, I've gone on enough. I'm sure you've thought about...many things. I've re-read this a couple of times and it seems to make sense so if there is anything I've missed that doesn't, just ask. I considered myself Atheist for the last five years but have been doubting it for about six months and I'm looking into it again for the reasons I've just talked about so I hope you don't think I'm taking digs or saying this like it's obvious stuff.
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Kmal
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I see what you're saying. I cant abide by someone saying they believe in love, and act the complete opposite. So I'd disagree with the people "believing" in love and acting in hate even believing in the first place. It seems like they're using the religion for their own personal, fleeting, temporary gain. That's not the religion's, or the idea's fault- that's the persons fault. Fault isnt even as important as our response to their mistakes.
acd
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And while you personally and other individuals may not be doing that, it strangely seems to be the general trend all throughout history.