My case that America is not the greatest country on earth...

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Lucifer said:
Not really the "American Dream" has always been a rather specific term referring to a specific set of ideals.


That being said the American dream isn't disagreeable at all. What ticks me off is that people seem to think that America is uniquely able to achieve this dream, that it is the responsibility of Americans to guide backward peoples toward this dream, and that the American system is the only way to achieve this dream. It is simply odd to think that certain persons think this ideal is already manifest.
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I don't think it is odd at all because take for example my dream for acting. In Sweden, it is absolutely impossible to pursue something of similar nature, except for perhaps at small local theaters at most. Realism pervades the ways here, its not even possible to pursue such a career because it is the public real working class labour that are promoted and anything of idealistic sort is obscured.

So then obviously the idealistic America is going to be viewed as the land of opportunity.
 
Janet said:
Are you serious? I can't promise you'll know all these people, but that's not really my fault, is it? They have all made significant contributions to the country at large, however. And they're sucessful, and this is just the tip of the iceberg:

1. Martin Luther King, Jr. (and lots of other Civil Rights leaders)
2. Colin Powell
3. Condoleeza Rice
4. Thurgood Marshall
5. Maya Angelou
6. Jesse Jackson
7. George Washington Carver (revolutionized agriculture)
8. Booker T. Washington (furthered African American businessmen0
9. Will Smith (and a number of other highly-compensated and powerful entertainers)
10. Tiger Woods

Plus there are plenty of "average" sucessful middle- and upper-middle class African Americans, who I know, who have succeeded and done well despite an admittedly unlevel playing field. It is a disservice to ignore these people and their hard work, and to claim that their success is unattainable. Why don't you just go and kick some little black kid in the shins while you're at it and tell him he'll never succeed? Same difference.
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I only asked for a list, not an attack. This is a debate forum not a condescending attack on people who question things.
 
solongotgon said:
Then Colin Powell stays. I just don't like Tyra's attitude and her condescending approach to her shows. but I guess she can be included if you take an overall look at her career which was successful.

100% Blackness has nothing to do with. I just wish they were more of them as public figures.

The ten list is done and approved. I shut up.:m093:
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No! Don't shut up, I like our conversation...

I totally agree, Tyra's show is the pits
 
Yea...but I don't like debating and getting crucified for my doubt of things. Plus everyone is so sensitive about public figures.
mf said:
No! Don't shut up, I like our conversation...

I totally agree, Tyra's show is the pits
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Entyqua said:
My individual dreams can be met anywhere...The American dream is just and NAI said...Propaganda...a fallacy...a way to bring more tax payers into this country to drain them dry...No...it is not the individuals dream...not anymore..
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Its a person's personal inner desire, not in any way induced by the media. To bring more TAX PAYERS HAHA?! If the American dream was a way to bring more people there, then why is it so hard to move there and why are the immigration laws so strict?
 
solongotgon said:
Yea...but I don't like debating and getting crucified for my doubt of things. Plus everyone is so sensitive about public figures.
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Fair enough (but I hope you didn't think I was trying to crucify you or your beliefs...if it appeared that way it wasn't my intention and I apologize)
 
mf said:
Fair enough (but I hope you didn't think I was trying to crucify you or your beliefs...if it appeared that way it wasn't my intention and I apologize)
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Wasn't you. When people start getting an angry "Are you serious?" tone...its time to bounce...lol
 
solongotgon said:
Please name decent African American figures that made a difference to the country at large. If you can name ten. Then I'll shut up. And they have to be people we all know.
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I think my fellow non bigots forgot African American musicians. Here let me help you.

1. Louis Armstrong
2. Nat King Cole
3. Billy Holliday
4. Diana Ross
5. Micheal Jackson
6. Stevie Wonder
7. Dr. Dre
8. James Brown
9. Ray Charles
10. Jimi Hendrix

And the list goes on and on and on and on. Black musicians have had a profound affect on blues, jazz, rock and roll, rap and again the list goes on.

Tell me do you listen to any music at all? If the answer is yes you are listening to the general positive influence that african americans have had on the culture of the whole world not just the US.

Thats actually more then ten influential african americans we got together for yah. And there are lots more.

So will you shut up now?
 
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Pristinegirl said:
Its a person's personal inner desire, not in any way induced by the media. To bring more TAX PAYERS HAHA?! If the American dream was a way to bring more people there, then why is it so hard to move there and why are the immigration laws so strict?
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Its just as difficult if not more difficult for an American to move somewhere else...
 
Pristinegirl said:
I don't think it is odd at all because take for example my dream for acting. In Sweden, it is absolutely impossible to pursue something of similar nature, except for perhaps at small local theaters at most. Realism pervades the ways here, its not even possible to pursue such a career because it is the public real working class labour that are promoted and anything of idealistic sort is obscured.

So then obviously the idealistic America is going to be viewed as the land of opportunity.
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Well I think that specific case has more to do with the fact that the movie industry is huge here. Rather then america being a land of opportunity.

Thats like saying Japan is land of opportunity if you want to go into automobiles.
 
Pristinegirl said:
Wow this is so interesting and has not been discussed before. Lets turn it around, how come? What makes it difficult?
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There are countries, and this is just by hearsay mind you i have never personally looked into getting a permanent residence in another country, that have just as strict guidelines about residency, some that wont even allow anything but temporary visas to Americans...Americans are currently the cockroaches of the world...no one wants us invading their countries...even if its just one of us wanting to move there...
 
Lucifer said:
I think my fellow non bigots forgot African American musicians. Here let me help you.

1. Louis Armstrong
2. Nat King Cole
3. Billy Holliday
4. Diana Ross
5. Micheal Jackson
6. Stevie Wonder
7. Dr. Dre
8. James Brown
9. Ray Charles
10. Jimi Hendrix

And the list goes on and on and on and on. Black musicians have had a profound affect on blues, jazz, rock and roll, rap and again the list goes on.

Tell me do you listen to any music at all? If the answer is yes you are listening to the general positive influence that african americans have had on the culture of the whole world not just the US.

Thats actually more then ten influential african americans we got together for yah. And there are lots more.

So will you shut up now?
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I already shut up. but I love your list.
 
You all know New Zealand is the best, you can stop pretending now.

:m027:
 
We're too good for such boorish chants.

:m052:
 
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