Oh dear, Egypt is going south.

TheLastMohican said:
And? That doesn't change the fact that he has upheld Egypt's peace with Israel.
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I cannot understand how the people have been turned against him so easily, listening to those trying to overthrow the government. I agree with you totally.

quote Trifoilum in part "The thing about dictators is they oppress people, yes; but they also oppress those who would rob the country for their own means, and that by itself is another form of protection,..." unquote........
I like the way that was put. I never dreamed Iran would be left to do as they please the way they have after removing the regime in Iraq.

I think everyone today over there in the streets was "google-eyed".

People can be so much like the piranha: one person takes a bite, followed by another, followed by the frenzy. I really do not think people are looking down the road very well, but I guess I could be looking at something different? Maybe...

Hope this will end soon and we will not have to hear the words "third temple" and "DefCon 3" again.
 
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just me said:
I cannot understand how the people have been turned against him so easily
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It might have something to do with the $70 billion Mubarak has stashed away whilst in office. Meanwhile the average person on the street is being crushed by the economic pressure of the global crisis

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=23822

We're gonna see a lot more civil unrest and far closer to home as well.
 
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/egyp...ulated-wealth-days-military/story?id=12821073

See the world; we are in a global financial crisis. Egypt is indifferent from many other countries around the world. Has anyone heard a voice from the streets with a solution so we all can use it in our own economies? Instead, they are stopping the flow of everything essential to living. They will all starve in the streets at the rate they are going if someone does not stop it. The leaders of this revolution are leading the people over a cliff into the sea.

I remember watching "Get Smart" as a kid on TV. The two forces fighting each other were called Control and Chaos.

Do I have it rough right now? Yes. I was asked today how things were going and I said there were many people around the world much worse off than myself. Such is life. I hope the people misleading these poor followers have enough money to buy their way out of this. People should expend their energies trying to find solutions rather than adding to the problems, but who am I to tell someone in Egypt what to do I ask you?

I am reminded of the strike back when the air traffic controllers all lost their jobs here.
 
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What I want to know is WHY the US is sticking their political noses into this. Who are we to tell that country what to do?

On another note: The people think they are fighting for justice.

This is from the BBC today:
"This is not about our wages, this is about holding those in power accountable and about getting our freedoms," Soha Mohammed, who works at the hospital, told the AFP news agency.
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I know - I know Just Me. We have seen these riots and uprisings happen throughout our lives and nothing good has come of them.
Look at the break up of the Soviet Union. Gorbechev led the people, the Berlin wall came down, and people were set free from Russia. And they got Putin and corruption to the max anyway.
I remember reading about leadership demonstrated by the Catholic bishop of Poland. He led his people to a new level of confidence and self esteem as a country. He later went on to become Pope John Paul. And fell into the quicksand of politics as usual.
Look at what happened in Iran - as you mentioned.
I'm even reminded of what I learned from Marx's piece on Alienation and Exploitation. He helped spur a revolution and those in power embraced it, manipulated it, and then profited from it. It led Russia into so called communism and they ended up with Stalin. Ugh...(btw - Marx's ideas of humanity were correct imo.)

I still can't shake the notion that by doing this - it is good for people's hearts. Their Hearts. They are standing up for the right to be HUMAN - not a machine - not a slave. No matter the outcome - I am in awe of their courage and pray for their survival.
 
I agree the way Obama has handled our friends in Egypt is wrong. The way he handled his conversation with Abdullah today is wrong. I wish Obama would step down, but will not go out in the streets over it. My heart is tired, maybe. Maybe my heart knows better. Maybe my heart disagrees with their expressions and the way they are expressing. It is my heart that feels it is wrong. It is my mind, however, that sees a people being manipulated. My heart does not like that.
 
just me said:
I agree the way Obama has handled our friends in Egypt is wrong. The way he handled his conversation with Abdullah today is wrong. I wish Obama would step down, but will not go out in the streets over it. My heart is tired, maybe. Maybe my heart knows better. Maybe my heart disagrees with their expressions and the way they are expressing. It is my heart that feels it is wrong.

It is my mind, however, that sees a people being manipulated. My heart does not like that.
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Yes. You and I both feel the same way here.
It's both heart breaking and joyful to witness seeing them fight for their freedom to be.
But it must be done - again and again until we finally either fade away into so much dust -or - realize that we are all one and the same.

I wish you some peace today. :hug:
 
I like the way that was put. I never dreamed Iran would be left to do as they please the way they have after removing the regime in Iraq.

I think everyone today over there in the streets was "google-eyed".
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Agreed. It is not so much being manipulated, as being too clouded to see the future impacts.
And it might be hasty, rushed, and only brings further chaos in the game, but there's nothing wrong about it. Think of it in their perspective.

When playing with the system turns you against the people you intend to protect, and opposing the system guarantees you instant imprisonment (in my country, instant 'disappearing', if you know what I mean), what's there to do?
 
Trifoilum said:
Agreed. It is not so much being manipulated, as being too clouded to see the future impacts.
And it might be hasty, rushed, and only brings further chaos in the game, but there's nothing wrong about it. Think of it in their perspective.

When playing with the system turns you against the people you intend to protect, and opposing the system guarantees you instant imprisonment (in my country, instant 'disappearing', if you know what I mean), what's there to do?
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I honestly have not been myself in that situation, so must only conjecture I would not turn against those I were to protect.

The people have an answer they will not fully understand today, and possibly never understand.
 
This section of an article about the unrest in Iran really really bothers me. Am I that naive to think legislators/lawmakers should not be bloodthirsty zealots?

TEHRAN, Iran — Hardline Iranian lawmakers called on Tuesday for the country's opposition leaders to face trial and be put to death, a day after clashes between opposition protesters and security forces left one person dead and dozens injured.
Hundreds of thousands of people turned out for the opposition rally Monday in solidarity with Egypt's popular revolt that toppled President Hosni Mubarak after nearly 30 years in power. The demonstration was the first major show of strength from Iran's beleaguered opposition in more than a year.
1,500 people have reportedly been arrested.


At an open session of parliament Tuesday, pro-government legislators demanded opposition leaders Mir Hossein Mousavi, Mahdi Karroubi and former reformist President Mohammad Khatami face be held responsible for the protests.


Pumping their fists in the air, the lawmakers chanted "death to Mousavi, Karroubi and Khatami."


"We believe the people have lost their patience and demand capital punishment" for the opposition leaders, 221 lawmakers said in a statement.


Hardliners have long sought to put senior opposition figures on trial, but the calls for the death penalty signaled an escalation in their demands.
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/15/iran-opposition-leaders-s_n_823303.html
 
I don't see you as being naive. I sense concern and disbelief in human nature.

In the meantime, where is the gas going from Egypt that was going to Israel?

People have a right to be upset with situations and circumstances, but they should have a better idea before taking it to the streets.

Iran wants to destroy anyone that is against their radical Islamic regime. I would like to see the current regime out of power. I will not go in the streets and publicize it in Iran, but may go behind closed doors to do something about it. If I were to do so, I had best be ready with something to take its place and quell any further violence.
 
just me said:
I don't see you as being naive. I sense concern and disbelief in human nature.

In the meantime, where is the gas going from Egypt that was going to Israel?

People have a right to be upset with situations and circumstances, but they should have a better idea before taking it to the streets.

Iran wants to destroy anyone that is against their radical Islamic regime. I would like to see the current regime out of power. I will not go in the streets and publicize it in Iran, but may go behind closed doors to do something about it. If I were to do so, I had best be ready with something to take its place and quell any further violence.
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I don't think you are being very impartial here Just Me

Why does every resource need to go to Israel? Why are they a priority in the world? They have a comparitively tiny population and are already extremely wealthy

Also why shouldn't people take their grievances to the street? They cannot operate within a corrupt system which is designed by the capitalist class to protect the interests of the capitalist class. They cannot go to the police as the police are the hired thugs of the capitalist class and have imprisoned and tortured and murdered people who have spoken out against the system.

Why does Iran want to destroy everyone? If Iran is trying to develop a nuclear bomb it is because it is terrifed of the neo-imperialist manouvres of the US/Israel alliance and is trying to protect it's own interests for example it's pipeline which could offer an alternative one to the one the US has built in Afghanistan which the US invaded and is occupying and has installed its own puppet government in, lead by an ex oil industry advisor.

You say you want the Iranian regime out of power, but if you travelled outside of the US you might be surprised to find out that most of the rest of the world would like to see the US regime put out of power.

Iran isn't occupying any countries. it isn't invading any countries....how about the US...can the US say that? No because they are the playground bully.
 
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I'm sorry for not mentioning that of Jordan, too.

quote"I don't think you are being very impartial here Just Me" unquote
That's just me, if you please. I do not hide the fact I do not like the Iranian President and his rantings about the destruction of Israel. He is so intelligent he denies the Holocaust. Go figure.

No more swapping of words with you about this. We are who we are, you and I.

I'm not a big fan of our current President, either.
 
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After I read your question about the natural gas issue, I searched for a clue. The news said it would take them about ten days to have the pipeline back in operation. Since the explosion happened around the 5th, I figure gas should start flowing soon.
 
K-gal said:
After I read your question about the natural gas issue, I searched for a clue. The news said it would take them about ten days to have the pipeline back in operation. Since the explosion happened around the 5th, I figure gas should start flowing soon.
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Thanks for the update. Please remind me when it is in service to prior contracts again. Today is the 15th.
 
[URL="http://forums.infjs.com/[MENTION=1871 said:
muir[/MENTION]"][MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION][/URL];418883].....
You say you want the Iranian regime out of power, but if you travelled outside of the US you might be surprised to find out that most of the rest of the world would like to see the US regime put out of power.

Iran isn't occupying any countries. it isn't invading any countries....how about the US...can the US say that? No because they are the playground bully.
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I agree with you Muir.
Alas...the US is a bully I'm sorry to say. Actually, the culture we came from are the bullies of this world in this age. England, Germany, Spain. The Catholic Church. Those are a few I can think of - and they are most certainly our heritage here in the US.

I wonder who the bullies were before the West?

Pol Pot?
Mao?
Stalin?

All of those guys were in the age of Christ too.

It seems never ending to me - all this fear and hatred.

Why did they kill Socrates?
 
I don't think he has denied the holocaust.....i think someone would have to be deranged to do so

What he has done is questioned the extent of it and the way in which it is represented in the west. He feels that the jews aren't the only people who have suffered genocide and that the holocaust is used as an emotional tool to garner support for the modern day acts of Israel and feels that claims by the west about the holocaust might be exagerated.

The argument seems to go....we were persocuted by the Nazis so why shouldn't we be able to persecute the Palestineans?

Not really much of an argument is it?
 
K-gal, I sure am glad all us bullies got together and stopped Hitler and his allies. I heard on TV during a subcommittee hearing where the Dominican Republic was the only country openly accepting Jews during those times.

One might be surprised how the Catholic Church would not come to the aid of Constantinople if they did not pay homage to the Pope(1452-53). It is interesting to see where they stood regarding WWII, also.

I cannot deal with a world leader that just wants to kill off a people in these modern days.
 
just me said:
K-gal, I sure am glad all us bullies got together and stopped Hitler and his allies. I heard on TV during a subcommittee hearing where the Dominican Republic was the only country openly accepting Jews during those times.

One might be surprised how the Catholic Church would not come to the aid of Constantinople if they did not pay homage to the Pope(1452-53). It is interesting to see where they stood regarding WWII, also.

I cannot deal with a world leader that just wants to kill off a people in these modern days.
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See that's what i'm talking about right there!

You are using an event which had nothing to do with the Palestineans to try to persuade people emotionally into supporting your christian zionist views to the exclusion of recognition of the human rights of the Palestineans.

Do you believe that the creation of a zionist state will beckon in the second coming of jesus christ?
 
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