Malaysia Airline Crash

I'm trying to control the focus? I'm pretty sure you are the one doing that by turning this, and every other tragedy that has happened in this world, into one big conspiracy.

I used to spend a bit of time with a procurator fiscal and he told me that in his area most of the crime was created by the same people who were serial offenders

he explained that he was less interested in clamping down on the average generally law abiding citizen for the odd slip up and more interested in convicting the repeat offenders because that was the best way to reduce crime in the area

Well thats true on the macro scale too

Most of the large scale crimes are being carried out by the same small number of super criminals

Once a person understands that there is a group of criminally insane people out there carrying out a malevolent agenda then things will make a lot more sense

To people who can't grasp this the world must seem like a place full of insane and unrelated, random events carried out by many different people for presumably countless different reasons
 
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Are you out of your mind? Why would anyone have to prove such a thing??? This unreliable source is the same source that put this false information out there. Records show that in the SAME interview, he claimed responsibility for shooting down MH17 (by mistaken identity) and stated that the pilot and passengers died as a result of the plane crash. He was obviously well aware of the conspiracy theorists out there that would blame it on a shadow government, or some other crazy ass theory, and decided to say the bodies were dead before the crash. But he was too stupid to keep his lie together for 5 seconds.

Not only is it OFF the table, it was never really on the table to begin with.

No it says he initially thought that his troops shot the plane down because their was radio traffic saying so and that radio traffic is being used by the ukrainian authorities as evidence that the seperatists shot down the plane

But what if the ukrainian authorities made those radio transmissions that caused the confusion in the first place?

This is what the article you posted says:

''The Vkontakte posting has since been deleted, with Girkin saying that the information he received was unverified.
Unverified reports have since surfaced on intercepted conversations that allegedly show the MAS plane had been shot down by Ukrainian rebels.''

There have also been claims that two ukrainian jets were escorting the malaysia airlines flight before it was shot down but i don't know if that is true for sure
 
I used to spend a bit of time with a procurator fiscal and he told me that in his area most of the crime was created by the same people who were serial offenders

he explained that he was less interested in clamping down on the average generally law abiding citizen for the odd slip up and more interested in convicting the repeat offenders because that was the best way to reduce crime in the area

Well thats true on the macro scale too

Most of the large scale crimes are being carried out by the same small number of super criminals

Once a person understands that there is a group of criminally insane people out there carrying out a malevolent agenda then things will make a lot more sense

To people who can't grasp this the world must seem like a place full of insane and random events carried out by many different people

Maybe some of the theories you believe are truth. Anything in this world is possible. But when you turn every little thing that happens in this world into one, then you have no credibility.

You immediately jump to a conspiracy, no matter what. So the things you write about are not taken seriously by many.
 
Remember when HARP created the tsunami in Indonesia?
 
Maybe some of the theories you believe are truth. Anything in this world is possible. But when you turn every little thing that happens in this world into one, then you have no credibility.

You immediately jump to a conspiracy, no matter what. So the things you write about are not taken seriously by many.

Are you familiar with the concept of 'plato's cave' where people grow up chained in a cave only able to see the images projected onto a wall by the figures walking in front of the fire behind them?

One day one of the prisoners is released and is able to leave the cave and obviously finds that the world is completely different to how they imagined it to be

The mainstream media AND the education system is all about controlling the flow of information to your mind with the aim of limiting your perception of what is possible

They frame your perception of reality; for example John mcCain in that newsclip above telling US americans that the ukrainian forces do not have the capability to shoot down the plane when the other clip i posted shows they DO have the hardware

By doing that McCain is controlling your perception of what is possible. Anyone listening to him and believeing what he tells them now lives in a reality (a perception bubble) where the only people who could have shot down the plane is the seperatists who McCain says are basically the same people as the russians (the subtext being: ''the russians did it!'')

So by lying he has limited listeners perceptions of what is possible

That's just one example but these guys do it all the time with everything to the point where the world is in fact not at all how most people believe it to be

These people are then suprised when news stories come out of peadophile rings in the government whislt people like me knew it was going on already because i am not allowing these people to limit my perceptions of what is possible

That's not to say that i am believeing anything and everything i hear but it does mean that i don't instantly dismiss things and tend instead to explore possiblities and in doing so i often find out a lot of corrobarative evidence which builds a fuller picture

When you stop them limiting your perceptions of whats possible then all the pieces can begin to fall into place and the world stops being such a confusing place

There are very wealthy/powerful people who have a vision for the world and are working to realise that vision; they believe that any action is justified in achieving that vision because they believe that the ends justify the means; if that means shooting down airliners to create a case for war then so be it....if it means crashing planes into the twin towers to create a justification for war then so be it.....if it means dissapearing a plane to get rid of some of the people onboard in order to grab control of a company then so be it etc etc

These guys appear to have no limits which is why i think we all need to take a deep breath and step back from world war 3 here
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-flight-was-300-miles-off-typical-course.html

[h=1]Crashed MH17 flight 'was 300 miles off typical course'[/h] [h=2]MH17 flight feared to have been shot down over Ukraine was taking a significantly different route to the usual course for flights from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, according to aviation expert[/h]

Malaysia_Airlines__2979117b.jpg


A map of the airspace over Ukraine after the MH17 crash shows the area being avoided by most airliners

By Tom Brooks-Pollock, and Edward Malnick

10:25AM BST 18 Jul 2014


The crashed MH17 flight took a route 300 miles to the north of its usual path, an aviation expert has said.

Robert Mark, a commercial pilot who edits Aviation International News Safety magazine, said that most Malaysia Airlines flights from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur normally travelled along a route significantly further south than the plane which crashed.

Malaysia Airlines has insisted its plane travelled on an "approved route" used by many other carriers.

But Mr Mark said: "I can only tell you as a commercial pilot myself that if we had been routed that way, with what's been going on in the Ukraine and the Russian border over the last few weeks and months, I would never have accepted that route.

"I went into the FlightAware system, which we all use these days to see where airplanes started and where they tracked, and I looked back at the last two weeks' worth of MH17 flights, which was this one.

[h=2]Related Articles[/h]


"And the flight today tracked very, very much further north into the Ukraine than the other previous flights did ... there were MH17 versions that were 300 miles south of where this one was."
Records of recent MH17 flights on the FlightAware appear to bear out Mr Mark's claim, with earlier flights significantly further south than the flight that crashed.


Mr Mark’s intervention came amid mounting questions over why passenger jets were flying over the war zone three months after pilots were warned to avoid it.
Aviation safety authorities in America and Europe warned pilots in April about potential risks flying in or near Ukraine airspace.
Experts claimed that operators continued to fly across the zone because it was the quickest and cheapest route for some flights.
Norman Shanks, a former head of group security at the BAA airports group, said: "Malaysia Airlines, like a number of other carriers, has been continuing to use it because it is a shorter route, which means less fuel and therefore less money."
Attacks on aircraft in the area have been rife. In the past week alone two Ukrainian military aircraft were shot down and a third was damaged by a missile.
Eurocontrol, which coordinates European air traffic control, said Ukrainian authorities had now closed all routes in the east of the country.
A spokesman for Malaysia Airlines said: "This route is an approved route. 15 out of 16 airlines use this route. It's a safe route - most other countries use this route.
"So we were not given any notice to change this."
 
Lets just respectfully discuss information on MH17 - it's up to us (the readers) to discern it's truthfulness and/or decide to read it.
 
http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/07/...-western-deception-leading-to-more-questions/

[h=1]Flight MH17 Conjures MH370, Exposing Western Deception, Leading To More Questions[/h] July 19, 2014 By Shawn Helton 13 Comments

Shawn Helton

21stCentury Wire

There are many questions surrounding the ‘downed’ Malaysian airliner MH17, one must keep their eyes peeled, as the volatile landscape within Ukraine and the Middle East is front and center with regards to this latest high-flying tragedy…


Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 was apparently bound from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur on Thursday evening and was said to have ‘disappeared’ from radar prior to crashing near the settlement of Grabovo, in Eastern Ukraine’s Donetsk region, with the deaths of all 298 members on the plane, after it was originally stated the count was 295.

The human tragedy is incomprehensible, and a very sad ordeal for the victims families. The the potential damage doesn’t end there, however, as Washington and its allies are working overtime to try and establish guilt in the court of public opinion. It’s the type of pretext event which could easily spiral geopolitical rivals further towards a military confrontation in the short term.

MH17-Debris-1.jpg

IMAGE: A section of MH17 fuselage on the ground is but one key identifiable piece found in perfect condition, no burn marks or impact damage – without a scratch (Photo: Mashable)

Initial western media reports have suggested that the 777 Boeing was shot down by a SAM missile unit, leading Western governments and heavy-handed media outlets to hastily blame pro-Russian separatists for the incident without producing any real evidence. The sudden tragic end to MH17, has had a fiery backdrop provided by other regions of the world as well, as Israel has engaged in a ground invasion of Gaza, while Iraq has been wrought with manufactured terror for months, both of which are undoubtedly political factors contributing to the polarization of the MH17 incident.

There seems to be a heavy bias within media reports concerning the ‘doomed’ flight, prompting Russia’s Deputy Defense Minister Anatoly Antonov, tolambaste the West for drawing such a quick conclusion, without any verifiable evidence, as told to RT news:

“They try to show to the whole world that we are responsible for the crash. It is very strange that without any evidence my colleagues from western media would like to find somebody who is responsible for the crash,” Antonov stated. “It seems to me that this is part of information warfare which has been started against the Russian Federation and armed forces.” He also added, “As for me, I don’t want to use this opportunity to blame anybody. I would just like to raise few questions for my colleagues from the armed forces of Ukraine,” Antonov said. “I hope they try to answer the questions, it will be a good opportunity for us to realize where we are, whether there is a possibility for us to restart cooperation and to find who is really responsible for the tragedy.”

It should also be mentioned that Putin condemned the apparent plane attack when it was first announced, calling for a ceasefire between what Washington refers to as ‘pro-Russian separatist’ rebels and Kiev’s Western-backed Ukrainian armed forces in the wake of MH17′s downing – the third such ceasefire proposal which Washington has worked hard to undermine, preferring to politically and financially fuel the Ukrainian civil war from the outside.

mh17-crash8-data.jpg

IMAGE: ‘Burning evidence’ – The MH17 crash site near Grabovo in Ukraine’s Donetsk region. MH17 was apparently downed on the anniversary of TWA flight 800. While officials have stated that Flight 800 was downed in the Atlantic Ocean because of a feul tank explosion in 1996, many critics have doubted those claims stating that the plane was shot down due to the forensic evidence compiled. (Photo channelnewsasia.com)

Many will debate the cause of the MH17′s demise, as there are many anomalies surrounding this incident, as critics have already begun to question the crash itself, something of which we’ll look into a bit later, but before we do, one should examine those who are most likely to carry out such a dark event, via their access to air-defense equipment. 21WIRE’s own Andrew McKillop, weighed in on this very idea in his article entitled, “FLIGHT MH17 – KIEV FLASH MOB’S LAST FALSE FLAG?”:

While there is no certainty the pro*-Russian rebels hold advanced SAM air defence weapons, they are certainly in the hands of the Kiev flash mob government, alongside the advanced AAM weapons they also “inherited” from the elected government they overthrew. The onus of military proof is stacked against Kiev, leaving only the question of political motive or motives for the incident.”

Relevant Background History

Siberia Airlines Flight 1812 was shot down over the Black Sea in October of 2001 by the Ukrainian military in a flight traveling from Tel Aviv to Russia. It was first reported that Russian forces had been responsible for the areonuatical disaster, but the Interstate Aviation Committee (IAC) stated that the incident was caused by a surface-to-air missile strike by the Ukrainian military following a more lengthy investigation. US intelligence has claimed that Russia supplied the air-defense system but history tells a different tale.

There was said to be at least three cargo planes shot down this week by Ukrainian forces and according to Anton Lavrov, an independent aviation analyst and noted military expert, Ukraine has held many air-defense systems since Soviet times, outlining a trail of money leading back to the United States government, revealing its foreign policy blow-back:

Ukraine has had many portable air-defense systems since Soviet times. They were even disposing of them with the help of U.S. money.”

Washington’s World War via Social Media

So what about reports suggesting Russia supplied the armaments used to allegedly shoot down MH17?

United States intelligence has been busy trying to ‘build’ a case against Russia in the aftermath of MH17 and have suggested that the SAM defense system allegedly used to shoot down MH17 was brought back to Russia.

Western media been been busy, heavily pressing on the unverified conversations released on YouTube allegedly depicting a ‘BUK’ SAM missile system for 5 seconds – with no verification of where or when the brief video clip originated, but that hasn’t stopped ever major US media and radio program from stating that this somehow constitutes a closed case. The other ‘evidence’ US media is holding up is an unconfirmed Tweet from ‘rebels’ boasting about shooting down a passenger airliner.

The distortion through various social media over MH17, seems reminiscent of Secretary of State John Kerry‘s ‘open source evidence’ in Syria, allegedly showing young victims of chemical warfare - later we learned these videos had been fabricated to justify Washington’s war ambitions with Syria.

According to military analyst at the Institute for Political and Military Analysis, Alexander Khramchikhin, Ukrainian’s were the ones with ability to down the aircraft from weapons procured from Ukrainian bases after their change in government. The following quotes are from a recent interview that Khramchikhin had with The Moscow Times:
The only reason Russia would supply armaments to insurgents now is get rid of its own scrap metal,” continuing he added, “The proof that the Ukrainian authorities presented is laughable. It is aimed at a Ukrainian public that does not care about evidence.”

MH17 has followed the unprecedented and highly controversial disappearance of Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 back in March. Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 was said to have disappeared from the sky in the early hours of Saturday, March 8th, 2014, subsequently over at 35,000 feet heading in a flight bound for Beijing. The flight was carrying some 227 passengers and 12 crew members and had its flight path redirected, triggering many theories, as evidence suggested the flight had been deliberately taken off course and possibly landed. Many aeronautical experts agreed that the MH370′s apparent vanishing did indeed defy logic as it was ‘highly unusual’ if not outright unprecedented - at that altitude.

During the wave of MH370 reports in March, I outlined the many systems in place used to track the whereabouts of a Boeing 777 at all times, making the false reports by satellites very questionable:

Rolls Royce and Malaysian Airlines are said to have a partnership that requires the engine to transmit live data to its global engine health monitoring center in Derby, UK every 30 minutes. Investigators are said to have used the ACARS information uploaded to the engine maker.”

Additionally, we learned about the controversial on board device known as the Boeing Uninterruptible Autopilot (Fly-By-Wire remote control) that has supposedly been equipped in all Boeing planes since 1995, according to Field McConnell, a retired35 year Delta pilot, “This information was apparently not released until March of 2007, following a subsequent lawsuit by McConnell. The modification was reported to the FAA, NTSB and ALPA ( airline pilots association). According to McConnell’s documents, Boeing is said to have stated that by end of 2009 all Boeing planes would be fitted with the BUAP - making them impossible to manually hijack within the plane but susceptible to remote control by the military, according the flight veteran.”

MH17 Was Diverted For Explosion

So what could account for the lapse in radar systems just before MH17 crashed?

According to a YouTube report by POTRBLOG, there was evidence that military craft had been deployed in the area, which would reveal what could have provided the radar coverage, corroborating other accounts by Spanish air traffic control, that fighter jets were nearby the passenger plane before it was downed.

There are other pressing questions that need to be answered, as it has been confirmed by Malaysia Airlines itself, that Kiev-based Ukrainian air controllers had requested that MH17 lower its altitude just before the plane’s demise. Add to this, the fact that this MH17 passenger jet was redirected so it would fly directly through a war-zone where a number of planes and helicopters had apparently been shot down over the last three weeks.

If indeed a SAM ground missile system was used in the downing of MH17, then it would have required assistance in the form of radar guidance – a capability not even remotely known to be in the hands of rebels in Eastern Ukraine, but was certainly in the possession of NATO-backed Defense Ministry in Kiev.

The report below details a substance used by military planes to obscure an aircraft from radar and radar guided missiles called ‘Chaff’…

<span style="color: #000000;"><span style="color: #252525;"><span style="color: #000000;"><strong>[video=youtube;PUltrf8n_vA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUltrf8n_vA[/video]

Incredibly, this is the ‘evidence’ being touted by Washington and their friends in Kiev, that Russia is to blame for the downing of MH17, a 5 second YouTube video depicting with what appears to be a ‘BUK’ SAM defense system in transit on the back of a truck. Despite US corporate media reporters’ (like CNN’s Andersen Cooper yesterday) insistence that ‘a missile is missing’, there is zero evidence to even suggest that it was used, let alone, used in this explosion…

<strong>[video=youtube;mICnsgEY7wE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mICnsgEY7wE[/video]

Overwhelming Evidence Points to a Staged Event

On many fronts the official narrative of this story is being challenged, as military involvement would more likely indicate Ukrainian forces or those in support of them, with their easy access to air-defense weapons and given the vitriolic cries condemning the Russian’s before all the evidence has properly reviewed, it creates a clearer picture that the West is backing this highly propagandized witch-hunt - further exposing their role in the destabilization of Ukraine and continued the frame-up of Russia.

Here’s the alleged raw footage of the downed MH17 airliner…

<strong>[video=youtube;cUVyv96u9ps]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUVyv96u9ps[/video]

In conjunction with the geopolitical side of the MH17 event there was other odd evidence that seemed to defy logic. Below are a series of photographs depicting passports in perfectly mint condition, intact belongings found at, or near the crash site, and a flight radar screen shot showing that Flight MH17 was actually canceled…


IMAGE: ‘Strange evidence’ - 60-year-old Dutch psychologist Jolette Nuesink’s passport was found at the crash site in near mint condition along with dozens of others also in pristine shape. There will be many more passenger stories and photos to hook the public on the official narrative of the incident but you should be looking at the forensic evidence and the geopolitical ramifications (Photo smh.com)

How was it possible for these passports to be in such great condition at the crash site following such a large explosion?



IMAGE: ‘Planting passports?’ – Again here we see the gathering of passports near the MH17 crash site, notice they don’t have scratch on them. There were eyewitness report seeing charred bodies falling from the sky, raising more questions about the items that avoided being burned up at the crash scene
(Photo news.com)



IMAGE: ‘Without damage’ – Suspiciously, there were dozens of passports reportedly found at or near the MH17 wreckage, a crime scene reminiscent of the flight 93 crash site on 9/11, another scene mired in distortion that somehow produced near perfect passports after an apparent downed airliner during the questionable events that day (Photo news.com)

Malaysia-Airlines-Crash-Day-After-01.jpg

IMAGE: Faked? ‘A staged production’ – luggage and belongings seemingly untouched after the allegedly downed airliner, complete with an ‘I Love Amsterdam’ T-shirt splayed out for maximum effect (Photo thepositivevibe.com)


IMAGE: ‘Shedding light on the mystery of MH17′ – Here is an apparent screen shot from Flightradar24 that shockingly shows that the doomed Malaysian flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, MH17 was canceled (Photo flightradar24.com)

Above is a direct link to Flightradar24 for those who doubt the authenticity of the photo. Was this a glitch, or is the information on the site accurate? If nothing else, this is another bizarre finding in the case of MH17.In a bizarre twist, early on in this story, AOL reported how a pro-Russia commander in eastern Ukraine, named Igor Girkin, has stated that he felt the bodies near the crash site appeared to be dead for days:

A significant number of the bodies weren’t fresh,” suggesting that the bodies may have been tampered with as they were said to have been drained of blood and reeked of decomposition.


One can’t help but to connect the downed MH17 and the still as yet to be explained disappearance of MH370, comments like Girkin’s only add fuel to that fire. Only time will tell if the two flights are related in some way, or whether it was shot down or there was a bomb onboard but this highly theatrical event is seemingly meant to punish Russia, just as Syria’s government was similarly punished with false chemical weapons allegations last year.

Washington is now openly leveraging their own predetermined conclusions in order to push through yet more sanctions against Russia, as well as isolate Russia on the world diplomatic stage. A number geopolitical commentators have already pointed out that Washington and their NATO allies’ chief objective through this entire Ukrainian Civil War is not only to expand the EU and NATO eastward (as is both their public policy objectives), more urgently – to push Russia far enough back that another move can be made towards Syria by defense planners in Washington.

Keep a watchful eye as more details are sure to pour out of this incredible story…

SEE ALSO: FLIGHT MH17 - Kiev Flash Mob’s Final False Flag?

READ MORE UKRAINE NEWS AT: 21st Century Wire Ukraine Files

READ MORE WAR ON TERROR NEWS AT: 21st Century Wire War on Terror Files
 
Problem, reaction, solution explained:

[video=youtube;iEz5fQ_Pm-g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEz5fQ_Pm-g[/video]
 
[MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION] it takes me half the time to get through these posts when I have yours blocked. I should apologize. I rarely allow people to rub me the wrong way as I have you. It seems in retrospect I have never fully gotten over my annoyance with you concerning the things you are blatantly wrong about. The Masons being one. Having said that, I dont mean this as a put down or anything of the like. Seriously consider speaking to a professional. I think you have a vastly over active brain that latches onto ideas and cant let go.
 
I'm just curious about new around the world. Here in Canada, the primary stories around this crash are how Obama are dealing with the aftermath and their relationship with Russia. What are your news saying?

I've also been away from the news for some time, has pro-Russia Ukraine claimed this? Or is it still speculation?
 
I'm just curious about new around the world. Here in Canada, the primary stories around this crash are how Obama are dealing with the aftermath and their relationship with Russia. What are your news saying?

I've also been away from the news for some time, has pro-Russia Ukraine claimed this? Or is it still speculation?
Interesting. Here Obama is mia as normal. Trying to figure out how best to pay for an upgrade to the Whitehouses bowling alley and keep it secret.
 
[MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION] it takes me half the time to get through these posts when I have yours blocked. I should apologize. I rarely allow people to rub me the wrong way as I have you. It seems in retrospect I have never fully gotten over my annoyance with you concerning the things you are blatantly wrong about. The Masons being one. Having said that, I dont mean this as a put down or anything of the like. Seriously consider speaking to a professional. I think you have a vastly over active brain that latches onto ideas and cant let go.

To be fair to muir, he's only posting articles and information. It's no different than me posting an article on makeup, meditation, or one of my many other interests. I guess I really don't see why it rubs people the wrong way. It's easy enough to not read what he says. I don't want to get into the middle of this (although, it seems I am), but I feel as though muir's getting beat on for no reason. He's just posting alternative perspectives and information, if you don't want to hear about it, just scrollie on down past it.

This is really a new topic, and we don't know what's going on the the flight, for me, I like hearing all perspectives - your's as well! But I think it's more respectful to doubt the information posted, rather than personally put down the poster.
 
Interesting. Here Obama is mia as normal. Trying to figure out how best to pay for an upgrade to the Whitehouses bowling alley and keep it secret.

Really? I've been watching CNN, CBC, and CTV here this morning. And it's all about Obama and how America is going to handle Russia and pro-Russia Ukraine. I would rather an international investigation happen, rather than an America led one. Given America's relationship with Russia, it seems like things could go downhill!
 
To be fair to muir, he's only posting articles and information. It's no different than me posting an article on makeup, meditation, or one of my many other interests. I guess I really don't see why it rubs people the wrong way. It's easy enough to not read what he says. I don't want to get into the middle of this (although, it seems I am), but I feel as though muir's getting beat on for no reason. He's just posting alternative perspectives and information, if you don't want to hear about it, just scrollie on down past it.

This is really a new topic, and we don't know what's going on the the flight, for me, I like hearing all perspectives - your's as well! But I think it's more respectful to doubt the information posted, rather than personally put down the poster.
Thats not the only thing hes doing. He posts less than factual posts and when people confront him on it with facts that differ he wont even consider them. Hes not a bad person, just very confused and not interested in learning anything real.
 
Really? I've been watching CNN, CBC, and CTV here this morning. And it's all about Obama and how America is going to handle Russia and pro-Russia Ukraine. I would rather an international investigation happen, rather than an America led one. Given America's relationship with Russia, it seems like things could go downhill!

Yes all liberal news stations that want to post Obama in the best light possible.
 
To be fair to muir, he's only posting articles and information. It's no different than me posting an article on makeup, meditation, or one of my many other interests. I guess I really don't see why it rubs people the wrong way. It's easy enough to not read what he says. I don't want to get into the middle of this (although, it seems I am), but I feel as though muir's getting beat on for no reason. He's just posting alternative perspectives and information, if you don't want to hear about it, just scrollie on down past it.

This is really a new topic, and we don't know what's going on the the flight, for me, I like hearing all perspectives - your's as well! But I think it's more respectful to doubt the information posted, rather than personally put down the poster.
He spams articles that are based on conjecture and without fact leading to misinformation to those that don't have the time or the desire to look for an actual explanation. Some people like to just blame a single bad guy. Makes it seem like the problem is easier to fix and understand rather than just there are things in this world that we can't control or understand.
 
Yes all liberal news stations that want to post Obama in the best light possible.

What's with the conservative idea that Obama is the be-all-end-all of liberals? Frankly, aside from abortion and gun control, I'm as liberal as they come (wow that almost sounds funny) and he's far from my wet dreams/nightmares.

Since Iraq, it doesn't seem like all the military bases etc we have all over could be shown in a good light, just sayin' I always thought killing a bunch of random people who almost certainly had nothing to do with WMD's was kind of stupid and cruel (Just IMHO, I can't totally rule out the possibility that they thought he had or was trying to unearth alien tech [literally the only safety for HW I can think of besides ignorance]).
 
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