[Important] Limit

saru said:
How can you agree with this, but disagree with what I'm saying, when we're saying the same thing. I might make it sound like Fi, but its Fe.
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Because you are not saying the same thing, you are not describing Fe.
 
Trifoilum said:
....The directions sounds reversed, IMO. Fe is placing / expressing / manifesting your feelings derived from morals and ethics of the group. This might be a matter of explanation, but you made it seems like the 'directions' is out>in>out ('feeling' the outside world, processing it, then offering a reaction).

Sounds like Fi, if I were to be honest. But it might be just me...

The way I see it, Fe is in>out>in ('looking' at the environments around them, 'giving' their reaction, then 'looking' at the result).....and I'm talking nonsense again.

I think your words can be deducted as an example of Fe, but......there's something ....different. with the way you explained it.

Which isn't wrong, but can be problematic in your own life later if you so ever decide to analyze some actions (in the instance Odyne gave, she's absolutely right and it's not Fe.) and mentioning it to other person. Difference in perspective is a dangerous thing~

</rambles>
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1) I'm not even going to bother with Indigo anymore, that Titanic has sunk.

2) Trifoilium, what I am saying fe is is what Limit is saying, I understand that it may sound like Fi, but its not. I'm saying that you look to the outside for guidance. Limit said initially "I see extraverted feeling as the function that reasons, decides, and judges the collision of principles, rules of conduct, and the distinction between right and wrong sourced from an external, localized area." and thats what I just said. "sourced from an external, localized area" or my version "I said the rest you could deduce from that statement. Morals and ethics of the group are derived from placing your judging importance of feelings on the environment."


I think you guys are taking my words too literally, which isn't the best thing to do when talking to an INFJ, unless you don't wish to get anywhere.

When Odyne said "I can lash at you with my feelings" and then said it was Fi, I completely agree. When I say feeling directed towards the environment, I am saying that the environment controls the feeling effectively. Fuck, so I'm bad at explaining myself, put me in the stockades. whatevs. The fact is I've got Fe like a bitch, and I find it hilarious no one in this forum sees it. And its so obvious, haha. So obvious.


p.s. no one likes holes.
 
saru said:
If you place the importance of your judgement based upon feelings on the environment, this then means that the environment in its own way supersedes all else. If I place my decision making process based on how the environment feels, then I am going to look to the environment as to how I should lead my life, or make my decisions.
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^Yes, I think this is an extreme example of Fe.

I think that it can be hard to think of Fe by itself as opposed to Fe interacting with the other CFs, wich is why we have this disagreement.
 
Extraverted = it essentially occurs in the environment,
when you use an extraverted function your mind is "outside" yourself,
rather than the thoughts being in your head (which is introversion).

Judging = the cognition is process/goal based and structured

Feeling = using inexact measures, look for a "fit" or harmony between
multiple elements, as opposed to being exact and linearly sequenced.
Often associated with being people and value focused.

PUTTING IT TOGETHER.

Fe is a structured or goal-based process, which occurs outside of the
internal mind (i.e. in the environmental mind; alternatively the objective,
rather than the subjective aspect of the mind), using inexact measures
to weigh up different elements in the environment, to find a best fit,
i.e. to achieve what "feels" right.

It is especially well suited for managing social situations and other such
matters involving people, where taking a linear-logic approach would be
far too complex, and ultimately miss the important factors. It ties into
the use of values in decision making, and being an extraverted process,
will draw especially from collectively held values, so that the desired
external harmony may be reached.
 
Morgain said:
so it is likely that an FJ growing up in the Nazi society would take over the morals and etics of the Nazi?

that is a bit disturbing :shocked:
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It's true. Fi users are the ones who more commonly go against the grain with their moral values.

Alternatively, Ti works in a way where you can adapt and make your own ideas. Whereas Te is rather like Fe in that you only do things that have been tried and tested, it's harder to adapt.
 
Morgain said:
so it is likely that an FJ growing up in the Nazi society would take over the morals and etics of the Nazi?

that is a bit disturbing :shocked:
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Hold on I thought Martin Luther King and Jesus Christ where supposed to be FJ's?
 
Sali said:
I suppose, my point was that those two personalities definitely didn't go with the grain of their societies at that time.
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Peppermint says it well.

Peppermint said:
You guys...Fe users aren't slaves to social convention. They have other functions that provide balance, especially, if they aren't dominant Fe users.

http://forums.infjs.com/showthread.php?t=14232#8

@Limit you need to emphasis this.
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Besides I think the notion of typing 2000 year old figures is a little ridiculous to say the least.
 
[MENTION=3255]Sali[/MENTION], basically what is being said is that Fe is being tempered by Ti. The ethics are taken from the external (Fe) but Ti let's the person be critical of those ethics. Can you see now why there is a need for extroverted functions to be balanced by introverted functions and vice versa?
 
saru said:
I think you guys are taking my words too literally, which isn't the best thing to do when talking to an INFJ, unless you don't wish to get anywhere.
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So basically, this is a catchall for you to excuse yourself for not speaking clearly. You seem like one of the only members here who ever has to make statements like this.

It smells like a fish, looks like a fish, acts like a fish, but you call it a cat, and assert that it just has to be? ok then.
 
Peppermint said:
You guys...Fe users aren't slaves to social convention. They have other functions that provide balance, especially, if they aren't dominant Fe users.

http://forums.infjs.com/showthread.php?t=14232#8

@Limit you need to emphasis this.
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I did and someone else asked. The idea is to clarifying Fe as Fe, not bring other preferences in to cause confusion. Strip everything away and look at Fe as just Fe.

I only wrote this because so many people have a very misconstrued idea of Fe, even on The Nation.
 
IndigoSensor said:
So basically, this is a catchall for you to excuse yourself for not speaking clearly. You seem like one of the only members here who ever has to make statements like this.

It smells like a fish, looks like a fish, acts like a fish, but you call it a cat, and assert that it just has to be? ok then.
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No. In fact, I take the blame for the miscommunication quite often. I'm simply saying don't look at the miscommunication and accept it for communication. Now stop coming on just to troll me Indy.
 
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There, there; [MENTION=387]IndigoSensor[/MENTION], [MENTION=3156]saru[/MENTION]; agree to disagree? =) I understand we're currently looking at cognitive function in a highly academic terms, but... >_>;;;; ERRRR... at this point there's only hostility reeking in both of your posts. : |

Morgain said:
so it is likely that an FJ growing up in the Nazi society would take over the morals and etics of the Nazi?

that is a bit disturbing :shocked:
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I think so, because at that time that is the correct, 'right' path. the same with the counterpart, IXTP; once they've got 'data' that Nazi is doing the 'right' thing in their own calculation (Ti), they will follow the way. I'm going to assume within the Nazi Germany, the Fi doms will be assured that the Nazi goal is the true path of life (alternatively, the value of non-Aryans are next to zero). Sociology is interesting~ ^~^.

If we're talking about one solo function.

I'm especially asking [MENTION=3465]Limit[/MENTION] to compare one against one. While most of us won't have just one dominance of a function. As [MENTION=751]Peppermint[/MENTION] said.

Fe got Ti to measure how much of the conventions is true to our own value, as Te got Fi to measure how much of the calculations is actually good for their own.
Sali said:
Hold on I thought Martin Luther King and Jesus Christ where supposed to be FJ's?
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First, differences in values received. =) Even the same type of people may sees a million different things and construed it in a million different ways.
Second, indeed that is the role of Ti, as [MENTION=3710]kiu[/MENTION] had said.
 
Trifoilum said:
There, there; [MENTION=387]IndigoSensor[/MENTION], [MENTION=3156]saru[/MENTION]; agree to disagree? =) I understand we're currently looking at cognitive function in a highly academic terms, but... >_>;;;; ERRRR... at this point there's only hostility reeking in both of your posts. : |


I think so, because at that time that is the correct, 'right' path. the same with the counterpart, IXTP; once they've got 'data' that Nazi is doing the 'right' thing in their own calculation (Ti), they will follow the way. I'm going to assume within the Nazi Germany, the Fi doms will be assured that the Nazi goal is the true path of life (alternatively, the value of non-Aryans are next to zero). Sociology is interesting~ ^~^.

If we're talking about one solo function.

I'm especially asking [MENTION=3465]Limit[/MENTION] to compare one against one. While most of us won't have just one dominance of a function. As [MENTION=751]Peppermint[/MENTION] said.

Fe got Ti to measure how much of the conventions is true to our own value, as Te got Fi to measure how much of the calculations is actually good for their own.

First, differences in values received. =) Even the same type of people may sees a million different things and construed it in a million different ways.
Second, indeed that is the role of Ti, as [MENTION=3710]kiu[/MENTION] had said.
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I could write something up for each one in detail. I was actually hoping to include a lot more on this one but cut it out due to getting way off topic.

I actually planned on stripping each one down and explaining them in psychological terms; however, I
 
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