Malaysia Airline Crash

Thats not the only thing hes doing. He posts less than factual posts and when people confront him on it with facts that differ he wont even consider them. Hes not a bad person, just very confused and not interested in learning anything real.

I guess I don't understand why, if people believe/feel this way, they continue to engage/read his posts. People can pick and choose what they want to believe.


He spams articles that are based on conjecture and without fact leading to misinformation to those that don't have the time or the desire to look for an actual explanation. Some people like to just blame a single bad guy. Makes it seem like the problem is easier to fix and understand rather than just there are things in this world that we can't control or understand.

my point is: you have the ability to scroll past them. Why read them if you know you're going to get infuriated by them.


I've been reading the anti-conspiracy threads and all your exchanges, and the conclusion I've come to is that muir, as well as yourselves, are very similar in that you both believe in a truth and are willing to back that truth up with the information you've found to be true. You guys have opposite opinions. Neither is wrong or right- it's just different. But if engaging with muir makes you angry, why engage? Neither of you guys are willing to bend on what you believe, so why go there?

This is a thread about MH17, as in any thread I make, I welcome all and any ideas/perspectives/opinions.
 
@muir it takes me half the time to get through these posts when I have yours blocked. I should apologize. I rarely allow people to rub me the wrong way as I have you. It seems in retrospect I have never fully gotten over my annoyance with you concerning the things you are blatantly wrong about. The Masons being one. Having said that, I dont mean this as a put down or anything of the like. Seriously consider speaking to a professional. I think you have a vastly over active brain that latches onto ideas and cant let go.

I fully expect you to turn to personal attacks when you find your perceptions of reality are being challenged

I won't judge you for this as i have seen it occur a lot

It seems to be quite a common ego defence

But i would advise you that no matter how many times you call me crazy i am still going to post the truth so you have a choice whether or not you want to fill up these threads with personal attacks on me or whether you would rather focus on the issue at hand which in this case is the shootdown of a commerical airliner

If you think i am talking nonsense then challenge me and i'll show you why i hold those views

if you are too frightened to explore possibilities then that's ok you can ignore my posts but as i said any posts you make in which you try to brand me as crazy will be water off a ducks back
 
Really? I've been watching CNN, CBC, and CTV here this morning. And it's all about Obama and how America is going to handle Russia and pro-Russia Ukraine. I would rather an international investigation happen, rather than an America led one. Given America's relationship with Russia, it seems like things could go downhill!

The news here is using alarming langauge for example i read one news paper that described it as an 'act of war'!

basically they want to get as miuch mileage out of this event as possible

They want deeper involvement in ukraine than the secret covert operatives they already have on the ground in ukraine

They want to be able to openly provide military hardware and troops to fight a proxy war againt russia that will spiral out of control into world war 3

World war 3 however will be a nuclear war

There is also talk of 'sanctions' and sanctions are often the precursor to war; for example the japanese attacked pearl harbour after the US imposed harmful sanctions on japan
 
He spams articles that are based on conjecture and without fact leading to misinformation to those that don't have the time or the desire to look for an actual explanation. Some people like to just blame a single bad guy. Makes it seem like the problem is easier to fix and understand rather than just there are things in this world that we can't control or understand.

Nope i am not blaming a 'single bad guy'

I have explained my position in great depth in other posts

if you look at the situation objectively it will be clear to you that it is in fact the western corporate media who blames a single person with their constant narratives about 'PUTIN'

They have done this too with the nazis by placing the entire movement at the feet of Hitler when he was just one of the many players involved albeit playing a very visible role

They're very childish perspectives and that is deliberate because the powers that be want to infantalise the public
 
I guess I don't understand why, if people believe/feel this way, they continue to engage/read his posts. People can pick and choose what they want to believe.




my point is: you have the ability to scroll past them. Why read them if you know you're going to get infuriated by them.


I've been reading the anti-conspiracy threads and all your exchanges, and the conclusion I've come to is that muir, as well as yourselves, are very similar in that you both believe in a truth and are willing to back that truth up with the information you've found to be true. You guys have opposite opinions. Neither is wrong or right- it's just different. But if engaging with muir makes you angry, why engage? Neither of you guys are willing to bend on what you believe, so why go there?

This is a thread about MH17, as in any thread I make, I welcome all and any ideas/perspectives/opinions.
Imagine a person calling your grandmother a world domination seeker because she likes to bake cookies with other grandmothers. Once you confront them with the facts it doesnt deter them... they continue. Would you not become annoyed after a while and occasionally find it hard to keep your mouth shut?
 
What's with the conservative idea that Obama is the be-all-end-all of liberals? Frankly, aside from abortion and gun control, I'm as liberal as they come (wow that almost sounds funny) and he's far from my wet dreams/nightmares.

Since Iraq, it doesn't seem like all the military bases etc we have all over could be shown in a good light, just sayin' I always thought killing a bunch of random people who almost certainly had nothing to do with WMD's was kind of stupid and cruel (Just IMHO, I can't totally rule out the possibility that they thought he had or was trying to unearth alien tech [literally the only safety for HW I can think of besides ignorance]).

I agree. Obama paints himself as a liberal after all its how he got elected. He is far from it though, hes the guy that hates America so much he wants to see it burn. From that respect he is doing quite and outstanding job of it.
 
Imagine a person calling your grandmother a world domination seeker because she likes to bake cookies with other grandmothers. Once you confront them with the facts it doesnt deter them... they continue. Would you not become annoyed after a while and occasionally find it hard to keep your mouth shut?

do what you want...

I'd rather not spend my energy and posts today trying to separate children on the playground who are just picking on each other for the sake of it...

I'd rather get back to discussing the topic of this thread.
 
Imagine a person calling your grandmother a world domination seeker because she likes to bake cookies with other grandmothers. Once you confront them with the facts it doesnt deter them... they continue. Would you not become annoyed after a while and occasionally find it hard to keep your mouth shut?

If you actually read my posts you would have seen that i am not accusing your father of having been a conspirator because he was a freemasonic grandmaster

I have been very clear in saying that the vast majority of freemasons never make it into the inner order of freemasonry and remain oblivious to its overall agenda

You haven't 'confronted me with any facts'

I have spoken to high ranking freemasons who deny the occult aspects to freemasonry which shows that they are either ignorant of such facts (out-of-the-loop) or lying

For example i told one that the 33 degrees of the scottish rite representes the climb up the vertbra of the spine towards the skull which representes the process of raising the kundelini so that the pineal gland may be activiated 'illuminating' the initiate

As a 32nd degree mason he denied all knowledge of this and it is very conceivable that the black lodge have watered down freemasonry to such a degree that most outer order freemasons are doing little more than dressing up and acting as part of a social club and that he was indeed ignorant
 
I like this article (http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com...achine-churning-out-mh17-conspiracy-theories/)

I think the most interesting thing is this:
Drawing a parallel with how the Bush administration had misled the world about Saddam Hussein having weapons of mass destruction, Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin claimed Saturday that the White House had established “the guilty” even before the investigation of the aircraft’s downing.

I gotta say, while they are suggesting people are silly for thinking/believing in what the Russians are saying about the crash, I think that this statement kind of supports the idea that there might be something more to it. The US did jump in super quick to point the finger at Russia. As obvious as it might be, the WOMD issue with Hussein is a great example at how the US just lambasted us with lies and those lies supported a war.

I'm not saying Russia did or didn't do it- but I just get an icky feeling watching America drive down our throats that it was Russia without taking the time to actually look into this. These are threats that could incite a war.
 
I like this article (http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com...achine-churning-out-mh17-conspiracy-theories/)

I think the most interesting thing is this:


I gotta say, while they are suggesting people are silly for thinking/believing in what the Russians are saying about the crash, I think that this statement kind of supports the idea that there might be something more to it. The US did jump in super quick to point the finger at Russia. As obvious as it might be, the WOMD issue with Hussein is a great example at how the US just lambasted us with lies and those lies supported a war.

I'm not saying Russia did or didn't do it- but I just get an icky feeling watching America drive down our throats that it was Russia without taking the time to actually look into this. These are threats that could incite a war.

Yes!

Sit back in wonder as the brainwashed suicidal lemmings jump on the war bandwagon...AGAIN! (that's a NUCLEAR WAR BANDWAGON!)...they're picking a fight with russia!

How does anyone even take their government seriously anymore? ***shakes head in disbelief***
 
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Yes!

Sit back in wonder as the brainwashed suicidal lemmings jump on the war bandwagon...AGAIN! (that's a NUCLEAR WAR BANDWAGON!)...they're picking a fight with russia!

How does anyone even take their government seriously anymore? ***shakes head in disbelief***

I think the wording of these reports are soooo scary.

This is a time that should be spent figuring out what happened, rather than jumping to an automatic solution to an unknown problem.

It might just be my mindset lately, but I'm not comfortable with some of the headlines I'm reading about it. As with everything in politics- all sides are at fault...a group of independent and multi-national individuals should be in there right now trying to investigate - the US, Russia and Ukraine should be opening all lines of communication. The Ukraine and pro-Russian supporters need to let people in; but at the same time, i don't think it should be the Americans only.

This is really an incident that impacts everyone. These were innocent people, traveling in a 'safe' zone, with no intentions of harm. We as a world should be rallying up to ask for answers in non-aggressive ways...but I guess I am asking for a pretty idealistic world.

I just worry that the public will want action against Russia, before getting the answer to how this all happened.
 
Wow.

I don't know where to start. It was shot down? By who? Ukraine? Russia? Why? What will be the impact of this?

Another Malaysia MH370 down. Coincidence? Probably, but what if it's not!?

How will this impact the investigation of the missing MH370 airline?

Curious to know what you think!

What I think? well... I think it is rather remarkable how quickly they had evidence videos and even recordings of supposedly pro-russian rebels talking about the crash and driving off with the vehicle that was supposedly responsible for the whole thing.

I also am quite skeptical about this, I often recognize footage used in the media as something from a few years before in another country. How often have I not seen for example pictures and videos from say gaza where supposedly I saw palastinian people hurt by israely soldiers or bombings, whilst noticing the soldiers in the picture did not use any gear even related to say israel, and later saw a picture of people who had supposedly died in an attack whilst holding a picture where they were supposedly dead.

When I keep all these things in mind. and see the so called evidence that I see in the media. like the video that just happened to be recorded by someone on their phone in crappy quality in the middle of a war zones that supposedly just happened to see them driving somewhere and had their cellphone out in time. Then I really start to wonder. Because the quality of the phone is ancient and nothing anyone there uses. they got the same mobile phones we do. with touch screens and awesome cameras.

Then I start to think about how unlikely it is to not only tap into a group of what are supposedly pro-russian rebels their communications but also be recording it.

And then I find it most amazing that these things all reach the press at roughly the same time, since an hour after the crash this was already swarming everywhere before the supposedly new information hit cnn later that day. information that was there the moment the crash was announced.

There are also rumors in some circles that president putin was on a plane nearby when it happened. And his plane looks simular enough for someone to mess up an assassination attempt when provided with two targets flying the same route within minutes from each other.

now, When I look at russias past, these are not the kinds of things they would allow to happen. Nor would they gain anything from it. And then when I look at how strongly the american government is pointing fingers at russia, not just the supposed rebels but russia, and how much quicker then normal this happened. I cant help but think, that something different happened from what we are told.


ps. heres a comparison of putin's plane and the plane of malaysia airlines. got this from an malaysian newspaper article. just google the picture and you will find many articles in many known newspapers talking about this http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-EHGiK7-5g3k/U8iwoh6oJ3I/AAAAAAAABe4/7KHSIEk2eng/s1600/airplane.png
 
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My heart ached when I read this. :( Those poor very unlucky people... It was horrible to read this kind of awful news 2 days before my flight back to home. >_<
 
I think the wording of these reports are soooo scary.

This is a time that should be spent figuring out what happened, rather than jumping to an automatic solution to an unknown problem.

It might just be my mindset lately, but I'm not comfortable with some of the headlines I'm reading about it. As with everything in politics- all sides are at fault...a group of independent and multi-national individuals should be in there right now trying to investigate - the US, Russia and Ukraine should be opening all lines of communication. The Ukraine and pro-Russian supporters need to let people in; but at the same time, i don't think it should be the Americans only.

This is really an incident that impacts everyone. These were innocent people, traveling in a 'safe' zone, with no intentions of harm. We as a world should be rallying up to ask for answers in non-aggressive ways...but I guess I am asking for a pretty idealistic world.

I just worry that the public will want action against Russia, before getting the answer to how this all happened.

People need to wake up fast because everything has now gone to a new level of seriousness

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/06/03/365401/are-you-ready-for-nuclear-war/

Are you ready for nuclear war?
365401_Obama.jpg
Tue Jun 3, 2014 2:49PM
By Paul Craig Roberts
Related Interviews:



Pay close attention to Steven Starr’s article, “The Lethality of Nuclear Weapons.” Washington thinks nuclear war can be won and is planning for a first strike on Russia, and perhaps China, in order to prevent any challenge to Washington’s world hegemony.

The plan is far advanced, and the implementation of the plan is underway. As I have reported previously, US strategic doctrine was changed and the role of nuclear missiles was elevated from a retaliatory role to an offensive first strike role. US anti-ballistic missile (ABM) bases have been established in Poland on Russia’s frontier, and other bases are planned. When completed Russia will be ringed with US missile bases.
Anti-ballistic missiles, known as “star wars,” are weapons designed to intercept and destroy ICBMs. In Washington’s war doctrine, the US hits Russia with a first strike, and whatever retaliatory force Russia might have remaining is prevented from reaching the US by the shield of ABMs.
The reason Washington gave for the change in war doctrine is the possibility that terrorists might obtain a nuclear weapon with which to destroy an American city. This explanation is nonsensical. Terrorists are individuals or a group of individuals, not a country with a threatening military. To use nuclear weapons against terrorists would destroy far more than the terrorists and be pointless as a drone with a conventional missile would suffice.
The reason Washington gave for the ABM base in Poland is to protect Europe from Iranian ICBMs. Washington and every European government knows that Iran has no ICBMs and that Iran has not indicated any intent to attack Europe.
No government believes Washington’s reasons. Every government realizes that Washington’s reasons are feeble attempts to hide the fact that it is creating the capability on the ground to win a nuclear war.
The Russian government understands that the change in US war doctrine and the US ABM bases on its borders are directed at Russia and are indications that Washington plans a first strike with nuclear weapons on Russia.
China has also understood that Washington has similar intentions toward China. As I reported several months ago, in response to Washington’s threat China called the world’s attention to China’s ability to destroy the US should Washington initiate such a conflict.
However, Washington believes that it can win a nuclear war with little or no damage to the US. This belief makes nuclear war likely.
As Steven Starr makes clear, this belief is based in ignorance. Nuclear war has no winner. Even if US cities were saved from retaliation by ABMs, the radiation and nuclear winter effects of the weapons that hit Russia and China would destroy the US as well.
The media, conveniently concentrated into a few hands during the corrupt Clinton regime, is complicit by ignoring the issue. The governments of Washington’s vassal states in Western and Eastern Europe, Canada, Australia, and Japan are also complicit, because they accept Washington’s plan and provide the bases for implementing it. The demented Polish government has probably signed the death warrant for humanity. The US Congress is complicit, because no hearings are held about the executive branch’s plans for initiating nuclear war.
Washington has created a dangerous situation. As Russia and China are clearly threatened with a first strike, they might decide to strike first themselves. Why should Russia and China sit and await the inevitable while their adversary creates the ability to protect itself by developing its ABM shield? Once Washington completes the shield, Russia and China are certain to be attacked, unless they surrender in advance.
The 10 minute report below from Russia Today makes it clear that Washington’s secret plan for a first strike on Russia is not secret. The report also makes it clear that Washington is prepared to eliminate any European leaders who do not align with Washington.
Readers will ask me, “What can we do?” This is what you can do. You can shut down the Ministry of Propaganda by turning off Fox News, CNN, the BBC, ABC, NBC, CBS, by ceasing to read the New York Times, the Washington Post, the LA Times. Simply exit the official media. Do not believe one word that the government says. Do not vote. Realize that evil is concentrated in Washington. In the 21st century Washington has destroyed in whole or part seven countries. Millions of peoples murdered, maimed, displaced, and Washington has shown no remorse whatsoever. Neither have the “Christian” churches. The devastation that Washington has inflicted is portrayed as a great success. Washington prevailed.
Washington is determined to prevail, and the evil that Washington represents is leading the world to destruction.

PCR/SL

327359_Roberts.jpg

Dr Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Economic Policy and associate editor of the Wall Street Journal. He was columnist for Business Week, Scripps Howard News Service, and Creators Syndicate. He has had many university appointments. His internet columns have attracted a worldwide following. His latest book, The Failure of Laissez Faire Capitalism and Economic Dissolution of the West is now available. More articles by Dr. Roberts.
 
[h=1]Airline Horror Spurs New Rush to Judgment[/h] [h=2]July 19, 2014[/h] Exclusive: President Obama and the State Department’s “anti-diplomats” are fanning flames of anger against Russia after the shoot-down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 over Ukraine. But some U.S. intelligence analysts doubt the popular “blame-the-Russians” scenario, reports Robert Parry.
By Robert Parry
Despite doubts within the U.S. intelligence community, the Obama administration and the mainstream U.S. news media are charging off toward another rush to judgment blaming Ukrainian rebels and the Russian government for the shoot-down of a Malaysia Airlines plane, much as occurred last summer regarding a still-mysterious sarin gas attack in Syria.
In both cases, rather than let independent investigators sort out the facts, President Barack Obama’s ever-aggressive State Department and the major U.S. media simply accepted that the designated villains of those two crises – Bashar al-Assad in Syria and Russian President Vladimir Putin on Ukraine – were the guilty parties. Yet, some U.S. intelligence analysts dissented from both snap conventional wisdoms.
President Barack Obama talks with Ambassador Samantha Power, U.S. Permanent Representative to the United Nations, following a Cabinet meeting in the Cabinet Room of the White House, Sept. 12, 2013. (Official White House Photo by Pete Souza)

Regarding the shoot-down of the Malaysian jetliner on Thursday, I’m told that some CIA analysts cite U.S. satellite reconnaissance photos suggesting that the anti-aircraft missile that brought down Flight 17 was fired by Ukrainian troops from a government battery, not by ethnic Russian rebels who have been resisting the regime in Kiev since elected President Viktor Yanukovych was overthrown on Feb. 22.
According to a source briefed on the tentative findings, the soldiers manning the battery appeared to be wearing Ukrainian uniforms and may have been drinking, since what looked like beer bottles were scattered around the site. But the source added that the information was still incomplete and the analysts did not rule out the possibility of rebel responsibility.
A contrary emphasis has been given to the Washington Post and other mainstream U.S. outlets. On Saturday, the Post reported that “on Friday, U.S. officials said a preliminary intelligence assessment indicated the airliner was blown up by an SA-11 surface-to-air missile fired by the separatists.” But the objectivity of the Obama administration, which has staunchly supported the coup regime, is in question as are the precise reasons for its judgments.
Even before the Feb. 22 coup, senior administration officials, including Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland and U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt, were openly encouraging protesters seeking the overthrow of Yanukovych. Nuland went so far as to pass out cookies to the demonstrators and discuss with Pyatt who should be appointed once Yanukovych was removed.
After Yanukovych and his officials were forced to flee in the face of mass protests and violent attacks by neo-Nazi militias, the State Department was quick to declare the new government “legitimate” and welcomed Nuland’s favorite, Arseniy Yatsenyuk, as the new prime minister.
As events have unfolded since then, including Crimea’s secession to join Russia and bloody attacks directed at ethnic Russians in Odessa and elsewhere, the Obama administration has consistently taken the side of the Kiev regime and bashed Moscow.
And, since Thursday, when the Malaysian plane was shot down killing 298 people, the Ukrainian government and the Obama administration have pointed the finger of blame at the rebels and the Russian government, albeit without the benefit of a serious investigation that is only now beginning.
One of the administration’s points has been that the Buk anti-aircraft missile system, which was apparently used to shoot down the plane, was “Russian made.” But the point is rather silly since nearly all Ukrainian military weaponry is “Russian made.” Ukraine, after all, was part of the Soviet Union until 1991 and has continued to use mostly Russian military equipment.
It’s also not clear how the U.S. government ascertained that the missile was an SA-11 as opposed to other versions of the Buk missile system.
Slanting the Case
Virtually everything that U.S. officials have said appears designed to tilt suspicions toward the Russians and the rebels – and away from government forces. Referring ominously to the sophistication of the SA-11, U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Samantha Power declared, “We cannot rule out Russian technical assistance.” But that phrasing supposedly means that the administration can’t rule it in either.
Still, in reading between the lines of the mainstream U.S. press accounts, it’s possible to see where some of the gaps are regarding the supposed Russian hand in Thursday’s tragedy. For instance, the Post’s Craig Whitlock reported that Air Force Gen. Philip M. Breedlove, U.S. commander of NATO forces in Europe, said last month that “We have not seen any of the [Russian] air-defense vehicles across the border yet.”
Since these Buk missile systems are large and must be transported on trucks, it would be difficult to conceal their presence from U.S. aerial surveillance which has been concentrating intensely on the Ukraine-Russia border in recent months.
The Post also reported that “Rear Adm. John Kirby, the Pentagon press secretary, said defense officials could not point to specific evidence that an SA-11 surface-to-air missile system had been transported from Russia into eastern Ukraine.”
In other words, the mystery is still not solved. It may be that the rebels – facing heavy bombardment from the Ukrainian air force – convinced the Russians to provide more advanced anti-aircraft weapons than the shoulder-fired missiles that the rebels have used to bring down some Ukrainian military planes.
It’s possible, too, that a rebel detachment mistook the civilian airliner for a military plane or even that someone in the Russian military launched the fateful rocket at the plane heading toward Russian airspace.
But both the Russian government and the rebels dispute those scenarios. The rebels say they don’t have missiles that can reach the 33,000-foot altitude of the Malaysian airliner. Besides denying a hand in the tragedy, the Russians claim that the Ukrainian military did have Buk anti-aircraft systems in eastern Ukraine and that the radar of one battery was active on the day of the crash.
The Russian Defense Ministry stated that “The Russian equipment detected throughout July 17 the activity of a Kupol radar, deployed as part of a Buk-M1 battery near Styla [a village some 30 kilometers south of Donetsk],” according to an RT report.
So, the other alternative remains in play, that a Ukrainian military unit – possibly a poorly supervised bunch – fired the missile intentionally or by accident. Why the Ukrainian military would intentionally have aimed at a plane flying eastward toward Russia is hard to comprehend, however.
A Propaganda Replay?
But perhaps the larger point is that both the Obama administration and the U.S. press corps should stop this pattern of rushing to judgments. It’s as if they’re obsessed with waging “information warfare” – i.e., justifying hostilities toward some adversarial nation – rather than responsibly informing the American people.
We saw this phenomenon in 2002-03 as nearly the entire Washington press corps clambered onboard President George W. Bush’s propaganda bandwagon into an aggressive war against Iraq. That pattern almost repeated itself last summer when a similar rush to judgment occurred around a sarin gas attack outside Damascus, Syria, on Aug. 21.
Though the evidence was murky, there was a stampede to assume that the Assad government was behind the attack. While blaming the Syrian army, the U.S. press ignored the possibility that the attack was a provocation committed by radical jihadist rebels who were hoping that U.S. air power could turn the tide of the war in their favor.
Rather than carefully weigh the complex evidence, the State Department and Secretary of State John Kerry tried to spur President Obama into a quick decision to bomb Syrian government targets. Kerry delivered a belligerent speech on Aug. 30 and the administration released what it called a “Government Assessment” supposedly proving the case.
But this four-page white paper contained no verifiable evidence supporting its accusations and it soon became clear that the report had excluded dissents that some U.S. intelligence analysts would have attached to a more formal paper prepared by the intelligence community.
Despite the war hysteria then gripping Official Washington, President Obama rejected war at the last moment and – with the help of Russian President Putin – was able to negotiate a resolution of the crisis in which Assad surrendered Syria’s chemical weapons while still denying a hand in the sarin gas attack.
The mainstream U.S. press, especially the New York Times, and some non-governmental organizations, such as Human Rights Watch, continued pushing the theme of the Syrian government’s guilt. HRW and the Times teamed up for a major story that purported to show the flight paths of two sarin-laden missiles vectoring back to a Syrian military base 9.5 kilometers away.
For a time, this report was treated as the slam-dunk evidence proving the case against Assad, until it turned out that only one of the rockets carried sarin and the maximum range of the one that did have sarin was only about two kilometers.
Despite knowing these weaknesses in the case, President Obama stood by his State Department hawks by reading a speech to the UN General Assembly on Sept. 24 in which he declared: “It’s an insult to human reason and to the legitimacy of this institution to suggest that anyone other than the regime carried out this attack.”
In watching Obama’s address, I was struck by how casually he lied. He knew better than almost anyone that some of his senior intelligence analysts were among those doubting the Syrian government’s guilt. Yet, he suggested that anyone who wasn’t onboard the propaganda train was crazy.
Since then, investigative journalist Seymour Hersh has revealed other evidence indicating that the sarin attack may indeed have been a rebel provocation meant to push Obama over the “red line” that he had drawn about not tolerating chemical weapons use.
Now, we are seeing a repeat performance in which Obama understands the doubts about the identity of who fired the missile that brought down the Malaysian airliner but is pushing the suspicions in a way designed to whip up animosity toward Russia and President Putin.
Obama may think this is a smart play because he can posture as tough when many of his political enemies portray him as weak. He also buys himself some P.R. protection in case it turns out that the ethnic Russian rebels and/or the Russian military do share the blame for the tragedy. He can claim to have been out front in making the accusations.
But there is a dangerous downside to creating a public hysteria about nuclear-armed Russia. As we have seen already in Ukraine, events can spiral out of control in unpredictable ways.
Assistant Secretary Nuland and other State Department hawks probably thought they were building their careers when they encouraged the Feb. 22 coup – and they may well be right about advancing their status in Official Washington at least. But they also thawed out long-frozen animosities between the “ethnically pure” Ukrainians in the west and the ethnic Russians in the east.
Those tensions – many dating back to World War II and before – have now become searing hatreds with hundreds of dead on both sides. The nasty, little Ukrainian civil war also made Thursday’s horror possible.
But even greater calamities could lie ahead if the State Department’s “anti-diplomats” succeed in reigniting the Cold War. The crash of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 should be a warning about the dangers of international brinkmanship.
http://consortiumnews.com/2014/07/19/airline-horror-spurs-new-rush-to-judgment/
 
do what you want...

I'd rather not spend my energy and posts today trying to separate children on the playground who are just picking on each other for the sake of it...

I'd rather get back to discussing the topic of this thread.
Thank you! Children hmmm.... Well I have been called worse.

I have a bother, 1 of 2 who is exceptional paranoid as well. I struggle to get through to him, tell him not to waste his time and effort on fighting images of what could be but in reality just isnt. Id like to see him happy. Anyway long story short, I have a lot of experience communicating with people in a similar state of mind.
 
Thank you! Children hmmm.... Well I have been called worse.

I have a bother, 1 of 2 who is exceptional paranoid as well. I struggle to get through to him, tell him not to waste his time and effort on fighting images of what could be but in reality just isnt. Id like to see him happy. Anyway long story short, I have a lot of experience communicating with people in a similar state of mind.

Its not paranoia if its true

You seem stuck on the level of ad hominum like you are unable to get above that gear into discussing the issues as if you are more interested in silencing dissenting voices then you are in finding the truth

Well i hope that at the very least that the saying 'ignorance is bliss' strikes true for you and that by burying your head in the sand you have found some happiness
 
I agree. Obama paints himself as a liberal after all its how he got elected. He is far from it though, hes the guy that hates America so much he wants to see it burn. From that respect he is doing quite and outstanding job of it.
Sorry, but you honestly think that Obama hates America? Really? And he just went through all the trouble of becoming President and all that shit, just to burn it to the ground? He’s just a puppet. We are owned by the rich in this country. They have effectively lobbied for the stagnation and shut-down of our congress, they have bought our Supreme Court finalizing the last step standing in the way of bending the government to their liking. We are fucked man, and it isn’t Obama's fault I hate to say it. I didn’t like Bush, and I don’t like Obama either. They are both the same only with slight partisan differences. One started two wars, one is continuing two wars. One allocated a crapload of troops to the border, the other has deported a record amount of people. One crashed the economy, the other handed the keys to the banks. They are both just proxy leaders. Our system of voting here (now properly sold to highest bidder) has not counted your vote for years! Corporations now have more rights than the people…and the owners of said corporations are in control for the right price.
 
[video=youtube;ND-4RgakhJw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND-4RgakhJw[/video]
 
Video beiing shown in US corporate media of BUK launcher supposedly crossing the Russia border is being claimed to actually be within keiv controlled territores and NOT the russian border

Here's a passage from the following article:

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014...-responsibility-plane-shootdown-debunked.html

The video referenced by the New York Times was, in fact, posted on the Facebook account of the Ukrainian Interior Minister. The allegation was that the launcher was crossing the border with Russia.
However, going by the billboard and other features of the scenery, Russian bloggers and news sources claim to have identified the road in the video as having been taken in or near the town of Krasnoarmeisk (“Krasnoarmiysk” in Ukrainian), which has been under Kiev’s control since May.
In fact, the billboard is supposedly advertising a Krasnoarmeisk car dealership. Also, one of the structures in the background is said to be a construction materials store on Gorkii Street, Krasnoarmeisk.
Please note that this town is (very roughly) 120 kilometers from the Russian border and 80 kilometers from where the Malaysian 777 went down. And again, it has been under Kiev’s control since May.
At least one other clip of the “Russian Buk” that has been made available also suggests that the Ukrainians are showing their own equipment. I’m still working on researching that one for you.
 
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