privilege

[gd65h8as7]

The woman in the video shouldn't be upset, and I don't like the term "white privilege."

I'm good friends with someone who used to be an operative for the CIA. He was recruited out of one of the best college in the US while he was getting his PhD. It was pretty controversial initially, but when it came to studying other countries (he did political science), you had to keep in mind a country's "national character." As in, the Chinese national character is different from the German national character which is different from the....and so forth. People may not like to admit it, but there are differences between racial groups.

ON AVERAGE....

Africans are more physically gifted than other races.
Asians and Jews are more intelligent than other races.
The nordic races (people from Finland, Germany, Norway etc.) run their countries much more efficiently than other races.

Is this to say that one race is better than the other?

NO.

Remember I said ON AVERAGE. So there will be people who will run counter to the mean i.e a highly intelligent black guy, or an asian in unbelievably good shape etc.

It's the truth.

Think about it, where do you think all of the stereotypes come from....

"angry black man/woman"
"smart asian"

The woman in the video shouldn't be upset. It's possible that the cashier had more problems with bounced checks with Africans than with other races. This isn't to say that the cashier shouldn't treat everyone respectfully, but her response might've been an instinctive one based on past experience.

(and i'm saying this as someone with Caribbean roots, my parents are from Haiti)

 

[ZcM4xzkjgzCjytBc]

White people may have privileges among other white people, but seem to have disadvantages in settings where other races are grouped.
In terms of the video, imagine the white check-out-chick and relative, but located in an African, or Muslim country. They would be disadvantaged.

Considering how many whites are in African/Muslim countries vs non-whites in countries primarily white, you make an unrealistic point.

 

[ZcM4xzkjgzCjytBc]

That's not what I said at all

Obviously. The fact that you didn't understand how what I said is like what you said, is kind of weird.

stop being so defensive.

Is that another way of saying "stop arguing"? Seriously?

Firstly when I said we're privileged to be alive I meant that we were lucky to be born, to be the one of millions of sperm that penetrated the uterus.

I'm pretty sure that's exactly how I interpreted it. Though realize this is completely irrelevant. I'm lucky to have two functioning kidneys, and how is this relevant to the topic?

Being white is as random a privilege as any other.

It's not random because it's the discussion topic.

I'm fortunate in numerous aspects of my life . Perhaps we differ in opinion, but I see being white as far less important than my mental and physical health or the love of my family.

Irrelevant

And if I admit my race is a privilege, then what? Should I also admit being male and straight(ish) are privileges? Should I mire myself in guilt and sorrow and mourn how disadvantaged everyone else is?

Do what you want, stop being so defensive.

 

[this is only temporary]

The cashier should have been friendly to all customers and asked all customers for the same ID depending on whatever the store's policy was. If she couldn't do that, she was a bad cashier with no knowledge of customer service, and possibly racist.

And white privilege, while it might exist in some cases, depends entirely on context and who's around you, there are plenty of people who will treat you worse because you are white.

And I agree with Jacobi's post about there being many forms of privilege, and race is not necessarily the most important one. Well... unless you are black and dealing with a racist white cashier. Then it is probably fairly relevant.

 

[ZcM4xzkjgzCjytBc]

The woman in the video shouldn't be upset

People have the right to feel whatever they want. However, it is less acceptable to respond however we want. This woman responded well to a shitty situation, yet she was entitled to call out the cashier's bullshit. Sure, it's admirable to act professional (and she did), but it goes both ways.

The woman in the video shouldn't be upset. It's possible that the cashier had more problems with bounced checks with Africans than with other races. This isn't to say that the cashier shouldn't treat everyone respectfully, but her response might've been an instinctive one based on past experience.

I treat people respective of how they behave. Being too lazy and ignorant is not an excuse to run on auto-pilot, and treat people like shit. I give everyone the benefit of the doubt despite how predictable the world is.

And I agree with Jacobi's post about there being many forms of privilege, and race is not necessarily the most important one.

Despite whether this is true, it indicates we are eager to talk about something else. I understand this topic is uncomfortable, but a perfectly reasonable option would be for you to not talk about it instead of insisting we talk about something else. Because ending the conversation compounds the issue.

 

[this is only temporary]

Well, talk about it then, I wasn't trying to end the conversation or compound the issue at all. It is complicated all by itself without me helping.

In what ways have you been victimized by white privilege? I suppose we could all share stories of how people of other races have treated us badly. I've got a few myself, but then I wouldn't be talking about white privilege, it would instead be me talking about how people of other races have sometimes treated me badly because I am white. Which I'm not sure would be welcome here. Living in a mixed area, this happens sometimes. Also, I've heard Asian business owners say some fairly awful things to me about black people, so where's the white privilege in that? There are also issues within the black community of people treating each other badly and even though they are the same race, and this doesn't need to be ignored either.

Yes racism exists, but it is a little more complicated than white privilege. You get extra privileges being white if everyone around you is also white, but that's not really the world I live in. Is that the world you live in? Is everyone around you white, and do they treat you badly? If this is the case then I can certainly imagine how you'd conclude white privilege is very real and important. It is amazing how quickly it dissipates when that is not the case, however.

 

[barbad0s]

Also, I've heard Asian business owners say some fairly awful things to me about black people, so where's the white privilege in that?

While I agree with the rest of your post, I have to point out that the white privilege in this case is obviously present in the fact that it is blacks who are discriminated against, while whites are exempt.

Also, in general, as in, in the entire world, white people are treated better than average and black people below average. If anyone is not aware of this, either they aren't very observant or haven't travelled very much. It's not exactly *that* context-specific or something that "quickly dissipates". Western nations are usually the privileged nations that are trying to spread their ideals to the world, and everyone around the world knows it.

 

[this is only temporary]

While I agree with the rest of your post, I have to point out that the white privilege in this case is obviously present in the fact that it is blacks who are discriminated against, while whites are exempt.

Also, in general, as in, in the entire world, white people are treated better than average and black people below average. If anyone is not aware of this, either they aren't very observant or haven't travelled very much. It's not exactly *that* context-specific or something that "quickly dissipates". Western nations are usually the privileged nations that are trying to spread their ideals to the world, and everyone around the world knows it.

No, I haven't traveled very much, have you? I am not very capable of talking about white privilege or race relations very knowledgeably in the context of the entire world, only what I'm familiar with, which I'll be glad to share. I do see many instances of blacks being discriminated against where I live, and I don't like it, but I also think it is more complicated than only white privilege.

But about your second point, I'm not sure you're entirely 100% accurate about western nations being the only ones trying to spread their ideals. I've read about quite a few instances where african, asian and middle eastern nations and groups do the same thing. (That is a big umbrella) There are groups who believe everyone should live under sharia law, for instance, and my history may be rusty, but I'm pretty sure many asian and african nations spent a good deal of time invading each other. Correct me if I'm wrong about that.

I will say, European nations seem to have been better at it so far. By the way, the US is well on it's way to being "majority minority" so does that mean it is still considered western/european?

 

[Flavus Aquila]

Considering how many whites are in African/Muslim countries vs non-whites in countries primarily white, you make an unrealistic point.

You obviously don't travel much.

 

[barbad0s]

No, I haven't traveled very much, have you? I am not very capable of talking about white privilege or race relations very knowledgeably in the context of the entire world, only what I'm familiar with, which I'll be glad to share. I do see many instances of blacks being discriminated against where I live, and I don't like it, but I also think it is more complicated than only white privilege.

But about your second point, I'm not sure you're entirely 100% accurate about western nations being the only ones trying to spread their ideals. I've read about quite a few instances where african, asian and middle eastern nations and groups do the same thing. (That is a big umbrella) There are groups who believe everyone should live under sharia law, for instance, and my history may be rusty, but I'm pretty sure many asian and african nations spent a good deal of time invading each other. Correct me if I'm wrong about that.

I will say, European nations seem to have been better at it so far. By the way, the US is well on it's way to being "majority minority" so does that mean it is still considered western/european?

Yes, I have travelled a lot in spite of my age.

I would not rely on ancient history in isolated areas of the world to extrapolate into our modernized society if I were in your situation.

If you do not have the opportunity to travel, at least read weblogs of people of various races living in various countries from various different points of view to open your eyes a little more.

In regards to the US, people assimilate in order to be accepted into the country. The rest is unknown and in the hands of politics.

 

[Stu]

Safeway is a large corporation. The lady in the video presents as a upper middle class individual by her apparel, make up, jewellery, vocabulary and diction. More than likely when out grocery shopping with her daughter and sister-in law she presented along the same lines as when she sat for the video. The Cashier is described as being young so it could be assumed that she was also inexperienced and could only interpret the lady in the video as a "black" woman. It could be accepted that her racism was her deal and not the store policy. But I find that hard to swallow. I think it is obvious that the cashier had been instructed to scrutinize black customers, and had been done to do so by someone who had authority over her, perhaps even the manager who became involved and I am sure apologized left right and center once she or he realized that the customer was perfectly capable of balancing a checking account and more than likely spent thousands of dollars on groceries a year.

There has to be pressure on the store management to reduce the number of bad checks being accepted. It is the problem with writing checks vs using cash or an electronic card, no instant verification of one's bonafides. Writing a check invites scrutiny. I remember Jerry Sienfeld had a routine about how in his "experience" women loved writing checks while men loathed it. Men saw it a having to write an excuse where woman were so quick to whip out their check book you would thing they were creating money.

That aside the sister in-law wrote her check and her blonde hair was taken as her bonafides but the black woman was held to an entirely different standard, in front of her daughter. Only a naive idiot would not see racial discrimination at work. And I would posit it originates not at the cashier but in the management of the corporation. The cashier learned an important lesson. Working for a living sucks. Especially when it is you who gets thrown under the bus. A point may have been made by the Sister in-law who used her whiteness to redress a wrong but how much of an impact is that really going to make? The lowly store manager is still under pressure to reduce the amount of bad checks being accepted. The company is still going to assume that it is the members of the lower economic class that are writing those checks, black people are still way more likely to be members of the lower economic class than white people.

While treating each member of our society fairly on a daily basis is important, it is just a band-aid covering the real disparity that exists economically between the races. And what do we really do about that? Less and less.

Head Start (ie) is an early education program that was started in the Johnson Administration, it has proven results in lifting people out of poverty. But rather then reinvesting in this success our congress has chosen to cut its budget as part of the Sequestration. This year thousands of kids were cut from it classrooms. But what happened with the Air Traffic Control system? It received a special dispensation to keep its budget from being cut. Why? Just look at who is using the air transport system, look at them by the color of their skin. It does not take a genius to see who gets what and why.

 

[this is only temporary]

S...I think it is obvious that the cashier had been instructed to scrutinize black customers, and had been done to do so by someone who had authority over her, perhaps even the manager who became involved and I am sure apologized left right and center once she or he realized that the customer was perfectly capable of balancing a checking account and more than likely spent thousands of dollars on groceries a year.

There has to be pressure on the store management to reduce the number of bad checks being accepted.

Stu, I don't think this is even remotely obvious. I've worked retail in the past and have never once received any kind of instructions like this, have you? There is far more pressure on store management to avoid costly lawsuits, and these instructions would have amounted to an engraved invitation to "Please Sue Us for $1,000,000,000!" The cashier, who was racist, probably ignored the store policy of "get these forms of ID for checks from everyone." She was a bad and racist cashier, obviously, but to say it is store policy? I very seriously doubt it.

And Niffer, you tell me a weblog I should be reading and I will read it. Unless it has anything to do with infowars or crappy youtube videos, or nutcases, then don't, because then I might have to have Stu punch you for me. (just kidding)

 

[Stu]

Stu, I don't think this is even remotely obvious.

Why would a cashier take it upon his or her self to scrutinize anyone?

 

[this is only temporary]

Why would a cashier take it upon his or her self to scrutinize anyone?

'Cause she's a racist dumbass? Probably not because it is store policy.

 

[barbad0s]

Stu, I don't think this is even remotely obvious. I've worked retail in the past and have never once received any kind of instructions like this, have you? There is far more pressure on store management to avoid costly lawsuits, and these instructions would have amounted to an engraved invitation to "Please Sue Us for $1,000,000,000!" The cashier, who was racist, probably ignored the store policy of "get these forms of ID for checks from everyone." She was a bad and racist cashier, obviously, but to say it is store policy? I very seriously doubt it.

And Niffer, you tell me a weblog I should be reading and I will read it. Unless it has anything to do with infowars or crappy youtube videos, or nutcases, then don't, because then I might have to have Stu punch you for me. (just kidding)

Yes, I will have Stu punch me with his manly scarred bicep.

Seriously you could just google things like "black expat Japan" or "white expat china" or "hispanic expat africa" and you will come up with a selection. If you still want me to link some that I have found interesting and representative then I can do that too. It's just that the ones that I link here may be more biased towards my viewpoints, which might be something you would worry about.

 

[Stu]

'.....Probably not because it is store policy.

When was the last time you were followed by store security?

 

[this is only temporary]

When was the last time you were followed by store security?

I've run into a few overly aggressive store security guards. You give some idiot some power and a badge and there's no telling what they might do. One was at home depot a while ago when I was with my baby I got stopped at the door and had my baby carrier looked at extra carefully. I also have had black cashiers ask to see my driver's license at the checkout when the white cashiers who rang me up previously at the same store did not do that. This was at a little book/magazine/coffee store nearby a little while ago (this was ID on a debit card, mind you... I don't use checks.) I had my hair patted down by TSA fairly recently due to having bobby pins in there I forgot about but that was because I set off the security alarm. I've been followed a little bit from time to time but I just ignore them.

I know what you're saying, though, is that overzealous security people like that target blacks more often. Probably there is some truth in that, I don't know. You get an idiot with a badge and some racism and they probably do target minorities, I totally believe that, but it also works in reverse.

 

[Stu]

my point is that (in my opinion) since there is a perceived economic incentive for racial profiling that outweighs customer satisfaction at the corporate level, there is a mechanism for transmission of that racism down to the point of sale interaction.

 

[this is only temporary]

my point is that (in my opinion) since there is a perceived economic incentive for racial profiling that outweighs customer satisfaction at the corporate level, there is a mechanism for transmission of that racism down to the point of sale interaction.

hm. Maybe I don't look rich enough then.

I know all people do racial profiling -- that is probably a part of human nature, even --

But I think at the corporate level for most companies, there are also some extremely big incentives not to. I mean, if they did made this their policy, they'd have employees (who could become disgruntled ones) running around saying "Rich, Inc. Told Me to Target Blacks!" And then there would be some kind of class action lawsuit and a huge media thing, etc. One good lawsuit and a ruined reputation is much more expensive than bad checks.

I think this sort of thing mostly happens on an individual level, rather than an institutional level, and is caused mainly by the fact that some cashiers and security guards are not that bright and are sometimes racist. Also, racial profiling can sometimes be blamed for people's actions, when in actual fact, there may have been extenuating circumstances.

 

[Gul Dukat]

Racism definitely exists but the whole term 'privilege' seems to be about people without power blaming the people who are perceived to have the most power for the fact that they can't get ahead. I think it's a lame way to go about living your life and addressing racism because it implies that there's one specific group that is to blame for all of society's ills and paints racism as being 'someone else's problem' while justifying all kinds of prejudice and resentment on behalf of the 'oppressed' groups.

Some forms of prejudice work in people's favor-- such as Asian kids and their superior intelligence, or black people and their superior athletic ability... these things are at least in part socially defined and if someone's prejudice is reinforcing the idea that you have some sort of 'advantage', then you're probably more likely to receive reinforcement which could help you both socially and psychologically. But it can also hurt these people by painting them as something other than what they are and ignoring or obscuring their true talents. I think that people need to open their minds and stay on top of their prejudices but this is something that everyone has to do, it's not the exclusive responsibility of a single group.

'Privilege' also suggests that anyone who is a white straight male and is unemployed or poor must be completely useless and lazy for not using all of his obvious advantages to coast towards riches and fame, while someone who is not 'privileged' must have overcome tremendous obstacles and must have great amounts of strength for achieving much less. Neither of these preconceptions are in any way beneficial... it hurts the poor 'privileged' man because he sees himself as being MORE of a loser, and it hurts the non-privileged person because they are more likely to be tempted to content themselves with less.

There is also the implication that it's time for these 'privileged' people to get out of the way and let everyone else have their 'turn'... that he should ignore promotions, reject job offers, that he should stop trying, that all of these things will come to him even if he doesn't work at it, that he doesn't deserve what his parents had, that he doesn't deserve what he currently has, that employers are always right to hire somebody less privileged, etc. The idea completely disregards the fact that we're all individuals who cannot and should not be held accountable for the actions of people we didn't know and couldn't control.

This is just NOT how society works and it isn't how people are. We are all responsible for one thing: ourselves in the here and now... we're not living in the same society that we were living in 100 or 50 or even 10 years ago.

The real damage to society is being caused by nepotism and 'looking out for your own kind'... this is something that all of the races do.