public shaming

niffer said:
In a way we are all being shamed publicly every day by Facebook, LinkedIn, etc.
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So much public shaming goes on via social networks. It's not shaming for punishment, but shaming with malicious intent.

I'm going to make a few big sweeping statements in the next few sentences, so I apologize. Public shaming worked because people still held their personal integrity and worth as important. Especially with today's youth, shaming would not hold the same impact as it once did, because they don't hold the same personal and societal values that made public shaming useful. I would even say that society as a general doesn't hold those same values (not to say they should, or that these values are right). For example, look at the Steubenville incident. When the boys were publicly shamed, they became the victims of the entire ordeal. Shaming just doesn't work - regardless of it being right or wrong, I don't think it's an effective 'punishment'.

I'm not sure how to effectively 'punish' the current generation, especially when it seems they have so little respect for authority and repercussions. It seems like corporal punishment isn't of value either to them either. The millennial generation is very unique.
 
I remember they posted the mugshots of drink drivers in the newspaper where I used to live in the past as part of their punishment. I don't know if it deterred them, but I'm thinking it really made sure they don't forget the mistake they made if someone they know saw it and proceeded to tell everyone.

But some people asked "if they don't care enough to not put everyone's lives in danger, why would posting their picture in the newspaper make them care more?".
 
Well, all public shaming is is an especially aggressive form of peer pressure, right? If people were not afraid of public shaming to some degree, then people would be running around without pants and doing things like picking their noses in public.

Personally, if I feel like what I've done is right, then an attempted shaming would have no effect whatsoever, since I'm not real big on peer pressure of any kind. If I feel like what I've done is wrong, then I know it, and usually the self-inflicted shame is quite sufficient. It probably would be better to encourage people to think about why they did whatever offensive thing they did and hopefully giving them the tools to change if needed.

That said, I don't mind watching drunk drivers squirm, given the opportunity, and if it works (keeps them from doing it again) then that's fine with me. Just not sure it would work all the time if there's no internal motivation. The one possible benefit would be to make others aware of whatever potentially harmful behavior the person was guilty of so perhaps they could take steps to prevent it from happening again. (e.g. if you see someone who was on the drunk driver website drinking, take their keys.) perhaps.

Oh, yes, and I'm not even looking up anything about online fat shaming, but that sounds an awful lot like plain old-fashioned bullying, which sucks. Probably makes people kill themselves more often than it makes them get healthy.
 
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I bet public shaming will work better on some and less well on others; and shaming would be best implemented into a plan where degrees of punishment escalate slowly after first educating the child and then giving them a few chances to succeed in performing the appropriate behaviors. The particulars would best be implemented by the childs parent and also geared to be specific to the child.

Well that's my take on public shaming, and a lot of the responses I've seen are pretty short sighted.
 
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Framed said:
What do you think? Do you think it's ethical/unethical? Effective or ineffective? Fair or unfair?

How do you feel about public street side shaming for minor crimes?

What about online shaming such as "fat shaming?
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Public or online shaming nowadays is just a filtered version of stoning. Back in the day when you judged someone for their actions and the actions were deemed punishable; you threw stones at that person or force the person to wear a mark on their face or body or clothing as a way to remind people of the person's wrong doing. Since all of that is illegal now; people still want to stone someone and make an example out of them. There is a strange desire within humans to hurt an individual as a mob; through exaggerated hysteria; similar to witch hunting or publicly shaming an adulterer. I think this is the animal or the reptilian aspect of humans; the need to cast someone out or find a scapegoat to punish and to publicly humiliate. This urge is still alive and kicking; now people just leave nasty comments on your posts or profile to get a reaction out of you so they can feel better themselves.

Fat shaming on the other hand is an anecdote to the public obesity epidemic we are facing. The divide between the fit and the unhealthy is getting wider and wider and forcing people to choose sides; which is ridiculous. The obese, fat and unhealthy bunch are uncomfortable with all the fitness trends spurting everywhere because it shakes the foundation of an unhealthy lifestyle that people chose to adopt. While the fit and active people are not afraid to showcase their physiques and effort publicly - creating stark contrast to the lifestyle of the unhealthy.

That's all it really is - Contrast - that is creating the divide.
 
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I agree with [MENTION=10252]say what[/MENTION] in regards to the idea that showcasing someone's negative behavior via "shaming' only works if that person had a sense of personal honor and integrity to begin with and they are being called out for going against those values. Not much use these days for the ideals of honor it seems.

In Native culture, it is quite common for those older than you to "shame" or tease you if you behave poorly. It isn't done in this grandiose manner, like standing on a corner with a sign, but rather through making comments. It isn't a pervasive thing where people are constantly saying things about/to you but if you do something wrong, you can bet you are going to hear about it. In Native society, your actions reflect on your family and your tribe....even more enlightened people realize, on Native's as a whole. As an individual, I carry the honor of my family...my ancestor's are a part of me and I am a part of them...I am a reflection of those who came before, those who are here and those yet to come. So, we do tend to chastise untoward behavior. I see nothing wrong with this.

If we had a type of community where "shaming" was a reflection of calling someone out for not behaving honorably, I wouldn't have a big issue with it. It seems though, that mainstream "shaming' is more about taking jabs, making fun, being cruel.
 
Nixie said:
I agree with @say what in regards to the idea that showcasing someone's negative behavior via "shaming' only works if that person had a sense of personal honor and integrity to begin with and they are being called out for going against those values. Not much use these days for the ideals of honor it seems.

In Native culture, it is quite common for those older than you to "shame" or tease you if you behave poorly. It isn't done in this grandiose manner, like standing on a corner with a sign, but rather through making comments. It isn't a pervasive thing where people are constantly saying things about/to you but if you do something wrong, you can bet you are going to hear about it. In Native society, your actions reflect on your family and your tribe....even more enlightened people realize, on Native's as a whole. As an individual, I carry the honor of my family...my ancestor's are a part of me and I am a part of them...I am a reflection of those who came before, those who are here and those yet to come. So, we do tend to chastise untoward behavior. I see nothing wrong with this.

If we had a type of community where "shaming" was a reflection of calling someone out for not behaving honorably, I wouldn't have a big issue with it. It seems though, that mainstream "shaming' is more about taking jabs, making fun, being cruel.
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Sounds very Klingon, which is to say I like it.
 
Are you serious?! People actually use public shaming?! That's awful! That's so crazy. Why not just toss tomatoes and other easily smashable fruit on them. Tar and feathers. That's terrible. I didn't read the article but of course the images in my head are bad enough. And I think that's just terrible.
 
Framed said:
What do you think? Do you think it's ethical/unethical? Effective or ineffective? Fair or unfair?

How do you feel about public street side shaming for minor crimes?

What about online shaming such as "fat shaming?
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This is a loaded question...


Like anything, it depends on the context of the situation and the crime the person does. I think about that teen mom... Farrah Abrams.. the one who did the sex tape for attention and was shamed for it and I still personally believe that it was fine. Same thing goes for a guy who makes a sex tape for attention. Hell, even Justin Beiber deserves shame for his stupidity. I think if you live in the public eye and do something stupid for attention -- then shame is justifiable because it's teaching the people who look up to these morons that you will face consequences and embarrassment if you do something stupid.


If it's things like fat shaming or body shaming then I think it's wrong. But if you post a stupid pic of yourself on a certain community to gain attention and get shamed.... what do you expect? Again, two different contexts.

What is public street side shaming?
 
Nixie said:
If we had a type of community where "shaming" was a reflection of calling someone out for not behaving honorably, I wouldn't have a big issue with it. It seems though, that mainstream "shaming' is more about taking jabs, making fun, being cruel.
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^ This.

The mainstream shaming seems to centered around celebrities and Hollywood though (with the intent to hate). The examples of shaming celebs were the first thought in my mind when I see "shaming". As for online communities and the like (for non-celebs), I think it's just a free for all since much of the shaming cannot be fully controlled. I don't get why it's so hard for people to understand that if you post something you don't want out there, you run the gamet of being hated. Think before you post.
 
shaming another is a disgusting dehumanizing practice and i'm totally against it as a form of punishment or correction.
 
bionic said:
This is a loaded question...


Like anything, it depends on the context of the situation and the crime the person does. I think about that teen mom... Farrah Abrams.. the one who did the sex tape for attention and was shamed for it and I still personally believe that it was fine. Same thing goes for a guy who makes a sex tape for attention. Hell, even Justin Beiber deserves shame for his stupidity. I think if you live in the public eye and do something stupid for attention -- then shame is justifiable because it's teaching the people who look up to these morons that you will face consequences and embarrassment if you do something stupid.


If it's things like fat shaming or body shaming then I think it's wrong. But if you post a stupid pic of yourself on a certain community to gain attention and get shamed.... what do you expect? Again, two different contexts.

What is public street side shaming?
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@Framed That reminds me of this:

[video=youtube;kl1ujzRidmU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl1ujzRidmU[/video]

^ I'm all for things like this. I think it's fair enough since the daughter did not follow the rules. Shooting the laptop was a bit much (he spent sooo much!) but I can understand if you're so frustrated with your kid after trying to discipline them. Sometimes desperate things call for desperate measures. As for the Walmart lady... I'm on the fence. Did she steal food to try to feed her children? Why did she steal? It depends on the reason for me. I see shaming as a useful tool but it must fit the crime and it is not foolproof.
 
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I think it is fair to say that most/all of our expressed behaviors are reliant upon internal measures/control. Whether that be fear of getting caught or facing punishment, we modify our behavior in exchange for being part of a society. Society exists because we agree to the social contract.

In a rational sense I see shaming is a consequence of behavior that is deemed unworthy. I think that people resort to public shaming because they want to instill a strong sense that the offenders behavior was wrong and reinforce the idea that they shouldn't do it again. As a punishment it avoids a physical consequence (like jail) but relies upon an emotional punishment.

Like all disciplinary action, it can either succeed or fail to change behavior.

However, so-called "fat shaming" and other such actions are just bullying and shouldn't be considered a part of disciplinary action.
 
Where's the long line behind the WalMart thief sign? Point? Making an example of one out of a thousand people will not work. Maybe that person had a choice between a sign and time????

Too many variables to make a just call for me.
 
I don't like it.
I would ask parents who do that would they like if their boss put them with table "Worked bad this month" near street.
I could not do that to my children.
 
I don't feel comfortable with the idea of public shaming because it can go very wrong and be used in the wrong way. But I do think that done the right way in the right circumstance with the right individual it probably would work better than anything else.

When I was a teenager my family had a trailer in a resort that we would go to on weekends and one summer weekend I got very drunk when I was at a dance with friends. My parents found me at 2 in the morning on the beach with some strange guy. I was very lucky that nothing bad happened to me and of course my parents had good reasons to be very upset with me, but what my parents did was probably the most effective with me. They did not punish me or yell at me. The next day when I was lying around the trailer with a hangover, people that I knew from the park kept dropping by to tell me that they had heard stories of a girl in the park doing crazy things. They were basically making fun of me in a good-natured way, telling me I had made the front page news of the local paper and telling me stories about this 'girl'. I was really embarrassed but thought it was funny at the same time. I think in my case it was just the right amount of public humiliation done the right way by the right people. It really worked for me but I am aware that it may not work as well with others in different circumstances and that it could cause more harm than good.
 
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