Religion is anti-truth: yes or no

[Animekitty]

This is seriously head deep in bonkersville Animekitty. Are you reading what I wrote? I wrote an entire paragraph on why Jesus had to die.

Jesus's death is only relevant in the context of sin and you have not explained that very well.

Why is sin at the core of our being? What genetics make certain people susceptible to this psychological illness.

 

[Saru Inc]

Ok I've been playing along, but this is the final straw. Go to Sunday school, or even better, go read a Bible. I don't know if you ever have before, but it might be better. Or even better than that:


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=what+is+sin?

 

[Animekitty]

Ok I've been playing along, but this is the final straw. Go to Sunday school, or even better, go read a Bible. I don't know if you ever have before, but it might be better. Or even better than that:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=what+is+sin?

I have been to Sunday school thank you. They mentioned nothing about the genetics of sin.

 

[Saru Inc]

I was making a comment on your incomprehension of the entire idea of religion. I stated what sin was, stated it again,a nd then again a third time. I pm'd you saying I wouldn't be rude. Cancel that out, I'm not about to be stupid instead.

Have fun with balancing out your spiritual liquid measures.

 

[IndigoSensor]

[mods]Ok this thread is starting to get a bit hot. Let's keep the name calling and jabs to ourselves. Carry on[/mods]

 

[Animekitty]

I was making a comment on your incomprehension of the entire idea of religion. I stated what sin was, stated it again,a nd then again a third time. I pm'd you saying I wouldn't be rude. Cancel that out, I'm not about to be stupid instead.

Have fun with balancing out your spiritual liquid measures.

I don think your stupid. But it seems you have no answer to my questions and discount my suggestions.

You have told me that sin is the defiance of Gods will (or something like that). Now I want to know where it comes from. I proposed genetics but you seem to disagree with that. I proposed that its psychological but you seem to disagree with that. I wonder what it is you actually believe?

 

[Saru Inc]

I don think your stupid. But it seems you have no answer to my questions and discount my suggestions.

You have told me that sin is the defiance of Gods will (or something like that). Now I want to know where it comes from. I proposed genetics but you seem to disagree with that. I proposed that its psychological but you seem to disagree with that. I wonder what it is you actually believe?

I stated it is the result of the direct defiance of the laws of God, and the laws of the government. I stated right off the bat it wasn't psychological, nor genetic, nor physical. I want to say I'm perplexed why you created all those inane tangents, but I know why. I've said what I believe in every singly post I've posted, including this one. What else is there to ponder?

 

[Animekitty]

I stated it is the result of the direct defiance of the laws of God, and the laws of the government. I stated right off the bat it wasn't psychological, nor genetic, nor physical. I want to say I'm perplexed why you created all those inane tangents, but I know why. I've said what I believe in every singly post I've posted, including this one. What else is there to ponder?

It would sadden me if you thought I was damned to hell for my beliefs and not for what was in my heart. Do I deserve hell for my agnosticism? Is the guilt I felt of being a bad example of a Christian justified because I could not live up to the standards of what others said a good Christian should be like? How can I say my life has value when other say it is worthless, that I am a bad person not because I hate or hurt anyone but because my beliefs are not their beliefs? Its a terrible feeling looking into their eyes, seeing them judge you like your the one who is broken, evil and wrong. Should I accept that they do this to me. Making me feel like I'm the worthless one? I don't need that. I don't need other to tell me I'm a worthless human being. It is not true. If its their belief system that makes them judge me then I want no part of it. I don't want others to think that I look down on them for being who they are because of a false truth.

 

[Saru Inc]

Well, it sounds like you've had bad experiences with Christians who judged you, and for that I apologize for them. (And I apologize for the harsh words earlier, as nerdy as it sounds I just died on this comp game and raged on here :| ) But here is what the Bible says, which is the final authority on the subject. The only way to heaven is through Jesus, and a personal relationship with him. You must acknowledge him as God, and ask for forgiveness for your sins. I will be honest, I don't like that, I know many many rotten horrible awful Christians, who will preach the gospel, and stab people behind the back. But here's why being a good person doesn't matter: You've still sinned, and you cannot be in heaven if you have sin in you. Again, you can spend your whole like being philanthropic and helping Humanity 24/7, but if you still have sin in your, even from stealing a cookie from the cookie jar, you cannot go to heaven. Only Jesus can remove the sin, and he did so when he died.

 

[Barnabas]

How do we know what God wants us to do? If God wants people to live in a certain way then it would be pertinent to know who is the real God. Most of the people I know act in such a way as for me to think that I they believe in the wrong God. God would not send a person to hell if they were a good person so anyone who says otherwise believes in the wrong God.

I'm going to stress that the words "good person", have only described one person to walk the earth.

We are all broken, we all have our failures and our weakness. So much so that there are no good people, none is righteous not one(save for the Christian[which is a completely different theological discussion]).

So in essence you will find no good people in Hell, it's something we dome ourselves to, it's the choice(s) you and I make that condemn us.

As for knowing what God wants us to do. If your going at this from the Christian perspective there are pretty solid commands, go into all the world and making disciples of nations.

If your looking for what God wants you specifically to do to make disciples of all nations, pray


As for Christians simply not being Christians, it is a unfortunate fact of reality that we are broken, we either slip up or run as fast as we can from God while calling out his name the whole way.

No point just curious as to how people would respond. I once asked my aunt if McDonalds would be in heaven. I like McDonalds so it would disappoint me if it was not there. She thought it was an irreverent question having nothing to do with Christianity. Apparently she along with most people don't think creativity and reasoning is an important part of being human.

Barnabas do you think heaven would be different for an INFJ than for an ENFJ? Will heaven be different for other MBTI personality types? Or will individuality be stomped out because its not what God wants heaven to be like?

Ah... so the questions aren't of a serious nature, more so just curious, am I correct? Also the McDonalds question does have nothing to with Christianity, not be offensive, it's just that you won't find many churches who ave fast food as a part of their core doctrine. You really shouldn't look at this as if it tells you that people aren't creative or reasonable.


As for heaven being different for the individual, I'd have to say no. I don't think heaven will be uniquely tailored to make you or certain people happy.

What I do know is that Heaven is something so great that you can't possibly fathom it's magnificence, so great that the happiest day of your life on earth will be as it was but bump in the road of life. It is something that I can't possibly do justice with my words.


I do believe however different people will experience Heaven differently.




Also I have no clue if McDonalds will be in heaven, though personally I doubt it. I'm holding out for something better.

 

[Barnabas]

It would sadden me if you thought I was damned to hell for my beliefs and not for what was in my heart. Do I deserve hell for my agnosticism? Is the guilt I felt of being a bad example of a Christian justified because I could not live up to the standards of what others said a good Christian should be like? How can I say my life has value when other say it is worthless, that I am a bad person not because I hate or hurt anyone but because my beliefs are not their beliefs? Its a terrible feeling looking into their eyes, seeing them judge you like your the one who is broken, evil and wrong. Should I accept that they do this to me. Making me feel like I'm the worthless one? I don't need that. I don't need other to tell me I'm a worthless human being. It is not true. If its their belief system that makes them judge me then I want no part of it. I don't want others to think that I look down on them for being who they are because of a false truth.

Do you know why your a bad person?

 

[bamf]

McDonalds will most definitely be in hell. THEY ARE SO SLOW!

 

[Animekitty]

I'm going to stress that the words "good person", have only described one person to walk the earth.

Because his spirit was not tainted by the seed of Adam Correct? Jesus got his Y chromosome from his heavenly father.

We are all broken, we all have our failures and our weakness. So much so that there are no good people, none is righteous not one(save for the Christian[which is a completely different theological discussion]).

Christians believe that they are different than non-Christians. I find this not surprising. They have a unique belief that might be true.

So in essence you will find no good people in Hell, it's something we dome ourselves to, it's the choice(s) you and I make that condemn us.

And that choice is faith/trust in God/Jesus. Don't see why that cant be possible.

As for knowing what God wants us to do. If your going at this from the Christian perspective there are pretty solid commands, go into all the world and making disciples of nations. If your looking for what God wants you specifically to do to make disciples of all nations, pray

If Christianity is true then I should do that.

As for Christians simply not being Christians, it is a unfortunate fact of reality that we are broken, we either slip up or run as fast as we can from God while calling out his name the whole way.

And that is what I do not wish to do.

Ah... so the questions aren't of a serious nature, more so just curious, am I correct? Also the McDonalds question does have nothing to with Christianity, not be offensive, it's just that you won't find many churches who ave fast food as a part of their core doctrine. You really shouldn't look at this as if it tells you that people aren't creative or reasonable.

When I mention the topic not that many take it seriously.

As for heaven being different for the individual, I'd have to say no. I don't think heaven will be uniquely tailored to make you or certain people happy.

Maybe.

What I do know is that Heaven is something so great that you can't possibly fathom it's magnificence, so great that the happiest day of your life on earth will be as it was but bump in the road of life. It is something that I can't possibly do justice with my words.

I hope you get there.

I do believe however different people will experience Heaven differently.

Thats obvious.

Also I have no clue if McDonalds will be in heaven, though personally I doubt it. I'm holding out for something better.

If thats what you want.

 

[Animekitty]

Do you know why your a bad person?

Because other people tell me so. Makes me depressed.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

I don't think religion is, by its nature, anti-truth, though people often act that way in its name. Religion propably originated as a way of trying to comprehend the world without the means to do so: it fundamentally wants to answer the question of "why". In that sense it is very much pro-truth. But as a tool for comprehending the natural world, it is now obsolete. As a source of spirituality it is not, but neither is it nescessary: one could (and I would) even argue that it is somewhat corrupt for that purpose, for the most part. Intelligent people can filter the filth off religion, keeping the good parts, and I have no problem against that. But they do have the capacity to find meaning elsewhere.


I have the time, the leisure, the ability and the disposition to pursue philosophical studies. And I have pursued them. I believe myself to be what you would call a moral person, a good person. I don't act against my nature. I look around me with an open mind.

Still, I am something you could describe as an atheist or a pantheist (though I don't like to think of it that way: art and curiosity are my religion). I don't believe in sin. I don't believe Jesus is a messiah. I don't believe in any god who is less than the universe.

Yet I am happy. I exist in harmony with the world, myself and the people around me. There is no hole, no void in my soul.

Am I, in your opinion, in error? Acting against God and by extension my own nature? Am I damned to hell? Do I deserve hell?

@Morpheus;

I think the point of most Theistic belief is that God is far more than the universe - so much so, that the universe, compared to God is closer to being as nothing than it is close to being like God.

Morals is one area, which is open to philosophical enquiry, and a number of people can find morals, without reference to the commandments of God. However, the core of revelation is about three things:

1. The life/essence/existence of God is infinite - which is fundamentally beyond/above/different from anything in the universe - or even the universe itself.

2. For no necessity on our part, or on God's part, but as a completely spontaneous and .... essentially loving act, God invites humans to share/participate in His own internal/eternal/infinite life.

3. He gives the means by which we, who are such utterly different beings to him, are able to begin to participate in a life, which is foreign to us: His own internal life.


Just as in the formation of a friendship, it is necessary to come to know each other - faith; like each other - charity; and do things in common, which are not opposed to each other - hope.

 

[Morpheus]

Au contraire, (is that how it spelled? Never said it on the webs before.) To assume because a negative of proof, aka a lack of proof assumes the opposite, is merely the argument from ignorance fallacy. Stating that because you cannot prove it, it must exist. Because you cannot provide proof that God exists, we will assume do to a lack of proof on your side, our side is true. Which isn't really true at all, your side could be just as wrong as our side. There may be... a third... side. Like a God/World Avatar mindfuck?

The opposite of god is not no-god, just like the opposite of good is not neutral. No-god is the lack of a god. The opposite of god would be some sort of an anti-god, I think.

@Morpheus;

I think the point of most Theistic belief is that God is far more than the universe - so much so, that the universe, compared to God is closer to being as nothing than it is close to being like God.

Morals is one area, which is open to philosophical enquiry, and a number of people can find morals, without reference to the commandments of God. However, the core of revelation is about three things:

1. The life/essence/existence of God is infinite - which is fundamentally beyond/above/different from anything in the universe - or even the universe itself.

2. For no necessity on our part, or on God's part, but as a completely spontaneous and .... essentially loving act, God invites humans to share/participate in His own internal/eternal/infinite life.

3. He gives the means by which we, who are such utterly different beings to him, are able to begin to participate in a life, which is foreign to us: His own internal life.


Just as in the formation of a friendship, it is necessary to come to know each other - faith; like each other - charity; and do things in common, which are not opposed to each other - hope.

God can not be more than the universe, for universe is, literally, everything. Is evil part of god, is suffering, is godlessness? If not, then god is less than the universe. If they are part of god, then it ceases to be god, becoming universe. Maybe it's just semantic difference, I don't know.

 

[Saru Inc]

I'm pretty sure God doesn't go by your (or our) definition of the universe.

The main problem I see is people giving God human faults and characteristics, God doesn't have a Hubris.

 

[Morpheus]

I'm pretty sure God doesn't go by your (or our) definition of the universe.

The main problem I see is people giving God human faults and characteristics, God doesn't have a Hubris.

I define universe as everything that is. How do you avoid that definition? If god is less than all, he is not god. If he is more than all, then he (or parts of him) doesn't exist. Or is he somehow above existence, above conceptualizing? If so, why even bother with him: it's impossible and ultimately irrelevant.

 

[basic]

Religion is truth to some. Untrue to others. Truth is relative because it is one's own interpretation of stimuli.

Is there such a thing as truth if there is nobody to interpret stimuli?

 

[NeverAmI]

http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=truth

• S: (n) truth (a fact that has been verified) "at last he knew the truth"; "the truth is that he didn't want to do it"

From an epistemological point of view, belief is open to interpretation, truth is not.