[PUG] The Drug Culture

[randomsomeone]

And those around you...are affected as well...You bring them down with you...where ever you go, you take them down with you...

Yes, this is part of a very deep and very profound grasp of evil in this world...the way it ensnares us, ensnares the innocent, destroys potential, robs us of goodness that should have been, breaks things. It is well worth walking away from because another choice might actually have the opposite effect.

 

[bamf]

The problem is addiction is irrational, and immensely hard to break. People sometimes think that the addict can just walk away. Let me tell you; it's not that easy. Addiction is a horrible horrible burden. The addict often sees what they are doing to the people around them, how much they're hurting them, and that destroys the addict even more. So what do they do to feel better? Get more drugs. Addiction is so fucked up.

 

[Entyqua]

Yes, this is part of a very deep and very profound grasp of evil in this world...the way it ensnares us, ensnares the innocent, destroys potential, robs us of goodness that should have been, breaks things. It is well worth walking away from because another choice might actually have the opposite effect.

exactly...

 

[slant]

Yeah and I can name the members who will participate in this debate too:

BenW, Satya, TheLastMohican, Shai Gar (briefly, since he'll join the thread in the middle of hot debate and then suddenly disappear after making a few points and then refusing to argue them any further, likely citing the order of shai gar to back up his points), Arbygil ( who will post when the debate gets too heated between Satya and whoever he'd decided to pick on, alongside a crowd of infj members who are too squeamish and are crying in the background) BenW will arrive very early into the thread and will come with strong points that continue to impress a variety of the main debaters, but he will constantly restate points because the other people's arguments don't seem to be scratching the surface. Questing Poet will probably join in too for a while and will try to side with both teams but will have an obvious favorance for one side, and of course The Last Mohican's role is to find inconsistencies in all parties' logic and make them sound like babbling buffoons, while making no real argument of his own.

 

[Entyqua]

The problem is addiction is irrational, and immensely hard to break. People sometimes think that the addict can just walk away. Let me tell you; it's not that easy. Addiction is a horrible horrible burden. The addict often sees what they are doing to the people around them, how much they're hurting them, and that destroys the addict even more. So what do they do to feel better? Get more drugs. Addiction is so fucked up.

*hugs*

hit the nail on the head with that one

 

[Entyqua]

Yeah and I can name the members who will participate in this debate too:

BenW, Satya, TheLastMohican, Shai Gar (briefly, since he'll join the thread in the middle of hot debate and then suddenly disappear after making a few points and then refusing to argue them any further, likely citing the order of shai gar to back up his points), Arbygil ( who will post when the debate gets too heated between Satya and whoever he'd decided to pick on, alongside a crowd of infj members who are too squeamish and are crying in the background) BenW will arrive very early into the thread and will come with strong points that continue to impress a variety of the main debaters, but he will constantly restate points because the other people's arguments don't seem to be scratching the surface. Questing Poet will probably join in too for a while and will try to side with both teams but will have an obvious favorance for one side, and of course The Last Mohican's role is to find inconsistencies in all parties' logic and make them sound like babbling buffoons, while making no real argument of his own.

so true...

you realize at some point I will be one of those INFJ's crying in the backround...and I made the damn thread!

 

[Questingpoet]

Yeah and I can name the members who will participate in this debate too:

BenW, Satya, TheLastMohican, Shai Gar (briefly, since he'll join the thread in the middle of hot debate and then suddenly disappear after making a few points and then refusing to argue them any further, likely citing the order of shai gar to back up his points), Arbygil ( who will post when the debate gets too heated between Satya and whoever he'd decided to pick on, alongside a crowd of infj members who are too squeamish and are crying in the background) BenW will arrive very early into the thread and will come with strong points that continue to impress a variety of the main debaters, but he will constantly restate points because the other people's arguments don't seem to be scratching the surface. Questing Poet will probably join in too for a while and will try to side with both teams but will have an obvious favorance for one side, and of course The Last Mohican's role is to find inconsistencies in all parties' logic and make them sound like babbling buffoons, while making no real argument of his own.

And Slant will try to make this thread her own like she always does...like she's trying to do already by predicting everyones actions and thoughts. She'll entice and confuse, poke and prod trying to get knee jerk responses. She'll throw in a few personal insults to make it interesting. Oh, and try to get factions to form. Does that just about cover it? Yes, we're all very predictable Pookie.

 

[slant]

And Slant will try to make this thread her own like she always does...like she's trying to do already by predicting everyones actions and thoughts. She'll entice and confuse, poke and prod trying to get knee jerk responses. She'll throw in a few personal insults to make it interesting. Oh, and try to get factions to form. Does that just about cover it? Yes, we're all very predictable Pookie.

Well Questingpoet, I can't fight the facts, thats exactly what I will and I am doing at the moment.

 

[Entyqua]

Well Questingpoet, I can't fight the facts, thats exactly what I will and I am doing at the moment.

I hereby acknowledge this threads tragic derailment, and henceforth decree that from now on we will pick up the pieces and continue on foot!

 

[DefectiveCreative]

Well your thread title and the way you worded the poll was never going to help things IMO. Apart from implying that drugs are automatically negative ("Have you been affected by..." rather than something like "Have your experiences with drugs been...") they also implied that anyone who takes drugs is automatically part of the "Drugs culture", like everyone who's ever taken a drug gets together every couple of months for a chat or something. =/

FWIW IMO the evidence on how to tackle the problems of drug addiction and drug-related crime is clear, remove the prohibition on the non-physically addictive drugs (cannabis, ecstasy, LSD, etc.) so they can be properly regulated and make the strong physically addictive drugs (heroin, crack cocaine, crystal meth, etc.) available on prescription from a doctor.

 

[Entyqua]

Well your thread title and the way you worded the poll was never going to help things IMO. Apart from implying that drugs are automatically negative ("Have you been affected by..." rather than something like "Have your experiences with drugs been...") they also implied that anyone who takes drugs is automatically part of the "Drugs culture", like everyone who's ever taken a drug gets together every couple of months for a chat or something. =/

FWIW IMO the evidence on how to tackle the problems of drug addiction and drug-related crime is clear, remove the prohibition on the non-physically addictive drugs (cannabis, ecstasy, LSD, etc.) so they can be properly regulated and make the strong physically addictive drugs (heroin, crack cocaine, crystal meth, etc.) available on prescription from a doctor.

how can it not be negative??? Honestly give me ONE GOOD THING to come out of the drug culture?

Affected...yes...and I speak about the very addictive ones...the ones that TAKE people away...

And E has taken plenty of children...

And people abuse prescriptions as much as the illegal substances...in fact in some areas its the worst form of drug abuse!

EDIT:

It is a culture...despite what we want to believe...we ignore it like the big purple elephant in the room. Its a BIG culture...and MANY people are affected by it...not just users...so people like me who have lost some one they loved to it are also a part of that culture.

 

[Entyqua]

I would also like to add...that the drug culture has had a negative effect on me...I will NOT be logical and I WILL get emotional...I realize no one is going to read the whole thread...so I will occasionally remind you all...

 

[slant]

Who wants to debate emotions over real logic? C'mon now.

 

[DefectiveCreative]

Well that's just the thing, what is this "Drug culture" that you speak of? Who exactly does it involve? Why is it considered a "culture"? Why not a "movement" or just "Something that some people do"?

IMO the truth is that the "drug culture" doesn't exist, it's just a buzz-word invented by politicians and the media to lump all drug users in to the same bracket, regardless of whether they took a toke of cannabis once or whether they're a hardcore smack addict.

If you want clearer answers you have to ask clearer questions. So let me ask you, what are you talking about here? Are you talking about all drugs and the people who use them? Or are you just talking about drug addicts and the people who supply them?

Oh, and on the subject of Ecstasy, as the head of the British advisory panel on drugs pointed out recently ecstasy is provably no more dangerous than the chances of someone falling off a horse. And the vast majority of the handful of people who die from it (something like a dozen people in the UK every year) do so because it's mixed with all kinds of crap so they don't know what's in it and drug advice is such a propagandist joke in the West that most of them wouldn't have a clue about it's effects and possible dangers anyway. If it was legalised both problems would be solved and less people would die, and that's just a stone cold fact.

 

[enfp can be shy]

The solution to the drug problems is not within the people who get addicted, or who become dealers. There are gonna be such people, as long as there's such industry. There's gonna be such industry, as long as there's poverty. There's gonna be poverty, as long as there are stuck up people in effective control.

 

[youhemmein]

Slant- you forgot one person.

ME! And how I'm going to come in here, throw in a quip that's only slightly relevant and not actually very funny, but might reflect some personal inner-sorrow, drop a couple of innuendos, and disappear. But not really.

So. Drugs are bad, mk?

I can think of better ways to get high.

Aaaand...

*poof*

 

[bamf]

If it was legalised both problems would be solved and less people would die, and that's just a stone cold fact.

That's a stone cold opinion (that I agree with) with reasonable assumptions, but hardly a stone cold fact.

 

[BenW]

From a purely pragmatic viewpoint...
Legalize them, all of them, and the profit margins for violent criminals vanish.
Drug dealers would be gone practically overnight as corporate entities and some smaller businesses begin to fill the demand.

We (the US) learned exactly the lessons we needed to learn from alcohol prohibition, but apparently we've yet to make the connection to all the other drugs...
Even though the situation is EXACTLY the same.

And, from an idealistic viewpoint...
In a free country, I have the right to put whatever drugs in my body I want.
The end.

That's a stone cold opinion (that I agree with) with reasonable assumptions, but hardly a stone cold fact.

The end of alcohol prohibition ended virtually all alcohol-related violence.
Why would other drugs be any different?

 

[Crow]

My wife lost her only daughter , last year, to a heroin overdose.
The stupid, stupid girl had been using since she was 15.
Heroin took 20 years to finally kill her, but in her wake lies a truly awful trail of debris:
Four messed-up and maladjusted no-hope kids.
The waste of hundreds of thousands of hard-earned dollars.
An aching wound that will never go away...

Ugh.

 

[Entyqua]

Well that's just the thing, what is this "Drug culture" that you speak of? Who exactly does it involve? Why is it considered a "culture"? Why not a "movement" or just "Something that some people do"?

IMO the truth is that the "drug culture" doesn't exist, it's just a buzz-word invented by politicians and the media to lump all drug users in to the same bracket, regardless of whether they took a toke of cannabis once or whether they're a hardcore smack addict.

If you want clearer answers you have to ask clearer questions. So let me ask you, what are you talking about here? Are you talking about all drugs and the people who use them? Or are you just talking about drug addicts and the people who supply them?

Oh, and on the subject of Ecstasy, as the head of the British advisory panel on drugs pointed out recently ecstasy is provably no more dangerous than the chances of someone falling off a horse. And the vast majority of the handful of people who die from it (something like a dozen people in the UK every year) do so because it's mixed with all kinds of crap so they don't know what's in it and drug advice is such a propagandist joke in the West that most of them wouldn't have a clue about it's effects and possible dangers anyway. If it was legalised both problems would be solved and less people would die, and that's just a stone cold fact.

less people would die if all drugs were legalized as you say...but it wont happen so more people will die...

On the topic of the culture...i dont care if its a buzz word...its not a movement...movements are a positive thing, and as i said before I AM SPEAKING ABOUT THE ADDICTIVE DEADLY ONES...

I am talking about all of it...the users the suppliers the cops who enforce the laws, the loved ones left behind in the aftermath...