Random Religious Thoughts

[meowzician]

It was almost 35 years ago that I read the book—I was 13 at the time. While the particulars of the book don’t feel very accessible to me anymore, I can say that the perspective presented there inspired a deeper and more intentional commitment to my faith, at the time.

It was influential largely because while I was “committed to following Jesus”, it was an initiation into theology. And discovering theology lit up parts of my brain that I didn’t know were there.

Anyways, as best as I can recall, the themes centered around the holiness of God, the grace of God through redemption, and the importance of obedience, discipline, and integrity.

I mentioned the book because I thought it would likely align well with @QuickTwist’s framework.

Thank you.

 

[Fruiteloop]

No one is good, everyone is bad?

I don't understand.

I thought love was supposed to turn you into a good person.

Only if you are a good person can you love others.

Bad people don't love others.

So it is a contradiction to say good people do not exist.

(why this obsession with people being bad? are you actually trying to change them or not?)

I feel like I am going to be attacked for this.

 

[ErikAlberto]

@QuickTwist, the general sense I get from @Fruiteloop ’s response to some of your posts is that she is responding to a perceived assertion that “everyone is bad.” (I’m not sure I’ve followed the back-and-forth between you two closely enough to fully understand.)

I’m wondering if the general place you’re coming from in this perceived assertion that “everyone is bad” is a theological one. Are you making reference to scriptures that support the interpretation that man is born into a state of separation from God because of a nature that is essentially evil? Or are you saying something else that has more to do with your experience of people, their selfishness, or their motivations—a sort of feeling you’ve always had about people that has been reinforced by negative experiences?

I think clearly establishing whether you are talking about doctrine here could clear up a lot of misunderstanding. What I mean is that, if you’re talking about doctrine, this isn’t personal but rather your interpretation of scripture. And because you see the Word of God as infallible and representative of truth and reality as they are, I wonder if perhaps where you are coming from is a humble and loving place—in the sense that what you are really trying to point to is that, if the nature of man is evil, it is not hopeless, because that is precisely what Jesus died and was resurrected for.

Is that not what you’re really getting at? God’s redemption and heart for a fallen people?

I can also imagine that it might be frustrating for you, @QuickTwist, that when people bring up ideas like “God is love,” or point to experiences of goodness, virtue, and love in human beings, if it feels to you as though those things are being presented in a way that contradicts doctrines concerning God’s holiness and man’s fallen nature. I don’t know if that is part of what is happening for you here, but I wonder if it might be.

Because if that’s the case, then perhaps what we’re talking about is a matter of tone rather than intention or meaning. It would be a matter of saying, “This doesn’t come from me—it comes from God.” It wouldn’t be personal, but rather an impersonal assertion of a fundamental theological stance of yours.

Does this make sense to you both?

Then what I’m hearing from you, @Fruiteloop, is that it feels like @QuickTwist is completely dismissing the presence of real and genuine love in humanity that is free of ulterior motives, such as the kind of love and nurturing seen in a healthy mother of an infant.That to dismiss the presence of any and all virtue as even a possibility within humanity would be, in fact, preposterous and completely misguided.

Is that where you’re coming from?

Perhaps you can both agree that there are instances where humanity displays genuine virtue, but that there are different perspectives on the nature of man—whether it is essentially good or evil.

And then we can establish whether you guys are simply coming from different assumptions about the nature of humanity, and agree to disagree on that theological difference.

So, I’m curious to hear where you’re both coming from—for your own sakes, certainly, but also for the trajectory of the genuine contribution this thread can make to our community.