Religion is anti-truth: yes or no

[Saru Inc]

I define universe as everything that is. How do you avoid that definition? If god is less than all, he is not god. If he is more than all, then he (or parts of him) doesn't exist. Or is he somehow above existence, above conceptualizing? If so, why even bother with him: it's impossible and ultimately irrelevant.

Nothing in that post makes sense :| I'm saying I could define a frog as a mammal that chases down reindeer in Africa. You believing differenty from God isn't going to change the way God is. He created the Universe, so... Naturally he's bigger.

 

[Morpheus]

Nothing in that post makes sense :| I'm saying I could define a frog as a mammal that chases down reindeer in Africa. You believing differenty from God isn't going to change the way God is. He created the Universe, so... Naturally he's bigger.

Webster's defines universe as "the totality of all the things that exist"
Cambridge defines universe as "everything that exists"

I don't know why my point makes no sense.

 

[DefectiveCreative]

[MENTION=436]Morpheus[/MENTION]

As I understand it, the Universe is considered to be everything that exists in a physical sense. If God exists, then by most definitions there is - at the very least - an element of him/her/it that is non-physical, and would therefore be capable of existing separately from the Universe.

 

[Nixie]

I'm pretty sure God doesn't go by your (or our) definition of the universe.

The main problem I see is people giving God human faults and characteristics, God doesn't have a Hubris.

The main problem I see is that people believe they can understand the Creator and then determine that their beliefs and ideas are more correct than others.

Truth resides in the individual mind and soul. I agree with Ian that Religion is a man made construct. Truth is a perception and thus defined by the mindset, beliefs, upbringing, experiences and all the other mish mash that makes up humans. Thus, truth is constantly being redefined. My understanding of my spiritual nature is not the same as it was when I was 12 or when I was 21.

 

[freeeekyyy]

The main problem I see is that people believe they can understand the Creator and then determine that their beliefs and ideas are more correct than others.

Truth resides in the individual mind and soul. I agree with Ian that Religion is a man made construct. Truth is a perception and thus defined by the mindset, beliefs, upbringing, experiences and all the other mish mash that makes up humans. Thus, truth is constantly being redefined. My understanding of my spiritual nature is not the same as it was when I was 12 or when I was 21.

Oh, religion certainly is a man-made construct. But God and religion are not synonyms.

 

[Nixie]

Oh, religion certainly is a man-made construct. But God and religion are not synonyms.

I wasn't saying they were. My point was about truth. Truth, like the Creator, is universal but based on perception. Perception is based within the individual. All our efforts as social creatures are attempts to impart/understand perceptions (both ours and others).

The difficulty is that our understanding of truth (or the Creator) is basically something that can never be 100% understood by someone else. So is religion truth? Yes and No. Individuals develop perceptions or an understanding of the truth about the Creator but can never 100% impart that truth to someone else or understand with complete accuracy someone else's truth about the Creator.

Additionally, language itself is based on perception. Our communication as a species is based on perception. We tend to overlook the fact that many times we operate on assumptions and not acutals when it comes to communcation.

 

[Jack]

So your mom is not a "Real Christian" and you are?

What exactly do you think sin is?
Where does it reside inside of you?
Could Jesus have gotten rid of your "sin" without dying in the same way doctors can remove tumors without dying for their patient?
Where is heaven? Is it in a different galaxy or perhaps a different dimension? How does your soul leave your body to get there?

These are but a few question I had to ask myself when I thought I was Christian and I still cant figure them out otherwise I would still believe in Christianity. I cant be a "Real Christian" until I know what "Real Christianity" is and for that I need answers.

So lets say for the sake of argument that no one has an answer to these questions. Why does a few people honestly admitting they may not know everything mean what they believe is "anti-truth"?

 

[Barnabas]

Because his spirit was not tainted by the seed of Adam Correct? Jesus got his Y chromosome from his heavenly father.

No, It has nothing to do with the Sin of Adam. Man isn't born sinful, it seems he simply becomes so.

Jesus was the only individual to never sin, the only individual to never commit a wrong.

Christians believe that they are different than non-Christians. I find this not surprising. They have a unique belief that might be true.

And that choice is faith/trust in God/Jesus. Don't see why that cant be possible.

If Christianity is true then I should do that.

I would argue that it it most definitely is.

And that is what I do not wish to do.

To flee from God or to fall?

When I mention the topic not that many take it seriously.

could you please rephrase this, I don't understand what your saying.

Maybe.

Maybe, but if were going on the heaven that is found in the Bible then it's a definitely.

Thats obvious.

obviously

If thats what you want.

Ah.... see here a big point, heaven has nothing to do with what I want. It's not about me.

Because other people tell me so. Makes me depressed.

Your bad because people tell you so? Do you act wrongfully because you have been told you are wrong?

 

[Jack]

@Morph

As wonderful and sagealicous as this may sound,

I define universe as everything that is. How do you avoid that definition? If god is less than all, he is not god. If he is more than all, then he (or parts of him) doesn't exist. Or is he somehow above existence, above conceptualizing? If so, why even bother with him: it's impossible and ultimately irrelevant.

all that's really been proposed is 1 the universe is all that exists, then 2 if God isn't all the universe, then he isn't God. If one does not accept these premises to begin with, there isn't really an argument.

 

[freeeekyyy]

I wasn't saying they were. My point was about truth. Truth, like the Creator, is universal but based on perception. Perception is based within the individual. All our efforts as social creatures are attempts to impart/understand perceptions (both ours and others).

The difficulty is that our understanding of truth (or the Creator) is basically something that can never be 100% understood by someone else. So is religion truth? Yes and No. Individuals develop perceptions or an understanding of the truth about the Creator but can never 100% impart that truth to someone else or understand with complete accuracy someone else's truth about the Creator.

Additionally, language itself is based on perception. Our communication as a species is based on perception. We tend to overlook the fact that many times we operate on assumptions and not acutals when it comes to communcation.

I think it's correct that people have different perceptions of truth. But truth is still itself, as it is, regardless of what one thinks it is. Human understanding is limited, and can thus never see the whole truth, but this does not make it cease to exist.

It's like the riddle about the tree in the forest. I believe, whether one hears it or not, the tree still makes a sound. It does not need to be observed for it to be. In the same way, a person's beliefs about God have no impact on His existence. Which is why, in all aspects, people seek the truth, because it is more than what they see. If that were not the case, there would be no point in attempting to extend one's perception beyond what it already is.

 

[Animekitty]

So lets say for the sake of argument that no one has an answer to these questions. Why does a few people honestly admitting they may not know everything mean what they believe is "anti-truth"?

I think people take what they believe for granted most of the time. I read a book called the bible and say "that might be true" others read the bible and say "that is the absolute truth". Anti-truth happens when some one is unaware of their limitations. This leads to thinking you are always right and therefore you stop looking for alternatives. As an agnostic I can think any thought I want to. I can always admit I might be wrong and when I do then its easer to let go of false beliefs. I can be libertarian about where I stand in regards to truth.

Recently I saw a youtube video that says when a Christian prays because of their strong faith, their pineal gland opens up and the DMT released creates mystical experiences that they think is God. Buddhist do the same thing well meditating and yet they do not attribute it to God. I would be very excited to experience such an event in my life. Perhaps it would allow me to know the true nature of reality itself and see what God sees.

 

[Animekitty]

Your bad because people tell you so? Do you act wrongfully because you have been told you are wrong?

I do what I think is the right thing to do. My self control is very strong otherwise I would lash out at those that hurt my feelings. I let others think what they want of me but I honestly tell them that I think they are wrong. If I feel really bad or cant leave the situation I just wither inside and don't respond to anything they say.

 

[Archon]

Religion is bullshit. Have a good day...all the ones that have fallen for the greatest scam in the history of mankind.

 

[freeeekyyy]

Religion is bullshit. Have a good day...all the ones that have fallen for the greatest scam in the history of mankind.

Good to know. Not changing anything though.

 

[Jack]

Recently I saw a youtube video that says when a Christian prays because of their strong faith, their pineal gland opens up and the DMT released creates mystical experiences that they think is God.

That probably doesn't happen to me... I never get any cool feelings or see anything... but what does that have to do with this?

Anti-truth happens when some one is unaware of their limitations. This leads to thinking you are always right and therefore you stop looking for alternatives. As an agnostic I can think any thought I want to. I can always admit I might be wrong and when I do then its easer to let go of false beliefs. I can be libertarian about where I stand in regards to truth.

That bolded part happens to many agnostics and atheists as well. Anyone can be libertarian about the truth, and anyone can be pig-headed. It has nothing to do with what your beliefs actually are. As a Christian, I have always thought any thought I wanted to, I don't restrict my mind, why would I even consider doing that?

 

[Saru Inc]

I think people take what they believe for granted most of the time. I read a book called the bible and say "that might be true" others read the bible and say "that is the absolute truth". Anti-truth happens when some one is unaware of their limitations. This leads to thinking you are always right and therefore you stop looking for alternatives. As an agnostic I can think any thought I want to. I can always admit I might be wrong and when I do then its easer to let go of false beliefs. I can be libertarian about where I stand in regards to truth.

Recently I saw a youtube video that says when a Christian prays because of their strong faith, their pineal gland opens up and the DMT released creates mystical experiences that they think is God. Buddhist do the same thing well meditating and yet they do not attribute it to God. I would be very excited to experience such an event in my life. Perhaps it would allow me to know the true nature of reality itself and see what God sees.

I'd like to see a link for that DMT statement. And so you're saying you're agnostic because you don't want to be controlled? This is a theme I see in most of your arguments, and here's the thing, Christianity isn't controlling. Well, in my point of view. You can't kill, and you're not supposed to have abortions, or sleep in on Sundays. But besides that, most of the CHristian laws are one that everyone else follows. (example: don't steal, cheat, lie, bitch, snitch, hit, have greed etc.) The two big exceptions are abortion, and evolution/big bang.

Religion is bullshit. Have a good day...all the ones that have fallen for the greatest scam in the history of mankind.

Thanks for the contribution

That probably doesn't happen to me... I never get any cool feelings or see anything... but what does that have to do with this?

That bolded part happens to many agnostics and atheists as well. Anyone can be libertarian about the truth, and anyone can be pig-headed. It has nothing to do with what your beliefs actually are. As a Christian, I have always thought any thought I wanted to, I don't restrict my mind, why would I even consider doing that?

I love you. yes homo.

 

[IndigoSensor]

I'd like to see a link for that DMT statement. And so you're saying you're agnostic because you don't want to be controlled?

Just because it doesn't feel controling/restrictive for you, does not mean it is going to feel the same way for another person. Religion and spirituality is highly subjective and this is why there are so many diverse belief systems the world over.

I do not know the study on DMT myself. However there is a strong corralation between the use of DMT (dimethyltryptamine) and "mystical experiences", as well as for other tryptamine halluciniogens. DMT does happen to be one of these chemicals that the body produces and it can and does cause those sorts of feelings at high levels. I speek of this as a chemistry major.

 

[Animekitty]

That probably doesn't happen to me... I never get any cool feelings or see anything... but what does that have to do with this?

If you don't experience Gods existence then why pray to him or believe in him?

That bolded part happens to many agnostics and atheists as well. Anyone can be libertarian about the truth, and anyone can be pig-headed. It has nothing to do with what your beliefs actually are. As a Christian, I have always thought any thought I wanted to, I don't restrict my mind, why would I even consider doing that?

Then you should understand why I mentioned DMT. I was hoping it might spark your interest and we could have a deeper discussion.

 

[Animekitty]

I'd like to see a link for that DMT statement. And so you're saying you're agnostic because you don't want to be controlled? This is a theme I see in most of your arguments, and here's the thing, Christianity isn't controlling. Well, in my point of view. You can't kill, and you're not supposed to have abortions, or sleep in on Sundays. But besides that, most of the CHristian laws are one that everyone else follows. (example: don't steal, cheat, lie, bitch, snitch, hit, have greed etc.) The two big exceptions are abortion, and evolution/big bang.

For me Christianity is controlling because everyone keeps telling me that I'm doing it wrong.

I think that with practice the pineal gland can be activated by deep prayer or Buddhist meditation. I don't know for sure but its defiantly a possibility. How else could you explain the spiritual experiences of both.

 

[Saru Inc]

Just because it doesn't feel controling/restrictive for you, does not mean it is going to feel the same way for another person. Religion and spirituality is highly subjective and this is why there are so many diverse belief systems the world over.

I do not know the study on DMT myself. However there is a strong corralation between the use of DMT (dimethyltryptamine) and "mystical experiences", as well as for other tryptamine halluciniogens. DMT does happen to be one of these chemicals that the body produces and it can and does cause those sorts of feelings at high levels. I speek of this as a chemistry major.

I understand

For me Christianity is controlling because everyone keeps telling me that I'm doing it wrong.

I think that with practice the pineal gland can be activated by deep prayer or Buddhist meditation. I don't know for sure but its defiantly a possibility. How else could you explain the spiritual experiences of both.

What if it's telling you you are doing it wrong because you are?