Poll: Gay marriage

[Rferraris]

Please don't think I was giving sympathy. I was pointing out people are wanting to change something to meet their needs. Want to be different? Why feel below the other guy? Be different. Realize it IS different. Maybe it needs a different name.

I personally feel it impossible for two of the same sex to get married. I don't let my feelings belittle myself. I don't hold myself better than anyone here. Those are my feelings. Those are my thoughts. They may be "engendered" in me from many things other than the imprinting of my parents and my being raised.

Ever think someone would take it as an assault on their beliefs? Morals and ethics? That doesn't seem to bother people that might bother me. It is a touchy situation, and my feelings are important to me.....just like everyone else's.

Know a guy raised by two women. He talks like women. He acts like women. Did someone miss this? Yes, he likes guys. Maybe that was someone's intentions the whole time.....for him to be like them.

I wish this was not an issue, but it is. There will always be children made fun of because of it. Love you guys, but I care very little for most surveys. Just call it something else. Maybe you should change some more of the dictionary.

All I hear is me, me, me.
If you want to stay a kid, then I guess it's all me, me, me.
But at some point you have to grow up and realize its not about you, you, you.
The rest of the world happened and all these other people showed up that you, you, you didn't notice while thinking about how this violates me, me, me.

 

[Saru Inc]

All I hear is me, me, me.
If you want to stay a kid, then I guess it's all me, me, me.
But at some point you have to grow up and realize its not about you, you, you.
The rest of the world happened and all these other people showed up that you, you, you didn't notice while thinking about how this violates me, me, me.

So then we should just do what other people tell us? Sorry, I didn't vote for Obama, and with that same token, I'm not going to go forward off a cliff. Its not about him him him, listen to him, he's telling you how he feels about this situation. First off, when he's telling you how he feels its going to be about him. But you told us how you feel, how is that any different?

Why do I have to tell people how to behave.


I'm the stinking person who's supposed to troll anyways.

 

[the]

I backed out once I saw the argument
was nothing but spewing hate by an old minded bigoted lonely sole with no life or friends worth having. Just felt sorry for the freak. Then again I don't.

I get it: you saw there was trouble so you backed out, only to come in later to make sure you got some name calling in. How wise you are!

 

[894tt3h9]

I only come back to this thread to see if anyone's said they hated each other yet. Fuck bitches, right? Fuck'em. Just have it out. I promise it'll feel good. And then when all of our teary eyes dry and our sobbing stops we'll go back into the real world and realize nothing has changed.

 

[benny]

I used to believe simarly, that we deserve all the rights of straight people. But then I thought about something... We do have all the rights of straight people. There is only one arena in which we don't "have the rights," which is marriage. Which, as Flavus pointed out, was made in order to procreate. I know many people who think everyone who marries should at least try and have kids. Now, I don't prescribe to that same philosophy, I believe if you don't think you'd be a good parent, its ok not to have kids.

However, gay people. Hello? Why not get our own thing? While yes marriage is the standard way of doing things, it in itself is just a term. There's nothing special about the term in the sense that why can't our civil unions be just as good as marriage? If I'm marrying my husband, I'm obviously not going to be able to impregnate him... So pershaps we don't fit under the term marriage, does that make our love any less valued? Absolutely not. Its just different.

Because no matter how much gays and lez want to say we're all the same, which keep in mind I usually agree with, in this case we're different. We cannot have kids on our own. So maybe we shouldn't be given the term marriage, but in a 100 years, why can't civil unions have just as much importance? I use to feel sorry for all the gay kids who killed themselves all over the years. Not that I feel any less bad anymore, but a gay kid dying because some kid called him a faggot, and a black kid dying because some kid called him a nigger are all the same to me: a tragedy. We can have equal rights, and not have equal names. We're not kids people, I say this over and over, and now I believe it less and less each time. We're not kids. Who cares if they have that name, we can have our own.

Marriage is not the only right we are denied. In many states hospital visitation by same-sex partners is not allowed. In some states there is a ban on joint adoption by same-sex partners. In many states people can be fired from their jobs for being gay, since the law does not protect against discrimination based on sexual orientation. Similarly, many states do not have anti-discrimination housing laws. And many states do not include sexual orientation or gender identity in their hate crime laws.

But regardless of whether we have the same rights as straight people, we certainly are not shown the same levels of respect and human decency from society as a whole. And I completely disagree with the idea that the purpose of marriage is procreation. People marry for all sorts of reasons. Gay marriage should not be called marriage because we cannot have children of our own? That makes no sense to me, and no offense, but I think that's a rather self-defeating perspective you've adopted.

 

[Rferraris]

I get it: you saw there was trouble so you backed out, only to come in later to make sure you got some name calling in. How wise you are!

Yeah guess so.
But nothing about the validation idea I had. I came back and was disappointed the conversation hasn't made sense or came to a place where progress was made. The only feedback I'm getting is for calling a spdre a spade. Guess so.
I take it back. All the haters are nice people and I wouldn't want them sacrificed.

BUT I STILL THINK THIS SUCKS BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T KNOW HOW TO VALIDATE THE OTHERSIDE OF THE CONVERSATION.

It's just people rationalizing and coming up with what they think are creative reasons for being the warped souls they are. Oh yeah. Just my opinion.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

Yeah guess so.
But nothing about the validation idea I had. I came back and was disappointed the conversation hasn't made sense or came to a place where progress was made. The only feedback I'm getting is for calling a spdre a spade. Guess so.
I take it back. All the haters are nice people and I wouldn't want them sacrificed.

BUT I STILL THINK THIS SUCKS BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T KNOW HOW TO VALIDATE THE OTHERSIDE OF THE CONVERSATION.

It's just people rationalizing and coming up with what they think are creative reasons for being the warped souls they are. Oh yeah. Just my opinion.

Does calling people lonely, freaks, warped souls, haters, etc. make you feel better?

 

[Matt3737]

Yeah guess so.
But nothing about the validation idea I had. I came back and was disappointed the conversation hasn't made sense or came to a place where progress was made. The only feedback I'm getting is for calling a spdre a spade. Guess so.
I take it back. All the haters are nice people and I wouldn't want them sacrificed.

BUT I STILL THINK THIS SUCKS BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T KNOW HOW TO VALIDATE THE OTHERSIDE OF THE CONVERSATION.

It's just people rationalizing and coming up with what they think are creative reasons for being the warped souls they are. Oh yeah. Just my opinion.

Does everyone who can't speak to others like a polite adult resort to all caps yelling, name-calling, belittling, and self-centered temper tantrums? Where is your adult civility? Is that so much to ask?

All I hear is me, me, me.
If you want to stay a kid, then I guess it's all me, me, me.
But at some point you have to grow up and realize its not about you, you, you.
The rest of the world happened and all these other people showed up that you, you, you didn't notice while thinking about how this violates me, me, me.

 

[Rferraris]

I get it: you saw there was trouble so you backed out, only to come in later to make sure you got some name calling in. How wise you are!

And no. I didn't back out cause there was trouble. I backed out cause no matter what point was made, and if I remember correctly you made a few, they were never answered, addressed. What's the point if I say something and all I get is feedback that doesn't address any of the points I made. Just some rambling on about the meanings of marriage and how thats serves to ignore the plight of many people. It's just hate. And hate is just what it is. You want respect, then call it what it is. Stop being a pussy like being polite makes being a fucking asshole okay.

 

[Matt3737]

And no. I didn't back out cause there was trouble. I backed out cause no matter what point was made, and if I remember correctly you made a few, they were never answered, addressed. What's the point if I say something and all I get is feedback that doesn't address any of the pints I made. Just some rambling on about the meanings of marriage and how thats serves to ignore the plight of many people. It's just hate. And hate is just what it is. You want respect, then call it what it is. Stop being a pussy like being polite makes being a fucking asshole okay.

I'd like to know what makes you think you're so special that you have the right to speak to another person in such a manner? Everything is recorded in this thread, so bring up quotes to justify your behavior. You should be ashamed of yourself. You're behaving in the same fashion that fundamental zealots do in their bigotry, rather than justify it with the use of 'God' you're using 'love' instead. Yeah, I see you're full of love and respect.

 

[Rferraris]

Does calling people lonely, freaks, warped souls, haters, etc. make you feel better?

When I see them as the resin for the hate in the world. When I see them as the ones who destroy the lives of so many. When I see their careless and callus assertions that consider nothing except themselves I want revenge. And in lieu of being able to grab your throat I'll call you names. Yeah, makes me feel better.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

When I see them as the resin for the hate in the world. When I see them as the ones who destroy the lives of so many. When I see their careless and callus assertions that consider nothing except themselves I want revenge. And in lieu of being able to grab your throat I'll call you names. Yeah, makes me feel better.

Then perhaps what you believe will make you feel better is what is destructive to others. Do you think others are reasonably bound to facilitate your coming to feel better under these conditions?

 

[Rferraris]

Does everyone who can't speak to others like a polite adult resort to all caps yelling, name-calling, belittling, and self-centered temper tantrums? Where is your adult civility? Is that so much to ask?

That was boring. Nice try I guess. Once again. THIS DID NOTHING.
It's not a conversation.
Your focus is on trying to make me feel like shit or redirect to something other than what I said. Like taking away anything I might have said to further invalidate me so we never actually have a conversation about the question this thread is supposed to be about.

 

[Saru Inc]

Marriage is not the only right we are denied. In many states hospital visitation by same-sex partners is not allowed. In some states there is a ban on joint adoption by same-sex partners. In many states people can be fired from their jobs for being gay, since the law does not protect against discrimination based on sexual orientation. Similarly, many states do not have anti-discrimination housing laws. And many states do not include sexual orientation or gender identity in their hate crime laws.

But regardless of whether we have the same rights as straight people, we certainly are not shown the same levels of respect and human decency from society as a whole. And I completely disagree with the idea that the purpose of marriage is procreation. People marry for all sorts of reasons. Gay marriage should not be called marriage because we cannot have children of our own? That makes no sense to me, and no offense, but I think that's a rather self-defeating perspective you've adopted.

Sorry I don't have time atm for a full response, so I'll just touch on these topics as quickly as I can.

but just quickly:

First part) I am aware of the discrimination laws, however my ADHD brain skipped a nueron and I forgot about that. Touché. That reminds me though, if we get rid of all discrimination laws isn't that better? AKA you can't fire someone for being a woman/gay/black etc. You can only fire someone if they do a shitty job, would be a much better blanket rule. Although I support the idea of Right to Work states so really I think employers should be able to fire anyone they want. Its their loss if they fire a good worker. (And no, I really don't want to get in a debate about that in itself, maybe later). On the partner laws though, I'm not saying there aren't glitches, flaws, etc that need to be changed. I'm simply saying we're not like... God I don't know the word I'm trying to use and I don't want to use the wrong word. We're not hunted down by the average populace, I guess is what I'm saying. It will come in time. But we have to show good will, if we want good will back.


2nd paragraph) We may not be shown the same rights as straight people in some parts of our lives, sure. What are we going to do about that? We can try and educate the populace, and show them the scientific facts about gay men and women. We can ask them why they feel the way they feel, and we can offer them a different view of us. But that's pretty much it. Now I want to make it clear, I don't want to come across as a "well sorry son this just aint how it works around here nothing ever changes" good ol' boy persona. In fact, I feel a very big pull towards advocating gay rights, as well as speaking out against discrimination against gays. I just... Idk. I get this feeling that there are a lot of gays out there (not speaking to you, or heck anyone in particular in this thread) who want to beat down the heteros, as pay back for us being beaten down. Yes there's some areas of inequality, but its a work in process. People have hated us for a long, long time. And some people simply don't know any better, but if all we do is pounce around like kids saying WE WANT IT NOW! and call them idiots for not agreeing, well, we're only confirming their beliefs about us.

Now, about marriage, we're talking about two different things. I'm referring to the origins of marriage. You're referring to your opinion of what marriage is, which is perfectly fine. But I'm going based on what it "factually" is based on. (As factual as something like marriage can be) I'm sorry it doesn't make sense to you, but that doesn't effect how I feel about it. Flavus said this earlier, and this forum went bonkers on him. The purpose of marriage ORIGINALLY (and I believe still is) was to procreate, especially when people lived 30 years and then conked out. Now this is not to say other people shouldn't want to change it, but I simply believe it should stay that way. People go on about how "marriage existed before religion etc religion doesn't own it" etc. Well, ok no... Read about Marriage, it goes hand in hand with religion. So, thus many religious people cling to that belief. Which is fine. I mean personally, while I wouldn't vote "for" gay marriage, at the same time I'm not going to vote against the idea of a pastor/priest etc. marrying two same sex couple in marriage. Because religiously, thats between them and God.

Please do tell what self-defeating aspects of that argument are. If I agree with you, I will then look for a better argument.

 

[Matt3737]

That was boring. Nice try I guess. Once again. THIS DID NOTHING.
It's not a conversation.
Your focus is on trying to make me feel like shit or redirect to something other than what I said. Like taking away anything I might have said to further invalidate me so we never actually have a conversation about the question this thread is supposed to be about.

I have not once objected or expressed disagreement to gays getting married. I am ashamed of your behavior and complete disregard for manners, civility, and respect. It's not a conversation because you seem incapable of allowing it to be so. So, what now then? Are you going to be able to walk away with your head held high like you accomplished something? What did you hope to accomplish anyways? To show people how bitterly angry and resentful you are? I feel terribly sorry for you, but if you wish to throw away your dignity in such a manner that is at your own discretion. I think this thread should be closed already.

 

[Rferraris]

Then perhaps what you believe will make you feel better is what is destructive to others. Do you think others are under an obligation to make you feel better, regardless of what it does to them?

No, the thread asks a question.
If your point is you feel this will somehow destroy your life, then you need to articulate how so that most people would agree you made a lucid point. My point was this never became a conversation. A conversation is a lucid point acknowledging the other persons point and then either agreeing or countering. Roberts rules. That's what I said I wanted. If that is destructive to you, then it goes no where. Cause just listening to reasons why your filled with inflicting hate on people isn't interesting.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

And no. I didn't back out cause there was trouble. I backed out cause no matter what point was made, and if I remember correctly you made a few, they were never answered, addressed. What's the point if I say something and all I get is feedback that doesn't address any of the points I made. Just some rambling on about the meanings of marriage and how thats serves to ignore the plight of many people. It's just hate. And hate is just what it is. You want respect, then call it what it is. Stop being a pussy like being polite makes being a fucking asshole okay.

Just wanted to quote that.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

No, the thread asks a question.
If your point is you feel this will somehow destroy your life, then you need to articulate how so that most people would agree you made a lucid point. My point was this never became a conversation. A conversation is a lucid point acknowledging the other persons point and then either agreeing or countering. Roberts rules. That's what I said I wanted. If that is destructive to you, then it goes no where. Cause just listening to reasons why your filled with inflicting hate on people isn't interesting.

I think a conversation becomes a monologue when one of the people involved cannot engage the content and begins calling names, making accusations, swearing and acting all anti-social.

 

[Rferraris]

I have not once objected or expressed disagreement to gays getting married. I am ashamed of your behavior and complete disregard for manners, civility, and respect. It's not a conversation because you seem incapable of allowing it to be so. So, what now then? Are you going to be able to walk away with your head held high like you accomplished something? What did you hope to accomplish anyways? To show people how bitterly angry and resentful you are? I feel terribly sorry for you, but if you wish to throw away your dignity in such a manner that is at your own discretion. I think this thread should be closed already.

Nice try again. I just answered your response. If I hold my head high or down in shame, it has nothing to do with where this started. Now you're making abouty dignity. I'm not sure where I offended you. I never mentioned anyone's name. I wasn't rude. Being direct isn't rude. I wasn't disrespectful.
I just pointed out people couldn't answer why they were so set on denying other peoples freedoms, and a month later I still don't read anything that remotely sounds like anything except rationalizations to make themselves feel okay about prejudice and hatred.

Should women be called men's property. Should blacks sit at the back of a bus. Should they ever vote. Have we made any progress. Now we have to fight tooth and nail for another cause.

 

[Rferraris]

I'd like to know what makes you think you're so special that you have the right to speak to another person in such a manner? Everything is recorded in this thread, so bring up quotes to justify your behavior. You should be ashamed of yourself. You're behaving in the same fashion that fundamental zealots do in their bigotry, rather than justify it with the use of 'God' you're using 'love' instead. Yeah, I see you're full of love and respect.

I'm not full of love. I'm not special. I didn't think I was offending you. I apologize for my choice of words. No mattered how heart felt they were.