Rape prevention and female self-defense

arbygil said:
But do you see? We're "training women" as well. We have already trained women to be nervous around men, to expect the worst from them, and to expect that they're going to rape us if we're going home at night. What's the difference? And even in all the training we're given it hasn't significantly reduced the rape numbers. Women *have* been trained, to your gender's detriment. If you want to know why a woman might cross the street when they see another guy walking the same path at night, you have rape training on her end to thank for that.

We all get "trained" whether we like it or not. And it's nice when someone starts recognizing that hey, maybe there's something I can do to help rather than assuming it's all shit-all in a hand basket.

I guarantee you, many women have been brainwashed to believe that men are "out to get them." So it would more or less be equal if boys got taught that women are not objects for their own amusement.
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Wise you are.
 
arbygil said:
But do you see? We're "training women" as well. We have already trained women to be nervous around men, to expect the worst from them, and to expect that they're going to rape us if we're going home at night. What's the difference? And even in all the training we're given it hasn't significantly reduced the rape numbers. Women *have* been trained, to your gender's detriment. If you want to know why a woman might cross the street when they see another guy walking the same path at night, you have rape training on her end to thank for that.

We all get "trained" whether we like it or not. And it's nice when someone starts recognizing that hey, maybe there's something I can do to help rather than assuming it's all shit-all in a hand basket.

I guarantee you, many women have been brainwashed to believe that men are "out to get them." So it would more or less be equal if boys got taught that women are not objects for their own amusement.
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Boys ARE taught that. Everyday in school, I know I went through it. It doesn't change anything. If we want to prevent rapes then we have to be realistic, why waste money on something that wont solve anything or even lessen it?

We should concentrate our efforts onto what WILL work.

Women being trained to be weary of men is a GOOD thing, men are dangerous.
 
How fucked up is that? We're supposed to be afraid of all men and be able to defend ourselves in case a man cannot protect us.
 
arbygil said:
So it would more or less be equal if boys got taught that women are not objects for their own amusement.
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Ah, but women are that, to boys.
And no amount of brainwashing is going to change that.
Brainwashing takes time to be effective.
Sex drive takes not nearly as long, and it bypasses all the cerebral guilt/aversion stuff that brainwashing relies on.

But rest easy: men soon do come to realize that women have become far too dangerous to risk messing around with.
Many an upcoming old-maid is going to rue the day feminists began to get their way.
 
mf said:
Dear god, when did this become about emasculating boys?
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It always has been, the entire notion of retraining boys from thier gender social types has been talked about a million times before by people way smarter then us.

and this argument always boils down to them needing to find a way to emasculate boys. All the feminist sociologists who go on to become teachers and mold young minds all read the same literature from certain feminists. And they all seem to come to the agreement that the only way to fix boys is to raise them more like girls.

I really think you should check out this book
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0684849577/?tag=infjs-20
 
alt ctrl del said:
How fucked up is that? We're supposed to be afraid of all men and be able to defend ourselves in case a man cannot protect us.
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Being smaller physically unfortunately does that to you, its something you have to accept. I have always had great empathy for women regarding this. It sucks, and its why I have always been respectful of women I know and protective, because they go through enough bullshit in society... but thats the way it is. and it sucks.
 
Billy said:
They are responsible for needing putting up a fight though if no one is there to protect them.
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And that is where we disagree. They shouldn't need to be protected in the first place.

I know, I know, people will always act against other people, but in my 'idealist/unrealistic' mind, we can teach people to be responsible for their actions against other people. We can start this at a young age, and I'd wager it would save at least one person. That one person is enough for me (especially when simply educating boys about power differences between men and women, and how it's unfair wouldn't cost a penny. Maybe a couple of minutes of reinforcement a week, but educators could cut that out of just about anything).
 
This thread has become the LULZ
 
And exactly why the fuck should boys be taught to respect women?
This statement is guilty of the same sexism feminism stands against (on paper).

Men commit more violent crime against eachother than they do against women...(source)
So, following the same logic, shouldn't there be some grand campaign urging the teaching of boys to respect men?

How about trying to teach people to respect other people?
I'm pretty perplexed as to why this sort of thing isn't the conclusion people supposedly striving for "equality" reach automatically.
Why do we have "feminism" rather than "anti-sexism"?
 
Billy said:
Boys ARE taught that. Everyday in school, I know I went through it. It doesn't change anything. If we want to prevent rapes then we have to be realistic, why waste money on something that wont solve anything or even lessen it?

We should concentrate our efforts onto what WILL work.

Women being trained to be weary of men is a GOOD thing, men are dangerous.
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I don't think doing nothing solves the problem, either. They do nothing in other countries, and they give a woman a machete. But she still gets raped. I think education *does* help. I don't have the numbers, but some boys don't have anyone telling them how to treat a woman, and they need to learn it. Otherwise, they'll think rape is "normal." If they don't participate in it, they'll think it's the woman's fault for "dressing" the way she did, or that she was "asking for it" and that's just as faulty as the rapist himself.

Why should women be fearful of all men? Should they be afraid of their fathers, their brothers, their bosses? Not all men are bad and women should feel safe walking down a dark street alone. That is our right to have, and that freedom is taken away when we're taught to expect the worst.

I'm not saying Mary Jane Kaputnik should go around in la-la land downtown and not recognize dangers. But no woman should be made to feel fearful all the time because "the man is out to get her." That's messed up.
 
mf said:
And that is where we disagree. They shouldn't need to be protected in the first place.

I know, I know, people will always act against other people, but in my 'idealist/unrealistic' mind, we can teach people to be responsible for their actions against other people. We can start this at a young age, and I'd wager it would save at least one person. That one person is enough for me (especially when simply educating boys about power differences between men and women, and how it's unfair wouldn't cost a penny. Maybe a couple of minutes of reinforcement a week, but educators could cut that out of just about anything).
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lol you are not realistic, teaching boys that they are more physically powerful then girls is asinine. They already know by the time they go to middle school.

What we need is for boys to hear this stuff from their fathers and mothers, this is not something that should be forced on people because there is no way to really enforce any of that education. The education itself will be close to worthless like the DARE program and other child training programs that all waste taxpayer dollars to make certain idealists "feel better"
 
Here's an idea, MF:
You seem to be very clued up on the way things "should" be.
You also suggest that "we" should make it so.

Well possibly "we" are busy with other things.
But "you" can implement your plans.
Best of luck to you.
 
BenW said:
And exactly why the fuck should boys be taught to respect women?
This statement is guilty of the same sexism feminism stands against (on paper).

Men commit more violent crime against eachother than they do against women...(source)
So, following the same logic, shouldn't there be some grand campaign urging the teaching of boys to respect men?

How about trying to teach people to respect other people?
I'm pretty perplexed as to why this sort of thing isn't the conclusion people supposedly striving for "equality" reach automatically.
Why do we have "feminism" rather than "anti-sexism"?
Click to expand...

You're completely right. It should be anti-sexism (and that's what a lot of 'feminism' is, depending on what branch of study).

The only reason I brought up sex-oriented education is because rape is proportionally a crime of men against women, but you're completely right. In the grand scheme of things, people should be free from sexual identity requirements, and be free to seek what ever pleases them.
 
Crow said:
Ah, but women are that, to boys.
And no amount of brainwashing is going to change that.
Brainwashing takes time to be effective.
Sex drive takes not nearly as long, and it bypasses all the cerebral guilt/aversion stuff that brainwashing relies on.

But rest easy: men soon do come to realize that women have become far too dangerous to risk messing around with.
Many an upcoming old-maid is going to rue the day feminists began to get their way.
Click to expand...

It's rare that I say this. In fact, I think this is the only time I've said something on this board:

Your statements are so messed up and twisted that I can't in good conscience respond to them.
 
Crow said:
Here's an idea, MF:
You seem to be very clued up on the way things "should" be.
You also suggest that "we" should make it so.

Well possibly "we" are busy with other things.
But "you" can implement your plans.
Best of luck to you.
Click to expand...
So I'm the zealot you spoketh of?
 
arbygil said:
I don't think doing nothing solves the problem, either. They do nothing in other countries, and they give a woman a machete. But she still gets raped. I think education *does* help. I don't have the numbers, but some boys don't have anyone telling them how to treat a woman, and they need to learn it. Otherwise, they'll think rape is "normal." If they don't participate in it, they'll think it's the woman's fault for "dressing" the way she did, or that she was "asking for it" and that's just as faulty as the rapist himself.

Why should women be fearful of all men? Should they be afraid of their fathers, their brothers, their bosses? Not all men are bad and women should feel safe walking down a dark street alone. That is our right to have, and that freedom is taken away when we're taught to expect the worst.

I'm not saying Mary Jane Kaputnik should go around in la-la land downtown and not recognize dangers. But no woman should be made to feel fearful all the time because "the man is out to get her." That's messed up.
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No boy who is sane will ever think rape is "normal" thats crazy. No one blames women for being the victims of rape, we put blue phones on campuses, give women training, and tell boys all through the media and tv that rape is wrong and evil and women are notobjects and yet the rapes still exist

what will solve the problem will be gun training and gun ownership.

Women in other countries with a machete are not women in other countries with guns. I could take a machete away from a woman, I am not so sure I would be fast enough to dodge her bullets though.
 
Billy said:
What we need is for boys to hear this stuff from their fathers and mothers, this is not something that should be forced on people because there is no way to really enforce any of that education.
Click to expand...

Now this I agree with. But part of the problem is our society doesn't have the nuclear family anymore. No one teaches this stuff in the home anymore. :(
 
arbygil said:
Your statements are so messed up and twisted that I can't in good conscience respond to them.
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My my.
That's just a wee bit judgemental.
I am sure your view is the only possible one.
In which case, my humble apologies, for whatever transgression I may be guilty of.
 
arbygil said:
Now this I agree with. But part of the problem is our society doesn't have the nuclear family anymore. No one teaches this stuff in the home anymore. :(
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Men are no longer required in the home with todays setup, I would partially blame that, much of which spring from radical feminism and the alarmist need to drive a wedge between men and women by certain political activists. As such we now play by a different set of rules. It sucks but this is what it is.

Women can teach this stuff to their sons too, my mother is the one who taught me to respect and treat women with softness, my father was always a horrid womanizer.

This stuff doesnt belong in school.
 
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