Oh dear, Egypt is going south.

slant said:
Does not dispute the fact that our worries are solely about oil.
Click to expand...

It refutes that the canal is of value for our oil trade
 
That proves that at best it is a minor contribution to our need for the Suez canal. Considering US oil import is predominately Saudi and is put on supertankers that still don't fit in the Suez canal this is more of an issue for the world than the US.
 
Kavalan said:
That proves that at best it is a minor contribution to our need for the Suez canal. Considering US oil import is predominately Saudi and is put on supertankers that still don't fit in the Suez canal this is more of an issue for the world than the US.
Click to expand...
...an issue about oil.
 
slant said:
...an issue about oil.
Click to expand...

not for the better part of our supplies... they are Saudi in origin and are put on tankers that do not fit through the suez... it is an insignificant issue at best.
 
[MENTION=528]slant[/MENTION]

Dear child, this has nothing to do with Oil. First of all, Egypt doesn't own substantial amounts of Oil to be any interest of yours in that aspect.

Two, the Tunisian revolution (which sparked the Egyptian revolution in return) was completely unpredictable. If you are to do a lil bit more research on the topic (like I know you to do) and track down the beginning of the movement, you would realize that all of this gained momentum on its own because of someone's honest cry for justice.

The U.S. and their friends are completely irrelevant in this at the moment (they may become relevant later, who knows). So sit tight and watch, this should be interesting.

To add to the thread:

The countries that one might expect to have plotted this or may benefit somehow form it are completely thrown off track and uncertain of what position to take on how the events have unfolded. Generally, when there is a political game at play you would quickly recognize who the main players are and what is to be won. In this case, I see only two players; the Egyptian people and Mubarak's government and regime, and freedom and democracy at stake.

Everything else, including the Muslim Brotherhood and others, will have their own game once this one unravels. Before then you can't really predict what's going to happen, because the experts at many intelligence agencies weren't able to predict this one.

I do think that if they are to achieve what they want, the Egyptians will have a few setbacks, failures, and a price to pay before they get the lifestyle they aspire to. They have been subject to oppression for 30 years (that's 3 decades of somebody's lifetime) and so there will be unsettled baby steps before they get to enjoy the luxuries and freedom we enjoy over here.

There is no such thing as a presidency for 30 years that you can then pass on to your son, as the current Egyptian president was planning on doing. They have the right to elect a president they trust to have the country's and their best interests at heart and be able to hold him accountable when he starts collecting a personal fortune of 40 to 70 billion dollars stolen from the country's revenue. Such a simple concept to us, right? Yet it's been a dream for many of the people our age over there.

I am not one to meddle with politics in general, but this surely got me inspired and interested. I support what they are calling for and I do hope that the ones who are honest about this prevail.

So please watch with a critical eye free of any assumptions and prejudice and maybe you can really see what's playing infront of you.

Also, there are a couple of well informed posts I've read on here, keep 'em coming guys. :thumb:
 
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Odyne said:
[MENTION=528]slant[/MENTION]

Dear child, this has nothing to do with Oil. First of all, Egypt doesn't own substantial amounts of Oil to be any interest of yours in that aspect.

Two, the Tunisian revolution (which sparked the Egyptian revolution in return) was completely unpredictable. If you are to do a lil bit more research on the topic (like I know you to do) and track down the beginning of the movement, you would realize that all of this gained momentum on its own because of someone's honest cry for justice.

The U.S. and their friends are completely irrelevant in this at the moment (they may become relevant later, who knows). So sit tight and watch, this should be interesting.

To add to the thread:

The countries that one might expect to have plotted this or may benefit somehow form it are completely thrown off track and uncertain of what position to take on how the events have unfolded. Generally, when there is a political game at play you would quickly recognize who the main players are and what is to be won. In this case, I see only two players; the Egyptian people and Mubarak's government and regime, and freedom and democracy at stake.

Everything else, including the Muslim Brotherhood and others, will have their own game once this one unravels. Before then you can't really predict what's going to happen, because the experts at many intelligence agencies weren't able to predict this one.

I do think that if they are to achieve what they want, the Egyptians will have a few setbacks, failures, and a price to pay before they get the lifestyle they aspire to. They have been subject to oppression for 30 years (that's 3 decades of somebody's lifetime) and so there will be unsettled baby steps before they get to enjoy the luxuries and freedom we enjoy over here.

There is no such thing as a presidency for 30 years that you can then pass on to your son, as the current Egyptian president was planning on doing. They have the right to elect a president they trust to have the country's and their best interests at heart and be able to hold him accountable when he starts collecting a personal fortune of 40 to 70 billion dollars stolen from the country's revenue. Such a simple concept to us, right? Yet it's been a dream for many of the people our age over there.

I am not one to meddle with politics in general, but this surely got me inspired and interested. I support what they are calling for and I do hope that the ones who are honest about this prevail.

So please watch with a critical eye free of any assumptions and prejudice and maybe you can really see what's playing infront of you.

Also, there are a couple of well informed posts I've read on here, keep 'em coming guys. :thumb:
Click to expand...

I rest my case. This proves it all.
 
bamf said:
Is this before or after he was an ally of the United States?
Click to expand...

What a mess we have gotten ourselves into, Ollie. ; )

2465549536_78d08462c3.jpg


My Dad always said war makes for strange bedfellows...
 
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acd said:
But I was only stating that the protests didn't start out violent... They're calling for democracy, I didn't hear anything about them wanting the Muslim Brotherhood to take over and implement Sharia law. The Muslim Brotherhood wants to take over, but I haven't heard that the people want that. Or am I wrong? Somebody?
Click to expand...

[MENTION=564]acd[/MENTION]

You are correct. The protesters did not start out violently. It was was peacefully organized through means of communication that were later on suspended and blocked by the government in an attempt to suppress the uprisings which have obviously backfired.
 
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slant said:
Does not dispute the fact that our worries are solely about oil.
Click to expand...

Almost anything that threatens the stability of the region rises oil prices.....wonder who benefits the most from that?

Happy 2300th post, jm.
 
slant said:
That the USA has no reason other than oil to care about Egypt.
Click to expand...

That is incorrect. Egypt is the US's top wheat costumer as well as the world's biggest grain importer. What do you think the recent political unease has done to the shipments and the market in general?

Slant, do your research.
 
Odyne said:
That is incorrect. Egypt is the US's top wheat costumer as well as the world's biggest grain importer. What do you think the recent political unease has done to the shipments and the market in general?

Slant, do your research.
Click to expand...

I refuse to do research
 
Al Queda cells from Gaza are being moved into Sinai to help Hamas and "other terrorist groups" destroy oil pipelines leading to Israel and Jordan, leaving the borders open for smuggling of arms into Israel. No doubt this will become another front against Israel if the militaries do nothing more about it. Such a peaceful protest....
 
slant said:
I refuse to do research
Click to expand...

That doesn't help your credibility.

I'll add that this doesn't have to revolve around economic concerns. Mubarak upheld Sadat's peace with Israel, making Egypt a rare friend (or at least a committed non-aggressor) in the region. So US politicians have been content to have an dictatorial friend rather than a democratic enemy. (That's why Fox News has been railing against the protesters, in seeming contradiction to typical Tea Party ideology.) What economic advantages does Israel offer the US? Not many. But well-ingrained in our political psyche is the idea that Israel is always right, partly due to its perceived status as the "Holy Land" where our Biblical heritage lives on. So we expend a lot of time and energy taking its side in Middle Eastern conflicts.
 
TheLastMohican said:
That doesn't help your credibility.

I'll add that this doesn't have to revolve around economic concerns. Mubarak upheld Sadat's peace with Israel, making Egypt a rare friend (or at least a committed non-aggressor) in the region. So US politicians have been content to have an dictatorial friend rather than a democratic enemy. (That's why Fox News has been railing against the protesters, in seeming contradiction to typical Tea Party ideology.) What economic advantages does Israel offer the US? Not many. But well-ingrained in our political psyche is the idea that Israel is always right, partly due to its perceived status as the "Holy Land" where our Biblical heritage lives on. So we expend a lot of time and energy taking its side in Middle Eastern conflicts.
Click to expand...

Mubarak was a fighter pilot and war hero in the Yom Kippur War against Israel. Easy to see you have done your research. There is an up side to keeping peace with Israel in that area and others could learn from that. While the protests seem peaceful on TV, Sinai and the likes have become open war zones to cause problems for Egypt. Israel could actually help Egypt there right now, and it would be to their own benefit also; not just Egypt's. In the long term view of the situation, it would help stabilize the entire region.

The banks of the Suez Canal have become dump sites for smugglers trying to destroy Israel. There are far deeper reasons the "people" are stepping over their heads to "help oust Mubarak".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War
 
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I got a feeling slant was...

tro--
consciously being a je--

....just being slant. : ]

CMIIW?

The next step? I hope they don't do it...wrong..this is coming from a resident from another country with a 32 years long dictat-- president.
On the other hand, I'm afraid they will go towards Indonesia's path; To bring a little perspective, after the change of the previous Indonesian regime, our politician and public have been so...
a) comfortable / used to / adapted to the previous regime, the change did little to change people's morale, values, and methods themselves, so in the end it's turned into an excuse to achieve their own means especially the older people, who would make most of the government, who would entrust their values to their childrens, who would spread it around...you get idea. The thing about dictators is they oppress people, yes; but they also oppress those who would rob the country for their own means, and that by itself is another form of protection, in the 'you kill my enemy, you are my ally' kind of thing. (not necessarily enemy of the enemy is my friend).

b) euphoric and deluded with the promise of change, a LOT of people are hopeful it will be overnight, and result in a state of entropy and/or stagnancy over the next...years..decades, for the worst.

c) unrestrained, everyone is going up, down, left and right, towards their own personal / group means. So that means, religious extremists, famewhores, scandals, conflicting goals and beliefs and importance, and basically stagnancy.

over many, MANY things.
Hopefully not happening there. Hopefully not. Hopefully there are a lot of people with good morals and characters who would ensure that Egypt grows as much as their own wallets.
 
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