Say something nice about people you disagree with politically

Flavus Aquila said:
What people do doesn't make me think less of them. I would have no issues with being friends with St Francis of Assisi, Stalin, Hitler, a Mass Murderer, a kindly homemaker, Trump, Sanders, etc.

What can get in the way of being able to dialogue is that both deliberate apathy and deliberate hypocrisy make me angry... I get an ambivalent like/hate attitude: I like the person, but hate the way they engage.
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I guess everyone's just different. For me, what you do is a huge part of who you are. It matters, a lot. Depending on what they do, it will make me think less of them. By a lot. Raping someone will make me think less of you. Strangling a child will make me think less of you. Animal cruelty will make me think less of you. The mass extermination of millions of people and unspeakable levels of cruelty inflicted under your belt will make me think less of you. I would have issues being your friend in that case. I would have issues with you being anything other than someone who needs to be taken out as quickly as possible in that instance.

I can't imagine knowing that someone has, for example, raped and strangled a child, not making me think less of them. I'm fine with that. I wouldn't want to be any other way. If they raped and strangled a child, but could also play the piano nicely, I could still hey "well hey, that person plays the piano nicely." I'm fine with that. If they're good at math, or adept at public speaking, no problem with saying that either. I can recognize the positives even when I know of the negatives. Knowing that they're a rapist won't change that they're a good pianist. I'm still going to think less of them though, because actions do matter.
 
sprinkles said:
deep spiritual bonding
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sprinkles said:
I understand. I think what you consider to be friendship is different from what I consider to be friendship.

I think some people collect other people, and view them externally, and call them friends because they are entertaining in some way. For other people that is not friendship. To those people that would be like being friends with a chair because it is comfortable, or because it looks nice.

For some people friendship is a deep spiritual bonding that is not easy to come by. It's not just being entertained at head level by what is visible on the outside.
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Admittedly, I don't "feel" connected to my friends, nevertheless, they are a distinct category. Friends are people, whose welfare, aspirations, safety, good repute, etc. matter to me. They are people I trust and reserve my criticism from, and whom I'd help if they wanted it, even at inconvenience to me. I'm not indifferent to their happiness... and I'll gladly have nothing to do with them, if that can help them find a better path in life.
 
Flavus Aquila said:
Admittedly, I don't "feel" connected to my friends, nevertheless, they are a distinct category. Friends are people, whose welfare, aspirations, safety, good repute, etc. matter to me. They are people I trust and reserve my criticism from, and whom I'd help if they wanted it, even at inconvenience to me. I'm not indifferent to their happiness... and I'll gladly have nothing to do with them, if that can help them find a better path in life.
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I've done all that for people that I don't even necessarily like....
 
hush said:
I guess everyone's just different. For me, what you do is a huge part of who you are. It matters, a lot. Depending on what they do, it will make me think less of them. By a lot. Raping someone will make me think less of you. Strangling a child will make me think less of you. Animal cruelty will make me think less of you. The mass extermination of millions of people and unspeakable levels of cruelty inflicted under your belt will make me think less of you. I would have issues being your friend in that case. I would have issues with you being anything other than someone who needs to be taken out as quickly as possible in that instance.

I can't imagine knowing that someone has, for example, raped and strangled a child, not making me think less of them. I'm fine with that. I wouldn't want to be any other way. If they raped and strangled a child, but could also play the piano nicely, I could still hey "well hey, that person plays the piano nicely." I'm fine with that. If they're good at math, or adept at public speaking, no problem with saying that either. I can recognize the positives even when I know of the negatives. Knowing that they're a rapist won't change that they're a good pianist. I'm still going to think less of them though, because actions do matter.
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I understand what you mean... but somehow knowing that everyone is capable of doing anything, no matter how repugnant makes it seem like the ones that actually do terrible things aren't different from everyone else... but their actions are. It doesn't make a difference that I'm not attracted to children: I wasn't molested as a child, so that's the only reason (fate/chance/fortune) that they are a pedophile and I am not. It's true that bad actions deserve condemnation and bad punishment... but for the most part it isn't my job to punish, or condemn people.

Edit: Sometimes it is my responsibility to STOP people doing bad things, either by reporting or intervening, if no one official is available.
 
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Without the story that I have in my head and my opinion about their political persuasion I see people just like myself standing in front of me. Part of the sea of humanity. Just like me.
 
Flavus Aquila said:
I understand what you mean... but somehow knowing that everyone is capable of doing anything, no matter how repugnant makes it seem like the ones that actually do terrible things aren't different from everyone else... but their actions are. It doesn't make a difference that I'm not attracted to children: I wasn't molested as a child, so that's the only reason (fate/chance/fortune) that they are a pedophile and I am not. It's true that bad actions deserve condemnation and bad punishment... but for the most part it isn't my job to punish, or condemn people.

Edit: Sometimes it is my responsibility to STOP people doing bad things, either by reporting or intervening, if no one official is available.
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They are different, because they still chose to do what they did. You can be a pedophile, know it's wrong, and not act on your impulses. You can have an impulse to harm someone, but choose not to do it. I'm going to think less of a rapist, because they could have chosen not to violate another human being, but they chose to do so, anyway. What you choose to do is part of who you are. We are human, so we are flawed, and we slip up sometimes, but there are certain things, certain choices, that are not forgivable. Being a pedophile is one thing. Choosing to do what is right, is another. It's a bit too fatalistic to attribute too much to fate or fortune. In short, we all share a level of connection and sameness in our ability to choose, but what we choose defines us.

Punishment is a whole other matter... I have plenty of thoughts on that, such as being uneasy with the premise that the only thing stopping someone from doing something is due to the threat of punishment. In an ideal world, someone wouldn't murder someone, because it is not the right thing to do, regardless of whether there were a punishment waiting for them. However, this is not an ideal world. We spend more time punishing and locking people away, than we do trying to heal, or trying to get at the root of a problem. But that's another discussion.
 
I can't say what I'd say to someone whom I disliked politically, but I could never say something nice to a person that hated dogs.

That is all.
 
ezra said:
I don't know if you guys noticed, but there was an election in November where one candidate won and another lost. Animosity between the sides is at an all time high. So much fun to be on Twitter right now. People threatening each other, making death threats...

Here's a challenge: say something nice about the people you disagree with politically. Come on.
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Hm, you managed to create a thread in the politics sub-forum which had some actual intelligent discussion and civil exchange of ideas.

WITCH!

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I do not understand why universal heath care is not paid for by taxes, I can not understand how it is good for small businesses, which employ 120 million Americans and account for 65% of new jobs, to be burdened with attempting to insure their staff. Would not leveling the playing field increase business activity and create more jobs?
 
Flavus Aquila said:
I'm getting the impression that INFJs really suck at being able to say something genuinely nice about someone they disagree with.

Blinded by hate much?
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I have to admit it's been difficult for me to find something genuinely nice to say generally about the collective group of people I disagree with politically but I could easily say nice things about individuals I disagree with politically.
 
I have two ENFP friends. Both are admirable gentlemen who I highly respect. One changed his political views on his own over the course of two years and now we're on the same page. The other is a bipolar opposite of myself. Which is fine. He truly believes in his cause and we do differ greatly. But I still buy him coffee every time he comes home for a visit.

I find it ironic that I call his old home my current home. When he chose to leave for university and I chose to come here and settle down. For now at least. LOL
 
I remembered this thread, and figured it was a bit pertinent here.

https://www.infjs.com/threads/is-political-difference-a-deal-breaker.32745/

My thoughts there.

hush said:
I've actually seemed to become increasingly weary over views that are too stubbornly focused on one extreme, without allowing any consideration for different beliefs. Pretty much, just think critically, don't be overly biased, accept that you and your views aren't infallible, and don't get lost in vilifying opposing views so much so that it makes attempting to have any sort of reasonable discussion nearly impossible.
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I realized I hadn't really responded to this thread saying something nice to someone with political views different from mine, and then also realized it was because it felt a bit silly. Political beliefs aren't black and white, and I've said nice things, from the heart, to people with different views from mine all the time. If political difference isn't a deal-breaker for me in regards to being able to be in a relationship with someone, it would be extremely odd to not be able to say nice things about someone you're in a relationship, lol. "Well, he's a complete asshole and I can't say one nice thing about him, but here we are!" So basically, as long as you're not a complete asshole, it should be pretty easy to find something nice to say.

I think politics just tends to heat people up, especially with the political atmosphere as it is right now. So many people at each other's throats and placing so much weight on politics, but people are so much more than their political views. This kind of makes me appreciate the premise of ezra's OP more, because I know these are hard times right now, to be able to look past politics. We get blinded by our biases, often without even realizing it.
 
hush said:
I remembered this thread, and figured it was a bit pertinent here.

https://www.infjs.com/threads/is-political-difference-a-deal-breaker.32745/

My thoughts there.



I realized I hadn't really responded to this thread saying something nice to someone with political views different from mine, and then also realized it was because it felt a bit silly. Political beliefs aren't black and white, and I've said nice things, from the heart, to people with different views from mine all the time. If political difference isn't a deal-breaker for me in regards to being able to be in a relationship with someone, it would be extremely odd to not be able to say nice things about someone you're in a relationship, lol. "Well, he's a complete asshole and I can't say one nice thing about him, but here we are!" So basically, as long as you're not a complete asshole, it should be pretty easy to find something nice to say.

I think politics just tends to heat people up, especially with the political atmosphere as it is right now. So many people at each other's throats and placing so much weight on politics, but people are so much more than their political views. This kind of makes me appreciate the premise of ezra's OP more, because I know these are hard times right now, to be able to look past politics. We get blinded by our biases, often without even realizing it.
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Since your ideology of acceptance, tolerance, and rational thought is opposite to mine, I'll say something nice about you.

You would make a competent evil overlord.
 
hush said:
That's the most beautiful thing you've said to me since you called me the Hitler of the forum. :m033:

*sniffles* Thank you, 'Cobi.

And you, dear sir, would make a very competent underling. c:
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I appreciate that. I would build you only the finest of death rays.
 
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