math

alice144

alice144

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Any infjs studying math? It feels like such and intp field. Si for all the theorems, rules, etc, Ti, for looking at everything through the prism of logic, often at the expense of what would immediately make sense. It makes me happy because unlike other, even scientific fields of study, there isn't that overwhelming complexity and overabundance of information, facts. Just wondering if anyone had dipped their toes into, say, chemistry, and found that easier to follow. Personally, I find that the closer the science starts mirroring the reality, the more of a headache it is to deal with on paper.
 
Mathematics is the closest to perfection (some might say God) that a human can ever achieve. It has always amazed me how religious people seek divinity in the ordinary when it is so much more powerful in the extraordinary. I say that if you haven't studied such things as Maxwell's equations, quantum mechanics, or Galois theory, you can't know the true beauty of the universe no matter how many times you read the bible. But, many people think mathematics is useful only to engineers, actuaries, and assorted scientists. So, maybe we don't need to teach much beyond algebra?
 
Math in itself is pretty cool. I prefer it when it's combined with other fields (i.e. Chemistry or Physics) to form a much broader, overall picture.
 
I like math and I'm going to start taking more. I actually found some of the solutions to be kind of creative to Calculus problems. I was going to be a chem major actually but decided against it...I don't like labs.

I don't really know why math would be an intp field in particular or have anything to do with Si. I'd say it's mainly an intuitive field but not just for intps.
 
Math was always my Achilles
 
There seems to be a strong psychological component associated with math that has been labeled "math anxiety." People just have to understand that math is like other subjects. It's not magic that some people have and others don't. Just like any other subject, you have to read the books, do the problems, and, actually, study it!
 
alice144 said:
Any infjs studying math? It feels like such and intp field. Si for all the theorems, rules, etc, Ti, for looking at everything through the prism of logic, often at the expense of what would immediately make sense. It makes me happy because unlike other, even scientific fields of study, there isn't that overwhelming complexity and overabundance of information, facts. Just wondering if anyone had dipped their toes into, say, chemistry, and found that easier to follow. Personally, I find that the closer the science starts mirroring the reality, the more of a headache it is to deal with on paper.
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Math has always been my antithesis. It has been my least favorite subject throughout my education. I am an INFP, though.
 
I enjoy math in a very diffrerent way than I enjoy literature. Literature excites my imagination, it pulls at my emotions, creates conflicts and then resolves them-- it is catharsis. Math is the beauty of simplicity, where everything runs the way it's supposed to, where you have the ease of knowing there is a correct answer and all is well with the world. If I feel understimulated, I pick up a good book. If I feel overstimulated, I relax with math games.

My family is notably odd in that a great many women in it are mathemeticians. My aunt was one of the technicians who worked with Hubble. So I think I was probably born with an ease for math. Yeah, I know it's not fair.:D Someone once told me its because the women in my family are exposed to more testosterone prenatally -- if your ring finger is longer than your index finger, it indicates exposure to testorone during development, and vice versa. Most men have longer ring fingers, and most women have longer index fingers. Mine are the same length.

At any rate, despite my preference for reading and writing, as a teacher I got the reputation for being a killer math teacher. My inner city kids usually tested on average in the 80th percentile in math. Even today, retired from teaching, I get all the neighborhood kids coming over for help with their math homework.

I think most kids who have difficulty with math simply don't have the same opportunity to play games that use math. If parents would just take one afteroon or evening a week to play monopoly or dominoes, we'd see a big difference in school test scores. Teach your kids to play dreidle and they quickly learn how to double. Another thing is cooking -- if kids could just have the opportunity once a week to bake cookies from scratch, they would know their fractions -- tell them to double or triple the recipe, and they aren't thinking "Oh man, that means multiplying fractions," NO, they think, "Wow, MORE COOKES FOR ME!"

And now I will close with an Ode to Multiplication Rock:

[video=youtube;0LZ4j4598ws]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LZ4j4598ws[/video]
 
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I'm generally bad at math because I make little mistakes and don't apply a concept thoroughly/appropriately. That said, I think that one must actively study it and do problems - any textbook will have plenty - to understand mathematics. It's a skill, after all. Any type can learn it, the facility might be a little more fluid for some but the potential is there nonetheless.
 
It's a good subject in itself. Ni works wonders for solving unconventional problems, as to Ni there seems to be little difference between something conventional and something unconventional so long as they are the same in essence. Ti then does the check for correctness, and voila. It's also lovely that everything is self-contained. There is a definite answer but it's not empirical, so you know where you are going and you don't have to worry about whether what you are doing makes sense outside of the problem, because as long as it makes sense internally then it must.

Fe would likely come in through explaining your insight to others. Without this aspect, the INFJ will likely not survive without sufficient application otherwise of their Fe. Explaining/discussing to/with others is perhaps the best way to solidify what is known intuitively, and is also one of the more directly satisfying uses for the material.

Physics is similar to mathematics, and the ability to spatially represent any given problem makes it perhaps much more useful for thought in general (or is the ability of mathematics to represent what space does, but without space, its major strength?). The simplicity of the solution amidst a seemingly complex problem is perhaps analogous of life in general. You don't need to consider everything you know, you just have to consider what is sufficient to determine the solution. (actually, the meta-problem solving aspect of mathematics was what had initially stimulated me, though I found that there was quite little of this involved).

Chemistry I found to be the most stimulating, however like any science, the practical work is incredibly draining, perhaps being why I decided not to go into science. The theoretical side however seems quite lovely, and I really should do some further exploration into the subject to determine any areas which make for nice thought material.
 
bickelz said:
I like math and I'm going to start taking more. I actually found some of the solutions to be kind of creative to Calculus problems. I was going to be a chem major actually but decided against it...I don't like labs.

I don't really know why math would be an intp field in particular or have anything to do with Si. I'd say it's mainly an intuitive field but not just for intps.
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It seems that a lot of the people who made contributions to math must have been intp, because the thinking process I'm seeing in these proofs and theorems appears to be Ti, Ne-Si.

Calculus was a lot easier to grasp using Ni because of its visual element (as it, problems would often deal with constructing a figure in 3d space and then mathematically figuring out the volume, surface area of that figure); I'm having more difficulty with linear algebra because even though the visual element does come into play from time to time, there's still a lot which we're expected to understand on the basis of these long sequences of cumulative logical statements.

Artsu Tharaz said:
Fe would likely come in through explaining your insight to others.
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This is how I make friends with the math majors. :) Well, that is, getting them to explain math to me. :)
 
Calculus was a lot easier to grasp using Ni because of its visual element (as it, problems would often deal with constructing a figure in 3d space and then mathematically figuring out the volume, surface area of that figure); I'm having more difficulty with linear algebra
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I've seen this mentioned a few times, and it's true in my own experience as well. I find a lot of abstract algebra fine, but I never got into linear algebra. I'm sure if I had tried harder I would have understood what was going on on an Ni level, but eh. I'll do that at some point. You need to re-interpret the whole area to make sense of it I think, like "ohhh that's all they meant by an eigenvector".

I found in maths that I only liked going more abstract - converging, not diverging. For this reason a lot of pure maths is quite nice, however the process of applying the maths is not so stimulating. The maths used in theoretical physics looks nice, and from this you have immediately an application for your mathematics in interpreting the universe as a whole (and beyond).


Does anyone have experience in statistics? It looks rather dry, but also useful. The more theoretical side looks good, and as usual, applying it looks ughhh.
 
I'm taking a stats class at a community college. They assume we are stupid right off the bat so they give us the formulas without bothering to explain their meaning or connection to anything. But even from as elementary a course as this one I feel that I am learning something. Sort of. I mean, my sense of it is that it is really hard to understand what a standard deviation is unless you do a bunch of problems with standard deviations in them. I think what they are trying to teach us is to get a feel for the numbers and how they are supposed to fit toghether. Or, possibly, the course is just crap. It's love/hate; on one hand it's the most obviously practical mathematics course I've taken so far, on the other hand, it's not really math as I've known it up to here. My sense of it is that theoretical mathematics tries to be pretty, statistics tries to model the real world, but then as a result is a random and disorganized mess...
 
I got points off for not writing down my formulas. F*** Math and f*** the people that teach it, in my opinion. If I'm right, why the hell should they care how I came to the conclusion?

The only math subjects I enjoyed were the practical real world ones such as logic and statistics. You don't have to memorize a bunch of 500 year old theorems that have no context in which to be explained.

As a stand-alone field/subject, Math is the most counter-intuitive course of study there has to be. Why should I care how to measure the height of a triangle?? They give you no explanation as to why it matters or how it relates to anything. When I started learning about history and architecture in my own time, then I discovered trigonometry actually made sense and had a use. Math + History actually made me want to learn more Math. Math on its own, made me want to gouge my eyes out with a spoon!

The same is true for other fields. I learned how to count and do math in base 16 and base 2 simply because I grew up around computer codes and wondered why memory addresses were given labels with 0-9 and a-f. I also have a binary clock sitting on my desk because I find it intriguing that numbers can be displayed with either a 0 or a 1and there's really no need for all of the others.

I should also add that I never liked the "absolutes" presented in the word problems they gave in math tests/books. My teachers thought I was being a smart-ass when I would ask "why?" to those types of questions. "Why are we measuring the distance the trains traveled?" "Why are we measuring the time of the trip?" If I threw some logic in there, they got really peeved!

Problem: Jim and Anne boarded two trains at (pick a time). The trains departed at (pick a time) traveling at (pick a speed). If they travel to (choose a distance) who will arrive first?
Solution: Unsolvable.

Are there variables that may cause either of them to miss their stop such as lack of sleep or illness?
How well maintained are the engines and the tracks the trains travel on? What are the chances for mechanical failures on either train?
What are the demeanor of the other passengers? Are any of them likely to create a security issue such as wielding a gun or holding hostages?
What are the political stances and response time for the government and local authorities in either of those above cases? Who has jurisdiction?

They didn't start teaching Chaos Theory until I was in college though and my school didn't have any classes in that. I had to look that up on my own after I graduated and then think "Holy sh**! Why didn't they teach me any of this in school???"
 
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