Not allowed to build minarets anymore

Shai Gar said:
Perhaps a simple solution is designing it to look like just any other building outside, and inside the architecture could transport you to a different world. You'd get to please the people who no longer have to look at it, and you'd get to have everything you'd want inside...

Designed with properly sound proof walls and not even your neighbours would know.

Atara, your nation is famed for being conservative, where do you get the liberal side of it?
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That's definitely a possible solution.

I just personally have a hard time regulating what a building looks like, especially in a religious sense. Preservation of architecture is a good thing to have but why should a safely built building have to conform to an appearance code? The people live there and it's just as much their home as it anyone else's, and I think they have the right to build their buildings to look any way they want (granted I don't see this as a huge violation of rights, I just personally think it's plain stupid).
 
Lucifer said:
The spread of Islamic culture generates a lot of friction because it conflicts with values and traditions of European culture. For example a lot of Muslims believe that religious rulings are of higher order than freedom of speech or even the civil government.
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Certain factions of the US think similarly like evangelical christians. Which last I heard accounted for 25% of the United States population. I might not like a lot of what they have to say and but they have a right to say it. So long as my freedom is not directly affected by their insanity I don't have a problem.
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Yeah, but Europeans value freedom higher than security. America doesn't really know what it means to fight for freedom in the same way that Europeans do. Remember WW2? They fought in their homes for it then.


Lucifer said:
Remember the feedback Danes got after publishing those caricatures? Now I consider myself a religious man but I do not have a sudden urge to blow things up every time someone makes fun of the Pope.
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Again this makes me wonder wheather most muslims have a similar impulse. Or is it a minority do you think?
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It seemed that most Muslims I have spoken to absolutely hated that caricacture.
 
mf said:
That's definitely a possible solution.

I just personally have a hard time regulating what a building looks like, especially in a religious sense. Preservation of architecture is a good thing to have but why should a safely built building have to conform to an appearance code? The people live there and it's just as much their home as it anyone else's, and I think they have the right to build their buildings to look any way they want (granted I don't see this as a huge violation of rights, I just personally think it's plain stupid).
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I don't think it is their home if they're not trying to integrate.

They obviously feel in their bones that wherever they came from is their home still.
 
Shai Gar said:
I don't think it is their home if they're not trying to integrate.

They obviously feel in their bones that wherever they came from is their home still.
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I define a home where ever you live, granted other people might define it differently. I don't think anyone can/should be forced to integrate into a culture in order to have a say about something as trivial as a building when they live and partake in the community.
 
Kaipaus said:
I felt perplexed: why would anyone feel that this kind of law is necessary?
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I wonder a lot too. In my impression Swiss folks are quite patient, calm, dedicated, hardworking, not much unlike the cow I posted earlier. Something must have gone quite overboard for them to act so extremely.

Unfortunately (for such a beautiful place), there's too much money, based there, and too little involvement with international politics, so in times of crisis, well, the eyes could easily turn that way and provoke conflicts. As I put it earlier, there's a great need of hugs somewhere.
 
I don't agree with changing peoples culture based on the culture of the immigrants.

I wouldn't try this in Saudi Arabia... Oh wait, I wouldn't be allowed to anyway.
 
enfp can be shy said:
I wonder a lot too. In my impression Swiss folks are quite patient, calm, dedicated, hardworking, not much unlike the cow I posted earlier. Something must have gone quite overboard for them to act so extremely.

Unfortunately (for such a beautiful place), there's too much money, based there, and too little involvement with international politics, so in times of crisis, well, the eyes could easily turn that way and provoke conflicts. As I put it earlier, there's a great need of hugs somewhere.
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They're calm, patient, dedicated, loyal and hard-working people.
They don't want things to change around them.

My Uncle is from Switzerland. He's a great guy, very polite and understanding of other cultures. He never gets upset about someone elses culture when he's in their country (he flies abroad a LOT), but he likes his country to be like a rock.
 
enfp can be shy said:
I wonder a lot too. In my impression Swiss folks are quite patient, calm, dedicated, hardworking, not much unlike the cow I posted earlier. Something must have gone quite overboard for them to act so extremely.

Unfortunately (for such a beautiful place), there's too much money, based there, and too little involvement with international politics, so in times of crisis, well, the eyes could easily turn that way and provoke conflicts. As I put it earlier, there's a great need of hugs somewhere.
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Add paranoid and protective to your list and it's pretty much complete.
Oh yes, hugs would do wonders! If it weren't 2 am in the morning at my end of the world, I'd go out on the street and hug people.
Shai Gar is right, we don't like things to change. But a little revolution now and then really wouldn't do much harm.
 
I didn't read all the replies but I will at some point.

I am sitting here in Western Canada, Bible belt territory (although getting less like that every day) trying to imagine what would happen if women wearing burkas started showing up on our streets or moving in to my neighbourhood. Or if mosques with minarets started popping up in the communities. I don't think it would go over very well.

Our Government might say, "OK, we need to decide now before this gets out of hand - we'll let the people vote."

And, I think the majority of people would vote against the burka and minarets. In my part of the country anyway.

They would not only feel their culture was threatened but also their God. You can talk to people until you're blue in the face about the loving and peaceful Islam but inside they're thinking about Ayatolla's, world domination and 911.
 
Shai Gar said:
I don't agree with changing peoples culture based on the culture of the immigrants.

I wouldn't try this in Saudi Arabia... Oh wait, I wouldn't be allowed to anyway.
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Good point. If you think about it, the minarets are more a cultural thing than they are a religious thing. But they should have said that it was a cultural thing instead of linking it directly to "Islamic law."
 
sumone said:
You can talk to people until you're blue in the face about the loving and peaceful Islam but inside they're thinking about Ayatolla's, world domination and 911.
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Yeah, but wasn't the Ayatolla put in there by the CIA who wanted someone who'd favour the Americans by NOT nationalising their oil?
 
Oh yeah, who our friends and enemies are changes all the time, depending on what the media reports or who needs what.
I'm just saying what the mindset is like here.
 
Billy said:
Why is it stupid? If the muslims want those things they can do them back home in their muslim countries. There is a serious time bomb going on in Europe with the Muslim populations. I am guessing that when they get around to being 50% or so of the population they will start the massacres of non muslims, like they do everywhere else they go.
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Correct me if I misunderstand your logic:

  • There are too many Muslims in Europe.
  • If they are not suppressed, they will take over Europe and start killing everyone else.
  • If European countries pass laws to make the continent inhospitable for Muslims, then the Muslims will go back to the Middle East.
  • Since that is a desirable result, the Swiss should do all this and more to make the Muslims go away.
Oh, that's just lovely. *facepalm* Has it occurred to you that such conduct on the part of Europeans would (justifiably) piss off many Muslims? Has it occurred to you that keeping Muslims isolated from western culture will only contribute to the already rampant problem of hatred and dehumanization of those outside the faith? Has it occurred to you that persecution begets resentment, which begets violence?



Shai Gar said:
Since this is all about architecture, Arabic architecture should stay in Arabia.
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All about architecture, really? If they went ahead and banned mosques altogether (as some apparently wish), would that too be "all about architecture"?
 
TheLastMohican said:
Shai Gar said:
Since this is all about architecture, Arabic architecture should stay in Arabia.
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All about architecture, really? If they went ahead and banned mosques altogether (as some apparently wish), would that too be "all about architecture"?
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Then I'd be against it, as I was the Burkha Ban.

However, I've been into a lot of churches that, from the outside look nothing like churches, and inside, look a shitload like European cathedrals.

It's all about Architectural Design.
 
Shai Gar said:
Then I'd be against it, as I was the Burkha Ban.

However, I've been into a lot of churches that, from the outside look nothing like churches, and inside, look a shitload like European cathedrals.

It's all about Architectural Design.
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Technically, perhaps. But I very much doubt that's what most of those Swiss voters had in mind.
 
TheLastMohican said:
Technically, perhaps. But I very much doubt that's what most of those Swiss voters had in mind.
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That's because of the false misconception that has been attached to the minarets, that minarets were a symbol of "Islamic law and segregation." I can see banning minarets as not really horrible and probably acceptable if you consider the arguments that enfp can be shy and Shai made, but the reasoning that they presented behind it is a problem because it is going to feed the islamophobes.
 
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If they simply write it into the building code... That'd solve everything.
 
fly away said:
That's because of the false misconception that has been attached to the minarets, that minarets were a symbol of "Islamic law and segregation." I can see banning minarets as not really horrible and probably acceptable if you consider the arguments that enfp can be shy and Shai made, but the reasoning that they presented behind it is a problem because it is going to feed the islamophobes.
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I can see some good reasons for banning minarets... but not by calling them minarets. If I can go and build a chrome-plated tower of the same size and shape of a standard minaret that is not attached to a mosque — while those minarets that are clearly related to Islam are banned — then the law amounts to religious oppression. In the same way, burkas may be banned indirectly by being included in a ban on full-body-and-face coverings, but if only burkas are being banned, it is religious oppression.

If it's really supposed to be about architectural preferences, then it had better be spelled out in logical architectural terms, not just according to what religion or what kind church the structure is attached to.
 
I think books should be banned too. Only certain ones though. Catcher in the Rye, books like that.

In Santa Fe, NM, there are a lot of building laws, one of which requires you to make your house out of adobe.

In other parts of the US there are laws that require that you keep your lawn tidy.

I'm enough of an anarchist to hate and despise these laws, but they have been decided long ago, and are on the books. If the minaret thing were simply about wanting to keep an Alp-like design, that would be one thing, but the architecture in question is provoking a wider, more distasteful sentiment.
 
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