Prediction for Israel and the Middle East

[GracieRuth]

Well, today the PA embassador to the UN said that a new palestinian state would be "Jew Free." Can you imagine if Israel deported all the arabs? Where is the shock and righteous indigation of the world for this blatant sort of antisemitism? It's 1939

 

[just me]

Well, today the PA embassador to the UN said that a new palestinian state would be "Jew Free." Can you imagine if Israel deported all the arabs? Where is the shock and righteous indigation of the world for this blatant sort of antisemitism? It's 1939

I call it inbred hatred from lack of understanding.

Billy, you have a PM.

 

[Norton]

Isolationism and the America First Committee went down the toilet in December, 1941. So much for saying we should have no interest in what goes on in the rest of the world, particularly in these days of globalization when seemingly disparate parts of the world are bound tightly and inexorably together in ways never before imagined.

For example, one could say "we don't need sophistication" and it's "not our business" what happens if Greece, a country of only about 11 million, goes bankrupt and further destabilizes the European Union. Well, just wait and see how that damages your IRA or pension fund, not to mention the US stock market and the US economy.

Like it or not, the world is connected in more non-obvious ways than ever. Dealing with the resulting complexity and inevitable chaos requires sophistication, intelligence, and knowledge. A nation needs to act in its own self interest and that involves being actively engaged in the world in ways that belie the simplistic view that "it's not our problem."

 

[Billy]

Isolationism and the America First Committee went down the toilet in December, 1941. So much for saying we should have no interest in what goes on in the rest of the world, particularly in these days of globalization when seemingly disparate parts of the world are bound tightly and inexorably together in ways never before imagined.

For example, one could say "we don't need sophistication" and it's "not our business" what happens if Greece, a country of only about 11 million, goes bankrupt and further destabilizes the European Union. Well, just wait and see how that damages your IRA or pension fund, not to mention the US stock market and the US economy.

Like it or not, the world is connected in more non-obvious ways than ever. Dealing with the resulting complexity and inevitable chaos requires sophistication, intelligence, and knowledge. A nation needs to act in its own self interest and that involves being actively engaged in the world in ways that belie the simplistic view that "it's not our problem."

Yeah right, because economic = militarism? Please.

 

[Norton]

[MENTION=1451]Billy[/MENTION], you have a talent for sarcasm. Now, show me your talent for analysis. What's wrong about what I wrote?

 

[Billy]

For one thing it doesn't make sense. Greece is not Israel.

 

[Stu]

The only thing that Israel can do is to continue to pretend that the rest of the world does not exist, except of course the greater New York area and Washington DC

 

[Norton]

My point is that one can't assume that any particular problem or conflict in the world is of no concern to our national interests. I used Greece as an example. It's a small country of about 11 million people that ostensibly should not have an effect on the US, yet it does and it will. Likewise, the conflict between the Israelis and the Palestinians has already demonstrated many times that it is capable of riling world markets and disrupting international relations in ways that are much greater than the conflict itself. Like it or not, the world is still dependent on oil from the Middle East and will remain so for a long time. It may be facile to welcome disruptions in the oil supply and I'm a firm believer that new energy technologies are inevitable. But, having lived through the oil shortages of 1974, I can tell you that even the most radical environmentalist will be severely affected by a sudden shortage of oil. So, in view of just these two examples, we must remain engaged in world affairs because the world's problems are our problems.

I would also point out that being engaged in the world doesn't equate with starting wars. It means smart international relations including diplomacy and trade. I think the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, particularly as fought, were big, costly mistakes for which there have never been well defined goals and an end-game scenario.

 

[bamf]

Randomly chiming in: It's funny that we call the period prior to WWII "isolationism" for the US when we were anything but.

 

[bickelz]

Well, today the PA embassador to the UN said that a new palestinian state would be "Jew Free." Can you imagine if Israel deported all the arabs? Where is the shock and righteous indigation of the world for this blatant sort of antisemitism? It's 1939

There are like 3 Jewish people in Palestine because every Jewish person that enters pretty much gets shot.

 

[Norton]

Randomly chiming in: It's funny that we call the period prior to WWII "isolationism" for the US when we were anything but.

I don't believe that the period before WWII was particularly known for isolationism. There was, however, a strong political movement known as the America First Committee, which opposed the US entry into WWII as well as foreign aid to combatants (i.e., "lend-lease," etc.). It quickly disappeared after Dec. 7, 1941.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

Were the Palestinians ever paid compensation/reparations for the loss of their land?

Perhaps Israel should pay current land prices for the territories it took over. While the Palestinians might not get what they want, at least there would be some semblance of justice thrown into the equation, and possibly help them get their infrastructure up and running in a way not yet possible.

 

[Psalm]

Having Israeli friends and having studied this situation for a while, my hopes for this matter are that a resolution is reached peacefully that both quells the animosity between the two people and gives them each a place to call home. My Israeli friends honestly just want peace. They don't really care about borders; all they want is to stop being terrorized, have peace, and keep their homes. Remember: although the Israelis did take land from the Palestinians, the Israelis did inhabit that land years before the Palestinians did and were forced out of it by a war-mongering, enslaving empire. Those with Hebrew heritage founded Israel not out of hate, but out of an honest desperate desire to call their own place home. Please do not compare this act to we Americans wrongfully usurping Indian territory, as we had other places to go. The Israelis, however, had no other place to call their own home.

Bottom line, I'd like to see Palestinians and Israelis getting along together with minimal animosity. So would my good friend in Israel.

 

[Norton]

Having Israeli friends and having studied this situation for a while, my hopes for this matter are that a resolution is reached peacefully that both quells the animosity between the two people and gives them each a place to call home. My Israeli friends honestly just want peace. They don't really care about borders; all they want is to stop being terrorized, have peace, and keep their homes. Remember: although the Israelis did take land from the Palestinians, the Israelis did inhabit that land years before the Palestinians did and were forced out of it by a war-mongering, enslaving empire. Those with Hebrew heritage founded Israel not out of hate, but out of an honest desperate desire to call their own place home. Please do not compare this act to we Americans wrongfully usurping Indian territory, as we had other places to go. The Israelis, however, had no other place to call their own home.

Bottom line, I'd like to see Palestinians and Israelis getting along together with minimal animosity. So would my good friend in Israel.

Inherent in what you wrote is that the Israeli-Palestinian problem is extremely complicated and both sides have legitimate complaints. Too often, one side or the other has been used as a proxy by external interests without a real stake in the conflict. External states can either exacerbate the problem or solve it. Unfortunately, to date, there has been too little interest in solving it.

 

[Psalm]

Inherent in what you wrote is that the Israeli-Palestinian problem is extremely complicated and both sides have legitimate complaints. Too often, one side or the other has been used as a proxy by external interests without a real stake in the conflict. External states can either exacerbate the problem or solve it. Unfortunately, to date, there has been too little interest in solving it.

You're very right. However, neither side has seemed particularly appreciate of the help it has received, as the forms I have seen it come in have been unfavorable toward a common goal between them. I believe, for example, our President exacerbated the issue by making a statement - also, his motive for doing so is unknown. I think that an internationally moderated discussion between both sides would prove the best course of action, as it would give each side the attention that they desire. Perhaps a real-time UN conference that gave the two countries a sort of diplomatic spot light would help.

 

[GracieRuth]

For negotiations to work, both sides must be motivated to achieve a settlement via negotiations. When one side simply desires the irradication of the other, negotiations are fruitless.

 

[bickelz]

For negotiations to work, both sides must be motivated to achieve a settlement via negotiations. When one side simply desires the irradication of the other, negotiations are fruitless.

I don't think it's a "simple desire" at this point. There are reasons for the actions of both sides. Some find certain actions more justifiable and take sides.

 

[13datura31]

Sorry we stole your lands, here is a little bit of it back, just not all of it... lets ask the Native Americans how thats working out for them.

hey now, us natives can get into college easier, and uh, mild help with housing, so, it kinda works out. but not really, but kind of, that and lets be honest, if america has its way, they'll lose their culture in a few decades, become dependant on capitalism and then we'll all be on our way to the new tyranny that'll have to be overthrown, again. which might bring peace, but not really, what i'm saying is the quicker they bow to the u.s., the quicker there will be "peace."

 

[GracieRuth]

Were the Palestinians ever paid compensation/reparations for the loss of their land? .

Actually, yes. Most of Israel was purchased by Jews from the absentee Arab landlords long before 1948. Sir Moses Montefiore made the first known land purchase by a Jew outside the Land in 1855. Yehoshua Hankin was responsible for most of the major land purchases. We had several Jewish charities devoted to the purchase of land in the late 1800's and early 1900's: the Palestine Jewish Colonization Association (PJCA), Palestine Land Development Company and the Jewish National Fund.

 

[just me]

For negotiations to work, both sides must be motivated to achieve a settlement via negotiations. When one side simply desires the irradication of the other, negotiations are fruitless.

That just about sums up the real problem over there. One wants recognition while not recognizing the other. The world over has been like this towards them for over 2000 years in some form or another. When will it stop? When will the world realize what they have been doing and are doing, either by complicity or turning their backs and looking the other way? There should be 200 million Jewish people in the world today. When will it stop(rhetorical question, of course)?

copied..."And before him shall be gathered all nations" copied
copied..."because you have done it unto one of these, the least of My brethren; you have done it unto Me." copied