"Refugees" What is Europe thinking?

Oscillation said:
Caution is essential, but I don't know what you're referring to?
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Sweden has the most rapes per capita now out of any country in the west bar none. When I am able to I will put up my references but am at work so can't really go searching for that kind of content here.
 
SpecialEdition said:
Sweden has the most rapes per capita now out of any country in the west bar none. When I am able to I will put up my references but am at work so can't really go searching for that kind of content here.
Click to expand...

I could try and research the relevant statistics, and there should be plenty and rather easy to find. It has been revealed in a particular finding that the Muslim population consisting of 2% of the Swedish population committed around 77% of rape crimes in the country. In my country, Britain, a town called Rotherham was hit was a government-related scandal whereby a 13 year-long cover-up of a group of Pakistani rape-gangs were grooming and raping girls in the town. The government in-charge during this cover-up (Labour Party) denied responsibility, although members of the local council of the town apologised for what had been allowed to take place. It appeared that the local police force was told to keep their mouth over consistent calls they received from potential victims, stating they were afraid of being called racist and therefore closed the case and the rapes continued for years. All of this did happen, and you can do a quick Google search on the town and find out about the scandal. I'd have to agree with you about Sweden, coming back to the main point about the crisis. We don't seem to be looking into the logistical, cultural and religious aspects and instead our leaders continue to shout "Oh, the humanity!" when the papers revealed shocking images of dead children. They the papers failed to do, was show hordes of young men (no families) rioting in the streets shouting "Allahu ackbar!".

I tried to be a tad moderate in my initial response to the thread, but I prefer to speak my mind. This particular array of mindset that seems to create ridiculous phrases like 'Islamophobia' whenever somebody attempts to criticize a violent group of people that are RAPING PEOPLE, you're called a racist. It's insane. I hope European leaders see how insane this is and start to look at the reports of violence that SpecialEdition has already mentioned. It's a regressive tactic by a regressively left-wing media diatribe. The reason I say 'left-wing' is because I have had the displeasure of reading many articles from The Guardian, most of them either calling anyone right-wing a misogynistic racist, or claiming that capitalism has failed (lol). They really are living in their own little fantasy.
 
SpecialEdition said:
Sweden has the most rapes per capita now out of any country in the west bar none. When I am able to I will put up my references but am at work so can't really go searching for that kind of content here.
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Beware of definitions in the social sciences. A change of definition can hugely inflate or deflate statistical numbers. And the veracity of a conclusion based on such a statistical analysis flounders with it.

(You always have to double check statistical figures, but there is seldom a requirement to be an expert.)
 
ImaginaryBloke said:
Beware of definitions in the social sciences. A change of definition can hugely inflate or deflate statistical numbers. And the veracity of a conclusion based on such a statistical analysis flounders with it.

(You always have to double check statistical figures, but there is seldom a requirement to be an expert.)
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http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-19592372

While that is true and the way crime is reported and recorded doesn't always say what we think it does (this article addresses some of that), the fact remains that the instances of rape are exceptionally high and that number is rising consistently. So even if the data is skewed in some sense, the overall trend is still very bad. This is just one example but if you google Sweden and rape, it's all over the place and the amount information is overwhelming.
 
Flavus Aquila said:
What are the Europeans thinking?
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I have not felt comfortable or safe speaking my mind on anything remotely politically sensitive since '01,
as doing so might appear to challenge or might indicate doubt in the the perspective of things as presented by the media, not on the internet or IRL.

JJJA said:
It appeared that the local police force was told to keep their mouth
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In Germany there is a similar gag order in place for all police.

housel said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyvHdyc-r7w
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That video was made in 2009, how much do you think this influx advances this simulation?
Let us hope that these people take to heart and not reverse any progress made on our ways of life, our values and rights.

Also, it has nothing to do with fertility that we have low birthrates.
 
SpecialEdition said:
Sweden has the most rapes per capita now out of any country in the west bar none. When I am able to I will put up my references but am at work so can't really go searching for that kind of content here.
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Sweden is also home to a mass amount of Nigerian Muslim refugees. Ask some Swedes how they feel about them. ;) Old generation Swedes want to leave their own country.

[video=youtube;dlG75wb7lLw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlG75wb7lLw[/video]

Here you go regarding the rape:

[video=youtube;uhstVDWsetM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhstVDWsetM[/video]
 
Sriracha said:
Sweden is also home to a mass amount of Nigerian Muslim refugees. Ask some Swedes how they feel about them. ;) Old generation Swedes want to leave their own country.

[video=youtube;dlG75wb7lLw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlG75wb7lLw[/video]

Here you go regarding the rape:

[video=youtube;uhstVDWsetM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhstVDWsetM[/video]
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Pat Condell posted on this forum. I never thought I'd live to see it. He's brilliantly rational on such topics.
 
More than half of my friends spread on whole earth. Two of my friends went to US. They both had culture shock. We watch your movies, eat your food, drive your cars and learn your language in our schools.
And yet, culture is so much different..

Now imagine middle east. Things I've seen are beyond something we can understand..
Those refugees, imigrants or how to call them are something that is totally different than we know.
On about 10 males comes one or two women and one or two kids. They have a lot of money and high end mobile phones.
They are not dressed cheaper than I am. None of them has any kind of ID. They went through course of how to act in front of cameras and media.

In one moment, Hungarian police started to spray them with water canons and smoke and in that moment, they started to make shield with their children and women.
When cameras turn on, they push their children in front to make the drama.

One and half year ago, I've lost my 14y old nephue.
We gave everything we have to try to save him.

8 months ago, I've lost my mom.
She got cancer when nephue died.
during her agony, I was with her 24/7.
Now I'm slowly losing my dad. He had heart surgery 8y ago and now those artificial parts are not working any more as they used to and there is nothing anyone can do..
I'm with him 24/7..

This is something that goes through my head while I'm watching a man pushing his kid in front of water canon.
There is no vucabulary to express pain and anger while watching them..

Is here someone from Germany? My German friends say that Germans can't have women cleaning refugees center because they have raped and tortured almost every women that came to clean..

90% of those refugees didn't came here to accept our way of life and our culture, they are bringing their culture and way of life with them.
They are not running to save their lives.. they are running to destroy our lives and they are willing to sacrifice their children for that.

Again, those who are most vunerable will pay the highest price.. their children and women and us.

I'm not so religious and I'm not defending Christianity anyhow but this what is coming under flag of Islam is just wrong..

I supose that most of you will point a finger into me because of this text and give me a lot of thumb downs, but this is the truth
..I'm just the one who tells it as it is
 
What countries are least likely to be 30%+ Muslim in 40 years?

I want to plan my retirement.


It is not so much that I am intolerant of Muslims (even though I am intolerant of many of their views/practices, especially the imposition of the religious laws and attitudes towards women); it is more that I don't want to end up in a situation where my way of life will not be tolerated.
 
SpecialEdition said:
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-19592372

While that is true and the way crime is reported and recorded doesn't always say what we think it does (this article addresses some of that), the fact remains that the instances of rape are exceptionally high and that number is rising consistently. So even if the data is skewed in some sense, the overall trend is still very bad. This is just one example but if you google Sweden and rape, it's all over the place and the amount information is overwhelming.
Click to expand...

"But Klara Selin says the statistics don't represent a major crime epidemic, rather a shift in attitudes. The public debate about this sort of crime in Sweden over the past two decades has had the effect of raising awareness, she says, and encouraging women to go to the police if they have been attacked."​

I agree that it's a high number, and I truly hope that it goes down. But what has this to do with refugees?
 
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This... is Earth. We live on this planet. Every event, all of our history, everyone we know and don't know, have taken place and lived on this single place. From here we hear childrens cry when born, and elderly take their last breath. Life... and death is taken place here, and, for what we know, this is the only place for it.

I don't firstly live in a nation or a culture of that nation, I live here on Earth, and while that might strike you as a extreme point of view, so be it! It's still true though! I have GREAT interest in the well being of all of humankind, and therefor I have almost no interest in the interest of one single nation - like Sweden. If Sweden gets worse for bringing in all the criminals, and all the muslims, and all the human trash you so eagerly speak of... bring it on! Because why would I care if the dust of the Earth is above the carpet... or under it? If we have crimes going on in one corner of the Earth or another, why would that make a differens? Oh, yes, it would only make a differens if I cared so much for my own life and the lifes of my near ones, that I cared more for them than others. Of course we care for our near ones, it's in our DNA, but why would I care more for them then, let's say, the man from Iraq that I never get the chance to say hello to? He might be evil! So be it, so am I! He might rape my sister... but that only tells me he already rapes others sisters, in Iraq. Our Swedish culture might vanish! Why do I care? As long as human value and christian* etics doesn't get comprimised, I will live on this planet. Aah, but see, that is the point of all this fear: what if human value and christian/western etics do get comprimised? Well, then we'll fight... just as we would fight for it even when the fight doesn't take place in our midst but far, far away.

So I will greet them with open arm, because I will not give up on this Earth. And if I die because of it, so be it. In 1000 years we will all have been dead for 900 years anyway. All that we cared for, all that we loved, will be long gone. Life!

I'm young, and probably dumb, but this is the way I see it now. And I sincerly hope that others would too, so that the interest of nations would decrease, and the interest of humankind would increase. Nations might fall.


*Christian etics: I use the term "christian", not as to point out the religious beliefs, but the influence that belief has had over the etics in Europe. You could argue the history of christian influences, but please, try to understand that I'm having a hard time finding a better word, and I'm not trying to find the perfect one. Hopefully you understand what I mean.
 
Oscillation said:
"But Klara Selin says the statistics don't represent a major crime epidemic, rather a shift in attitudes. The public debate about this sort of crime in Sweden over the past two decades has had the effect of raising awareness, she says, and encouraging women to go to the police if they have been attacked."​

I agree that it's a high number, and I truly hope that it goes down. But what has this to do with refugees?
Click to expand...

Sweden accepts a VERY Substantial amount of refugees. Sweden and Germany are among the top countries they go to.
 
Oscillation said:
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This... is Earth. We live on this planet. Every event, all of our history, everyone we know and don't know, have taken place and lived on this single place. From here we hear childrens cry when born, and elderly take their last breath. Life... and death is taken place here, and, for what we know, this is the only place for it.

I don't firstly live in a nation or a culture of that nation, I live here on Earth, and while that might strike you as a extreme point of view, so be it! It's still true though! I have GREAT interest in the well being of all of humankind, and therefor I have almost no interest in the interest of one single nation - like Sweden. If Sweden gets worse for bringing in all the criminals, and all the muslims, and all the human trash you so eagerly speak of... bring it on! Because why would I care if the dust of the Earth is above the carpet... or under it? If we have crimes going on in one corner of the Earth or another, why would that make a differens? Oh, yes, it would only make a differens if I cared so much for my own life and the lifes of my near ones, that I cared more for them than others. Of course we care for our near ones, it's in our DNA, but why would I care more for them then, let's say, the man from Iraq that I never get the chance to say hello to? He might be evil! So be it, so am I! He might rape my sister... but that only tells me he already rapes others sisters, in Iraq. Our Swedish culture might vanish! Why do I care? As long as human value and christian* etics doesn't get comprimised, I will live on this planet. Aah, but see, that is the point of all this fear: what if human value and christian/western etics do get comprimised? Well, then we'll fight... just as we would fight for it even when the fight doesn't take place in our midst but far, far away.

So I will greet them with open arm, because I will not give up on this Earth. And if I die because of it, so be it. In 1000 years we will all have been dead for 900 years anyway. All that we cared for, all that we loved, will be long gone. Life!

I'm young, and probably dumb, but this is the way I see it now. And I sincerly hope that others would too, so that the interest of nations would decrease, and the interest of humankind would increase. Nations might fall.


*Christian etics: I use the term "christian", not as to point out the religious beliefs, but the influence that belief has had over the etics in Europe. You could argue the history of christian influences, but please, try to understand that I'm having a hard time finding a better word, and I'm not trying to find the perfect one. Hopefully you understand what I mean.
Click to expand...

It's nice to be an idealist but there are rules and regulations about moving from one place to another for a reason. If my country accepts the 25k people without ANY screening what so ever (I could care less about their religion or race and more about their actual dire needs or what they can contribute to the country) it will cost us billions. We have an unfavourable economic situation happening in a lot of countries and simply taking on that amount of people who actually do not want to claim asylum could collapse certain economies. It's rational.

Further to that, why aren't the other ultra wealthy Arab Nations taking on all of these people? Why is it only "Christian" nations, as you put it?

I am not saying that people should never migrate. I am not saying everyone should be cast away because we don't want to deal with them. It's inhumane. But I do think we need to screen these people and make sure they're not just here to drain our resources like they are doing in Spain (staying there for free aid just to move on to their country of choice). Beggars can't be choosers unless you're not really a beggar and you just want to take the opportunity to slip in among the masses and use other people's true suffering as a gateway into a different life and abuse the resources given for it.
 
housel said:
More than half of my friends spread on whole earth. Two of my friends went to US. They both had culture shock. We watch your movies, eat your food, drive your cars and learn your language in our schools.
And yet, culture is so much different..

Now imagine middle east. Things I've seen are beyond something we can understand..
Those refugees, imigrants or how to call them are something that is totally different than we know.
On about 10 males comes one or two women and one or two kids. They have a lot of money and high end mobile phones.
They are not dressed cheaper than I am. None of them has any kind of ID. They went through course of how to act in front of cameras and media.

In one moment, Hungarian police started to spray them with water canons and smoke and in that moment, they started to make shield with their children and women.
When cameras turn on, they push their children in front to make the drama.

One and half year ago, I've lost my 14y old nephue.
We gave everything we have to try to save him.

8 months ago, I've lost my mom.
She got cancer when nephue died.
during her agony, I was with her 24/7.
Now I'm slowly losing my dad. He had heart surgery 8y ago and now those artificial parts are not working any more as they used to and there is nothing anyone can do..
I'm with him 24/7..

This is something that goes through my head while I'm watching a man pushing his kid in front of water canon.
There is no vucabulary to express pain and anger while watching them..

Is here someone from Germany? My German friends say that Germans can't have women cleaning refugees center because they have raped and tortured almost every women that came to clean..

90% of those refugees didn't came here to accept our way of life and our culture, they are bringing their culture and way of life with them.
They are not running to save their lives.. they are running to destroy our lives and they are willing to sacrifice their children for that.

Again, those who are most vunerable will pay the highest price.. their children and women and us.

I'm not so religious and I'm not defending Christianity anyhow but this what is coming under flag of Islam is just wrong..

I supose that most of you will point a finger into me because of this text and give me a lot of thumb downs, but this is the truth
..I'm just the one who tells it as it is
Click to expand...

This is right and falls in line with a lot of the information that I have read and many of the videos that I have seen. They are manipulating the media.

All of this started because of one photo of one little boy washed up on shore... As it turns out his own father was operating that ship and he lost his whole family... He killed his own family. But the world just sees one little boy that didn't make it and now they feel a responsibility to save the women and children - those who are being pushed in front to manipulate the media. I have even read cases of people stealing other people's children to do the same! Sickening.
 
I accept those refugees who really are in a real danger and escape from war etc. but not those economical ''refugees''. Also there's a huge risk of ISIS when they come to here even without any official papers like passports. I'm mostly scared because I am a woman. Well, Arabic culture is very drastically different from European culture and they don't respect women as much as Western European men do (sure, there are bad apples in every culture...) but how they treat women just makes me scared that I can't go outside alone anymore when it's darker, so I would get raped etc.

What Europe is thinking? It's actually not thinking at all and that worries me A LOT.
 
SpecialEdition said:
It's nice to be an idealist but there are rules and regulations about moving from one place to another for a reason. If my country accepts the 25k people without ANY screening what so ever (I could care less about their religion or race and more about their actual dire needs or what they can contribute to the country) it will cost us billions. We have an unfavourable economic situation happening in a lot of countries and simply taking on that amount of people who actually do not want to claim asylum could collapse certain economies. It's rational.

Further to that, why aren't the other ultra wealthy Arab Nations taking on all of these people? Why is it only "Christian" nations, as you put it?

I am not saying that people should never migrate. I am not saying everyone should be cast away because we don't want to deal with them. It's inhumane. But I do think we need to screen these people and make sure they're not just here to drain our resources like they are doing in Spain (staying there for free aid just to move on to their country of choice). Beggars can't be choosers unless you're not really a beggar and you just want to take the opportunity to slip in among the masses and use other people's true suffering as a gateway into a different life and abuse the resources given for it.
Click to expand...

I agree, and I believe that our government will realize this. So I'm not too concerned. There will be troubles, but it will eventually go down. I think.
If I'm not mistaken we're about to put up border control, so I guess that's one step towards realism.
 
flower said:
I accept those refugees who really are in a real danger and escape from war etc. but not those economical ''refugees''. Also there's a huge risk of ISIS when they come to here even without any official papers like passports. I'm mostly scared because I am a woman. Well, Arabic culture is very drastically different from European culture and they don't respect women as much as Western European men do (sure, there are bad apples in every culture...) but how they treat women just makes me scared that I can't go outside alone anymore when it's darker, so I would get raped etc.

What Europe is thinking? It's actually not thinking at all and that worries me A LOT.
Click to expand...

I thought that most of the refugees were Christian Syrians? This might have change. I'm trying to find information on this.
So if I'm correct, "arab culture" is inocrrect, right? Or am I mistaken?
 
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