Parasitic Relationships

[Radiantshadow]

How does one healthily terminate a mutually parasitic relationship? I ask because I've a friend who always runs to me for emotional support and dusting-off yet does nothing to help herself - even admitting to not doing so and resolving to do something about it (to no effect). It is immensely draining to continue dragging her out of an emotional darkness, yet doing it relieves some of the intense loneliness I dwell in and makes me feel appreciated (somehow; I don't really know how well *that* works). Admitting to this selfishness makes me cringe in self-loathing but I'm trying, as evinced by this thread's creation, to find ways to either vitalize the relationship or end it in a healthy manner.

I have considered bringing the imbalance into conversation, but I feel like that would only make things worse and reduce the chances of true harmony. So, forum, I beg for aid in this matter - I cannot seem to find any light to shed on it by myself.

Thank you in advance for reading and, should I prove lucky, advice rendered. My schedule is usually bustling and I would feel terrible if I didn't thank anyone who helped me.

 

[Sloe Djinn]

I have considered bringing the imbalance into conversation, but I feel like that would only make things worse

You mean worse because you might end up lonelier or worse because you might be misinterpreted? As far as terminating the relationship, stating how you feel could be a step in the right direction.

 

[acd]

By not allowing them to feed off of you.
You should bring it up in conversation. There's a chance it could cause an argument, but it's all in how you communicate. You need to be in control of your communication, you wouldn't be bringing the issue up to attack her--you're doing it because you care about your friendship. Just make that clear.

Constantly being there for someone who refuses to help themselves is exhausting and really unfair to you.
If you feel strange about your dynamic, you have reason to, because it's dysfunctional.
It does feel nice to have someone lean on you for wisdom and support, but after all--we can only solve our own problems, no matter how much sympathy and support and advice we give others.
I hope your friend is able to take care of business on her own and that you are able to remain friends.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

In whatever metaphor you wish to stretch: plant or animal parasites/symbiotes - the relationship usually ends one way:

The plant's sweet sap dries up; or the animal's blood dries up.




ie. Turn off the tap of sweetness and life and watch the parasites drop off.

 

[Lerxst]

Asking us INFJ's how not to do this is like asking milk how not to be white...

 

[Stu]

Asking us INFJ's how not to do this is like asking milk how not to be white...

I fully disagree with this statement.

It is simply a question of taking charge of what you are projecting from your self onto the other and the relationship. To do that you have to figure out what emotional affects you are getting from both. There will be more than one and some of them you perceive positively (even if that means you are twisted).

Once you have a grip on that you make a conscious decision whether or not you care to continue participating.

 

[not sure]

How does one healthily terminate a mutually parasitic relationship?

I'm a believer in the direct approach. Speak the truth. Something like this maybe. "I'm happy to be your friend and provide you with a listening ear if you take specific actions to improve your situation. However, if you continue to whine and not commit to improvement then I will have to distance myself from you because this current situation is difficult on my own emotional health." Maybe an infj can pretty it up so it's not too harsh. Then again some people respond well to a shock.

 

[Kgal]

[MENTION=564]acd[/MENTION] and @Flavus Aquinas essentially say what I was thinking.

By not allowing them to feed off of you.

And yes [MENTION=2890]Lerxst[/MENTION] -it's almost impossible for us to not fill that role in the lives of people we care about.

I too get a great deal of satisfaction when I can provide empowerment to someone. The key is empowerment. Which means to lift one's spirits and offer knowledge to someone so they can take the steps necessary to improve their life.

Over the years I have found that when I gradually withhold advice or knowledge to those energy draining persons, the dynamics of our relationship would achieve more balance for me.
Offering empathy and validation is essential to the well being of individuals. Perhaps you could do that for them - only. Then stop there. You wouldn't be concerned about whether they solved their problem or not. You just recognize that they are human and have suffering like everyone - including you. When a person does that for another - without any expectations - then it actually becomes healing - for both. And I would like to see you get something for yourself that is healing for you.

I'm speculating here, but once you begin changing the way you interact with them in the new way, they may notice and inquire as to why you've changed. That would be an opportunity for you tell them how uncomfortable you feel after helping them solve their problems only to have it resurface again and again. You can tell them it makes you sad. A dialog could ensue. Your friendship may be vitalized.
If they do not even notice the change, then you can proceed with the knowledge you are taking care of yourself and the relationship will most likely end. They will need to find someone else to replace you.
Either way - you win.

Good luck.

 

[the]

Tell them to take a hike. Dont make it so complicated.

 

[korena18]

@[URL="http://forums.infjs.com/member.php?u=564"]acd[/URL] and @Flavus Aquinas essentially say what I was thinking.

By not allowing them to feed off of you.

And yes @[URL="http://forums.infjs.com/member.php?u=2890"]Lerxst[/URL] -it's almost impossible for us to not fill that role in the lives of people we care about.

I too get a great deal of satisfaction when I can provide empowerment to someone. The key is empowerment. Which means to lift one's spirits and offer knowledge to someone so they can take the steps necessary to improve their life.

Over the years I have found that when I gradually withhold advice or knowledge to those energy draining persons, the dynamics of our relationship would achieve more balance for me.
Offering empathy and validation is essential to the well being of individuals. Perhaps you could do that for them - only. Then stop there. You wouldn't be concerned about whether they solved their problem or not. You just recognize that they are human and have suffering like everyone - including you. When a person does that for another - without any expectations - then it actually becomes healing - for both. And I would like to see you get something for yourself that is healing for you.

I'm speculating here, but once you begin changing the way you interact with them in the new way, they may notice and inquire as to why you've changed. That would be an opportunity for you tell them how uncomfortable you feel after helping them solve their problems only to have it resurface again and again. You can tell them it makes you sad. A dialog could ensue. Your friendship may be vitalized.
If they do not even notice the change, then you can proceed with the knowledge you are taking care of yourself and the relationship will most likely end. They will need to find someone else to replace you.
Either way - you win.

Good luck.

This is an excellent piece of advice. One of the ways that I cope with individuals similar to your friend is by making myself step back from the situation to view it objectively. Of course, this can be easier said than done as an INFJ. However, if you keep in mind that this is your friend's life path and these are the lessons she may be required to learn in this lifetime, then it may help you to be there as her companion on her path instead of helping her 'solve' the problems that only she can truly do on her own as part of the lesson learning process.

 

[Nixie]

I also think the broader issue at hand is allowing yourself to develop the tools and skills that allow you to offer empathy and a listening ear without becoming overly emotionally involved with the other person. Everyone has good advice on how to deal with your friend but you are part of the issue too. Being there for someone doesn't mean that you accept responsibility for their happiness. If you have done the best you can to empathize and try and offer solutions to someone, you have to be able to recognize where your involvement ends and their responsibility begins.

I would suggest you speak openly with your friend or if that is too hard, limit contact. If they run to you when they are in trouble and you are not in a place to help, there isn't any law on the books that says you have to help them. I understand it is against your nature but your emotional well being is just as valuable. Part of the process of creating a healthy relationship is finding and honoring boundaries.

 

[AhSver]

I think a parasitic relationship is the kind when over time one of the sides will increasingly become sick and suffer and the other one will gain. A good parasite never completely gets rid of its host and tries to keep it alive as long as possible but the time always comes when the host needs to move on.
However, there are symbiotic relationships. What you described from your life seems to be on the borderline. Yes, she does use your energy to sustain herself and yet she provides you an output, something to care for. People with care-taker personalities are like that and can be easily taken advantage of as it happened with me in the past multiple times. It all comes to the point when the care-taker exhausts all of its care and the caring itself doesn't replenish the energy no more. That's when relationships brake. But they can last at this point for a very long time but that doesn't mean that it's healthy.
I could try to give you an advice if I could hear more about you and her but then again it is something so personal that it's only up to you to decide what to do.

 

[Lerxst]

I fully disagree with this statement.

It is simply a question of taking charge of what you are projecting from your self onto the other and the relationship. To do that you have to figure out what emotional affects you are getting from both. There will be more than one and some of them you perceive positively (even if that means you are twisted).

Once you have a grip on that you make a conscious decision whether or not you care to continue participating.

I don't mean in general, but when dealing with a close friend or relative. I'm usually a difficult person to approach for anyone who's a stranger to me. There might be about a dozen people who would call me a friend, but only 1 of them I would consider a friend. Those other 11 people I can write-off in a matter of seconds if they start to get too "parasitic". Hell, my college roommate was supposed to be my best man at my wedding but when he started lamenting over his own love life to me every time he saw me, I just walked away.

That one person I consider a friend though, will probably end up leeching off of me for years before I get to a breaking point.

 

[gps]

How does one healthily terminate a mutually parasitic relationship?

Step 1: Re-think and/or reframe how you just characterized the `relationSHIP'.
Step 2: Denominalize the `thing'/relationship BACK into a Process.
Step 3: Use `The Process' of (inter)relating to metamorphose the relationship-cum-process.

Unilaterally, I advise you convert constancy into something varying over time.
To wit, I doubt the relating is full-time parasitic.
You both are getting SOMETHING out of interacting SOMETIMES.
You can promote self-awareness by finding out what YOU have gotten out of interacting.
Hugs, attention, sex?
You don't need to tell us; just find out and admit it to yourself.
In doing so the relationSHIP turns from parasitic to symbiotic, and though you may FEEL like you lose far more than you get, you will accept that you have gotten/won something of value ... but perhaps not enough to make ongoing interaction worth the hassle.

I ask because I've a friend who always runs to me for emotional support and dusting-off yet does nothing to help herself - even admitting to not doing so and resolving to do something about it (to no effect).

If this `friend' runs to you -- for whatever reason -- then I infer that your interactions have rewarded her for doing so.
A fundamental underpinning of abnormal psychology is `Any attention is GOOD attention.'
If this `friend' gets attention from you then YOU have been rewarding -- however unwittingly -- her for whatever behavior she been manifesting.

It is immensely draining to continue dragging her out of an emotional darkness, yet doing it relieves some of the intense loneliness I dwell in and makes me feel appreciated (somehow; I don't really know how well *that* works).

If self-defeatism has WORKED, why would she want or need to change it?
The secondary gains may be enough to compensate her for the primary losses.
So long as you are willing and able to play White Knight then she has little reason to stop playing distressed damsel.

Admitting to this selfishness makes me cringe in self-loathing but I'm trying, as evinced by this thread's creation, to find ways to either vitalize the relationship or end it in a healthy manner.

If she doesn't get attention from you ... then she will more than likely use the same behavior to get it via a path of less resistance.
There may be insufficient motivation to change her behavior until her act/behavior fails with you and others.

I have considered bringing the imbalance into conversation, but I feel like that would only make things worse and reduce the chances of true harmony.

`True' harmony?
Do you really want to resonate with self-defeatism?
Do you believe she may learn how to resonate with whatever pattern you set?
Do you believe that you two may co-create some emergent harmony?
I'm curious how this hoped-for harmony may manifest.

So, forum, I beg for aid in this matter - I cannot seem to find any light to shed on it by myself.

Reward the behavior you want to promote.
Try to ignore the behavior you wish to demote.
By way of a hot date, accompany her to your local Dept of mental health.
If you see a counselor/therapist together some better options might arise.

Thank you in advance for reading and, should I prove lucky, advice rendered.
My schedule is usually bustling and I would feel terrible if I didn't thank anyone who helped me.

Best of luck.
I've been in similar circumstances myself.
I can certainly empathize.

 

[Faye]

Why do you think this is unhealthy? Would it be more healthy if, instead of talking, the two of you spent the time you spend together alone instead?

 

[Radiantshadow]

Thank you, everyone, for the replies and my apologies for the lengthy delay in response on my behalf - events have limited movement. It is 3am for me right now and I have school later in the morning; more in-depth responses will be given this afternoon. Good health and fair fortune to all

 

[Radiantshadow]

I have brought the issue up and - after the initial shock - it was self-decided that she would learn to swim or sink. In context, I know she will be fine once her feet are found; I should not have prolonged the affair as I did but it's done now (still friends, but not symbiotic*).

As I do not know how to address specific quotes, I will address specific posters -

Black Sheep:

Both. At first, I felt bringing it up would cause her to become more emotionally unstable instead of inducing a reality-check, resulting in me having to cut off communication entirely. Thankfully this didn't have to happen and each of us learnt something.

acd:

Your last three lines struck home with me and helped me zoom out a bit; ultimately we are responsible for ourselves and cannot, should not, rely on others to dig us out of the holes we throw ourselves into. In order to grow into something beautiful, we must be willing to get dirty. I predict that she and I will be fine - strained for a time - but better for it.

Flavus Aquila:

Aye, this is a lesson I am trying to learn. Looking back, I am amused at myself for thinking I could change others for the better; people will change for themselves and precious few others.

Lerxst:

I would not ascribe this to all INFJs, really. I imagine with age comes the wisdom to know what can and cannot be changed, and I am (terribly) young. The personality type system is useful for discerning general traits but beyond that, it's not very useful in my humble opinion. Hope I didn't take your post out of context ~.-

Kiu:

This is what I did, more or less, and it worked! It seems dancing around the shrubbery isn't always the best idea when picking berries.

K-gal:

I will contemplate your advice on healing and empowerment, I haven't thought of it like that before. I have been slowly withdrawing myself from her and she has noticed, and some awkwardness has ensued - perhaps something will come of it. Regardless of where it goes, I believe she will be fine and I just need to make more (quality) friends.

Corndogman:

I would tell her to take a hike if there wasn't another option; otherwise, I'd prefer to settle the matter differently.

Korena18:

Yes, very much Having to step back and take a breath was essential. I must frequently remind myself (I am 17 years old and slightly dramatic) that the world does not start and stop on a dime-toss, that the latest emotional crisis (mine or others') will likely not seem nearly so important 30 minutes from now, nor will many others care. To quote Slaughterhouse Five by Kurt Vonnegut, "And so it goes."

NDN NT:

You phrase it much better than I could have - this was the hardest thing to come to terms with during this ordeal. Learning to curb the...zeal to create a perfect world for someone else is going to be a rough ride, I think. Rough but necessary. It's taken multiples tries but I finally got it (I hope): clear boundaries are extremely important in any kind of relationship, or all kinds of swamp will encroach on your house.

AhSver:

Ah, my apologies for the mix-up. She is/was an output, but not for caring necessarily. I just wanted someone to hang out with to assuage loneliness; unfortunately, it took a wrong turn when I did start caring and she was the only outlet.

gps:

Quite right. Had I known what I symbiotic relationship was, I'd have labelled it such. We both get something for something else, leaving both parties to blame for any issues that spring forth - I have accepted this some time ago, just did not know how to deal with it, I suppose (?). By accepting blame for unintentionally praising her self-defeatist behavior, I also resolved to untangle myself from her to promote self-sufficient behavior (if not with my loss, then through that of a multitude of others). As for harmony: I had hoped to banish her fears for her so she may find peace in herself, but I can see now that it isn't possible - only she can do that. Any "harmony" resulting from that path would've ended in something very nasty. I will do my best to do this --> "Reward the behavior you want to promote. Try to ignore the behavior you wish to demote", thank you (the other two aren't an option, unfortunately).

Dragon:

I believe it is unhealthy because she is emotionally exhaustive to me and I allow her negative behavior to flourish unchecked. A certain distance will be maintained from this point forward, yes.


To everyone:

My sincere thanks, I am deeply grateful that anyone would take time from their schedule to help a faceless unknown over teh mighty Interwebz. I hope that I am able to repay the favor during my stay on the forum (I rather like it here)

*Thank you for the new terminology; I am a high-school student and delighted to find something that describes this.