ONLY him/her FOREVER

[testing]

Ahem... not to beat a dead horse or anything, but for the record, I am genX, not a baby boomer, and lived through the implosion/explosion of all the baby boomer's marriages.

 

[testing]

I get it. I really do. All I was saying was that this is not a baby boomer vs. younger generation thing. You indicated that it was only the baby boomers who were defending marriage, and that is not necessarily true.

 

[MrWindUpBird]

I don't think there's a HOLE in my rationale

okay maybe I'll explain further... the reason why I kind of hate relationships.. is that seeing from my parents the kind of relationship they have, it makes me think that okay... they're my parents... I respect them and I love them... they do not really kind of love me and I sometimes do look up to them... and seeing them do things like !?!!? crazy things makes me kind of lose hope in trying to find people who can sustain a relationship because eventually.. most probably I think people who aren't contented with their relationship/ partner will find another....

it's like seeing your role model before as perfect, you know... someone who you trust.. the one you get support from..all along you entrusted a lot of things to them then one day... you see their flaws......

in my case, when I see a lot of flaws in my family, it kinda makes an impact to what I see the world to be... because you know.. my family means a lot to me

and if you don't understand that I don't mind ahahahaha then maybe for you there's a HOLE in my rationale

oh and... I just HATE polygamous relationship.....
well if your partner is someone without morals then go on and sleep with random strangers... but can't one be sensitive enough to his/her partner?

well I don't really mind if other people want it..but I wouldn't want someone polygamous... I don't want to marry someone who will sleep with other people then go back to our house and act like nothing is wrong
maybe it's part of my culture and my religion..
well that's just me

Sounds a lot like my family. I was lucky enough to be graduating high school when all of the bad things came out, but my three younger siblings (one of whom was 3 at the time) weren't so lucky. That poisonous environment had gotten worse over the last two years. I agree that it's depressing that even your own parents can't keep it together.

However, I have a different view of marriage than most people. When I find the woman whose eyes pierce me like lightening and whose words linger in my mind, I'll know I'm in love, but I won't mistake the feeling for something eternal. This infatuation love helps draw people together, but people get bored of anyone after a length of time. It's natural.

A lot people see old couples who sleep in different beds and hardly talk and think, "Gee, how depressing, they've been married for 50 years and their love just melted away." I think that having (probably) raised children together and living in close proximity to each other for the majority of their lifetimes is a surer sign of love than cuddling or flirting or sex.

I'm a hopeless romantic, but this is something that I have to force myself to view using mostly reason.

 

[Ria]

1. Marriage is not an "artificial construct." That is, it is not an ersatz substitution for something that is "real." Marriage of some kind is found in just about every culture, primitive or advanced, on earth. Indeed, it is a cultural construct that exists for several important reasons.

2. Marriage protects the rights of children. It defines their responsible guardians, their inheritance rights, their relationships to extended family, etc.

3. Marriage provides a legal framework for property rights between spouses, their children, and extended family.

4. Marriage provides a legal framework for how people behave with each other and for their mutual responsibilities to each other.

5. Marriage provides social context. It is a relationship between two people that defines not only their mutual relationship, but how they relate to society in general. It is also an economic unit within the greater social environment.

Has marriage historically embodied gender inequality? Yes, but things have changed and continue to change. Can you be a legal guardian without being married? Yes. Can you designate heirs without being married? Yes. So what? There's diversity and flexibility in modern society, as there should be.

We have a friend who lived with a woman for 26 years without being married. She died in a car accident. Her children inherited the house and he was evicted, left with nothing from his lover. This is reality, folks. Then again, nobody is forcing you to get married.

I've been married to my INFJ wife for 33 years. We love each other now as much, or more, than ever. We've weathered terrible stresses together, ranging from my wife's medical residency (before they limited on-call hours), to the risks I took starting three businesses, to years-long contract (business) law suits (we prevailed). We've raised two sons who are happy and successful. We've regularly put ourselves in situations that were beyond our comfort zones and at odds with our personalities because one must do so to get anywhere in life. Life is full of stress, but having a life-long, loving, intimate relationship is one of the great comforts and supports in life. In general, married people are healthier, happier, and economically better off than unmarried people.

Many people disparage and deprecate marriage. I think some have had bad experiences from which they unfairly and unreasonably generalize. Others are afraid of marriage and the commitments it entails. Some people have the totally unrealistic expectation that one's partner must fulfill all their expectations and accommodate all their needs (if this were the case, who would need friends?). There are many ways to criticize the institution of marriage, yet it persists. If marriage were unimportant and of no use, it would die. But, people keep trying.

Marriage is not for the self-centered or the immature. To be happily married, it helps to listen, to share values, to pick your battles carefully, to be kind, and to take joy in your spouse's success. Finally, it helps to be lucky.

ed: One last bit. It's better to get divorced before marriage.

I believe very strongly too, that you should marry it when it feels like the next most natural step to take. I'm a believer in taking things slow, and feeling very sure and certain of the direction things are going. Also, to weather hard times together, so that there's proof that you can work together as a team, and grow as individuals at the same time. It helps to have comon goals and dreams, even if your personalities are very different.

 

[dualhammers]

The posts on this thread on remind me how much good INFJs can let disappointment affect their judgement to the point where they start believing absolutely moronic things in order to justify their feelings of disappointment with how life actually functions.

Love exists.

Marriage exists.

Marriage is not a evil tool of government overlords.

If you are not a strong enough individual to actually stick out marriage, then don't get married, and don't complain when relationships fail.

The downside of being INFJ is that most of the people I most connect with are arrogant wackos.

 

[Norton]

The married people on this thread have mentioned the values which have enabled their relationships to work (they keep using the word 'marriage' instead of 'relationship'!!!!!!!).....i would argue it is these that have made their union a success and not the looming stick of the law, placed there by having signed a marriage contract

If people stay together because they are afraid of the legal implications of reneging on a marriage contract....well I don't know if that is healthy or in people's best interests.......better to build the right relationship in the first place and not rush into marriage because they think this is the correct thing to do under social convention

Usually, people fall in love before they marry. Marriage is a legal embodiment of a loving relationship. That's specifically all it is. It's not Big Brother, the dreaded government, forcing people into a stringent contract from which escape is impossible. Usually, people marry because they want to. The word "marriage" has also come to mean in usual parlance, "relationship." Indeed, it is a particular kind of relationship that implies more than just "living together."

A lot people see old couples who sleep in different beds and hardly talk and think, "Gee, how depressing, they've been married for 50 years and their love just melted away." I think that having (probably) raised children together and living in close proximity to each other for the majority of their lifetimes is a surer sign of love than cuddling or flirting or sex.

I'm a hopeless romantic, but this is something that I have to force myself to view using mostly reason.

You should be more optimistic. We've been married 33 years, still sleep in the same bed, cuddle, flirt, have sex, and, also, have raised children. We still love each other, despite the legalities of marriage. I'm also a hopeless romantic, even though I'm an extreme "T."

 

[Naxx]

Easy, in this world people tell themselves lies and often tells lies to other people.

They create their life based on lies and lies do not lead to contentment and/or happiness . A life without satisfaction/happiness will ultimately lead to destruction.

 

[Ecton]

For my wife and I, marriage is about two people who are better off together than apart having a family and enjoying life together. I think this can be a very difficult subject to discuss because a working relationship is both sacred and sometimes unspoken. Its almost like looking inside the Golden Goose to see where the golden eggs come from, and then ruining everything. An irrational fear, perhaps....

We've only been married 8 years, and dating for 11. We have plenty of work to do. Throwing kids into the equation made a lot of things harder. In order to make it work you have to continue to live together as you change. This is where the cliches start because they are often true. Most of the ones others have posted I also agree with. Here's some more to smother you with: The last thing you can do is develop pockets of thinking you can't share with your spouse. If you can't have space for your own friends you might be in trouble. Add to this list of simplistic phrases the idea that marriage is about wanting to see the other person's life played out. Also consider that you don't know half as much about someone as you should after 10 years. And maybe even throw in the usual "you have to work at it." Why not? Also, add in a touch of "In the end, the love you take is the love you make" and you are essentially set. Garnish with family values. If its kids, cool. If its a poodle or friends, that's good. But don't isolate your relationship from others. Bake for 10 years and then switch to a low broil.

I don't know what will happen in the next 10 years. But I know that so far we are doing okay. We have some fights, but not nearly as much as most coupled we know. Mostly, we seem to both be interested in understanding each other. But I don't think we are a typical couple. When we do fight its usually a battle to see who can stay angry the longest. Its kinda funny. Its never that long.

Most men I know have a lot more trouble embracing the other person as more valuable than their ideals. And I know that I am much better at bonding and 'understanding feelings' than most men. I won't comment on what most women want because it would be too controversial. ;P I'll just say that my wife doesn't have the typical female relationship problems. I think we are both very lucky to have found each other.

My wife came from a family with divorced parents. It was very hard for her to trust men. She would give me a lot of mixed signals, but somehow I could see through them. Its a good thing I could, because otherwise I would have assumed she didn't care. It took me over a year of dating her to get her to trust me, and then things got a lot easier. Previous to our relationship, I think my wife had been dating guys who supported her perception of men. It made her feel safe but always made her relationships casual and less than ideal. She felt safe at that distance.

I think having a divorce background can put up barriers between a person and happiness. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't trust your instincts.

I don't think marriage for my wife and I was so much a legal contract as much as it was a statement we wanted to make together. We even changed our last names to merge into one family. Its the way we look at it. Neither of us comes from a traditional religious perspective, either. Its a personal spiritual thing for us. The legal elements, I believe, will mostly help our children if something unfortunate happens. But I don't give the state much weight.

My wife and I are not religious in a traditional sense. I am deeply spiritual, but my wife is essentially a strict materialist atheist. I don't think either of us think of the future as eternal, so we don't perceive our marriage that way. It WILL end. . Oddly enough, in my own spirituality, I tend to feel that my wife and I are connected eternally at a level that does not involve time or space. But that means something to me, not my wife. She thinks its silly and cute. I'm okay with the temporal nature of life. I don't pretend to understand death.

This is just our situation. I think relationships can be very different from one another.

I have total respect for people who don't see marriage as having any value. All I can say is that my wife and I are light elements, and we have less rest mass together than apart. I'm sure our marriage could be torn apart, but you'd have to hit us with some pretty fast neutrons.

 

[yepunsarang]

I can totally understand why a lot of people are very concerned about this---it might sound impossible and such. There are many ways in which marriages cannot work out...that's why many of them are at least a little iffy. But I still believe that if you are someone with good insight, wise, well restrained, and LUCKY, there are possibilities of having some magical marriages.

I think especially for us INFJs it's a paradox---it will take time to find someone who we feel is worth it (so the chances may be lower) but when we find that someone, there is a larger chance that we'll stay together with them. I'm gonna stay optimistic.

 

[beetpoet]

i wanted to add to this interesting post. i appreciated reading through everyone's responses and can relate to the optimistic, pessimistic and realistic views of marriage.

i really wanted to marry and was glad that i did. when i met my husband it just felt like such a natural path. we were young and maybe that was easier. because we didn't have ourselves so fully developed yet it was like there wasn't so much individuality to miss or defend. i'm not saying that's healthy or right but it did work. and we became each other's safe family to grow up in. i'm also glad that my daughters had both of us there, day to day, while they were growing up.

one thing i really value in that relationship is that we said early on that we would always respect each other enough to never deceive each other. that we would be truthful even if things changed. and i think that was the "til death do us part" promise that we have both held to even through divorce. and it's made us friends and kin, really, who will always care about each other.

we both intended for it to be a lifelong marriage but that's the thing about two young people growing up and discovering themselves. they may discover how different their paths need to be. i don't think that always happens but i don't think it's a tragedy if it does. though of course it feels like a failure at the time.

i have one brother who's going on his 30th year of being with his wife and i think they'll be together always. they love and respect each other and i think their individual paths just WORK together. and to me now that just feels like wonderful luck. not that they are better or worse than anyone else. just lucky.

growing up i experienced long term marriages which were poisonous, staying together because of beliefs or family pressure. i don't think that's good or healthy.

having had an open marriage for part of our relationship and knowing other polyamorous people i think it's similar to any other relationship. it's not inherently better or worse but depends on the maturity and communication and trust of the people in it. that said i have another family member who has a long term triad relationship and it has been happy, so far, for all of them. they live as a family and support each other's goals and negotiate as they need to. it's a little harder than being a couple because society doesn't understand or support those types of relationships necessarily.

i often wonder if i'll ever marry again. i know i want a long term partnership again if the right person comes along. because i think growing with someone with deep intimacy is a very precious thing. and just that relaxed feeling of a good companion, that makes even the small events of the day special. i don't know if i'd want to marry, frankly, because i like having a predictable financial situation. it took me a long time to untangle some difficult money things from my prior marriage and i'd worry about mixing finances again with someone else. cynical but true.. if you're not married then you can decide how much or how little you want to throw your financial lot in together.