Some member's odd habit of posting right wing propaganda and his nonstop cultivation of it.

Pin said:
Tradesmen work in the service sector. The higher the demand for these jobs, the more money they'll make.

What did these millions of college students major in? There's work out for them to do if they study the right thing.
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The real tragedy with the jobs market right now is that popular culture would have the everyman ashamed for doing physical labor. There are plenty of positions for teamsters, laborers, mechanics and the like that just won't be filled because millennials consider working those kinds of jobs as some kind of admission of failure. So everyone either has to go to college or they try to become a pop star or a star athlete. Meanwhile businesses are desperate to fill these kinds of positions before their current workforce retires. Leading to some lucrative opportunities if you're willing to get your hands dirty.
 
Pin said:
Tradesmen work in the service sector. The higher the demand for these jobs, the more money they'll make.

What did these millions of college students major in? There's work out for them to do if they study the right thing.
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When I was plumbing in Washington DC I was routinely looked down upon by those I serviced. Which I thought was rather ironic. Now the Chinese fixtures and pipe are total garbage. The USA govt spells it out for you that no Chinese plumbing fixtures or pipes can be used. Now why is that. It's supposed to be as good as the stuff made here. There is no reason not to have most things made here to keep our people busy and thriving. I think of this country as we all have a job and here we have the freedom to create the work we like to do. By letting corporate interests take over we lose the ability to do things for ourselves. Which puts us at their mercy. I don't know what those kids majored in. I just know that someone made them a loan. And I think making the loan was more important than giving the person the right direction to go. Corporate interests come to mind.
 
Reason With Logic Filling said:
The real tragedy with the jobs market right now is that popular culture would have the everyman ashamed for doing physical labor. There are plenty of positions for teamsters, laborers, mechanics and the like that just won't be filled because millennials consider working those kinds of jobs as some kind of admission of failure. So everyone either has to go to college or they try to become a pop star or a star athlete. Meanwhile businesses are desperate to fill these kinds of positions before their current workforce retires. Leading to some lucrative opportunities if you're willing to get your hands dirty.
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Exactly what I was trying to say! Great post yours did a better explanation than mine.
 
Pin said:
Manufacturing jobs aren't the backbone of this country. Service sector jobs are the backbone of this country with 79.7% of our GDP coming from that sector, according to the CIA World Factbook.

We didn't shoot ourselves in the foot. It's completely rational not to subsidize failing industries that cost more than they produce via subsidies, healthcare costs, etc, than they provide in economic output.

This fantasy, that "we're gonna get our coal and factory jobs back" is holding back America. I mean, become an engineer, an accountant, something.

This is progress.
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The stuff made abroad is not better than what it replaced. I know this first hand. Manufacturing supports other industries. Why is it that my buddy works 7 days a week making parts and screws for aerospace. Cause the Chinese stuff sucks. They have zero obligation to you as a customer. You going to china to complain? Nope. Even if you got there they then tell you to fuck off.

Seems you have a problem with coal mining and manual labor. Life was never easy. It's easier cause others are willing to do it. It does not mean that they are less human because they do something your not willing to do. God bless everyone who came before me that actually suffered so I could sit here with the heat on and complain while it snows and is freezing cold outside. Let us not forget whose bones we are walking upon.
 
Pin said:
Manufacturing jobs aren't the backbone of this country.
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Repugnicans have been sold a lie they don't understand
 
Reason With Logic Filling said:
The real tragedy with the jobs market right now is that popular culture would have the everyman ashamed for doing physical labor. There are plenty of positions for teamsters, laborers, mechanics and the like that just won't be filled because millennials consider working those kinds of jobs as some kind of admission of failure. So everyone either has to go to college or they try to become a pop star or a star athlete. Meanwhile businesses are desperate to fill these kinds of positions before their current workforce retires. Leading to some lucrative opportunities if you're willing to get your hands dirty.
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Yeah, my generation needs to get its shit together and look at the facts.
 
And president Trump wanted to let all the facts out and was prevented from doing so. That should tell you something about those working for you in your government. Why won't they trust you with the truth. What makes them more trustworthy than you? Nothing. Your apathy keeps them in power and you get the government you deserve in the end.
 
efromm said:
The stuff made abroad is not better than what it replaced. I know this first hand. Manufacturing supports other industries. Why is it that my buddy works 7 days a week making parts and screws for aerospace. Cause the Chinese stuff sucks. They have zero obligation to you as a customer. You going to china to complain? Nope. Even if you got there they then tell you to fuck off.
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It's cheaper.

Your experience is with manufacturing is unfortunate but show me some data. The American economy generates a higher nominal GDP than the Chinese economy.

The Chinese economy has the largest secondary sector (manufacturing, construction) in the world by industrial output. The American economy has the largest tertiary sector (services) in the world.

According to the Census Bureau, the U.S population is at least 326 million people.

China's population: about 1.4 billion.

The American GDP per capita is 57,000 USD.
The Chinese GDP per capita is 15,000 USD.

We get a larger bang for our buck out of our people per 1000. We invest more in our people via the service sector, the more productive economic sector, because the returns of the service sector are fantastic compared to manufacturing. Even China is trying to shift to a more tertiary economy.

The service sector is more productive than manufacturing.

I've provided data from the IMF, CIA World Factbook, and U.S Census Bureau to make my case. I'm holding you to the same standard as myself, step your game up.

Seems you have a problem with coal mining and manual labor. Life was never easy. It's easier cause others are willing to do it. It does not mean that they are less human because they do something your not willing to do. God bless everyone who came before me that actually suffered so I could sit here with the heat on and complain while it snows and is freezing cold outside. Let us not forget whose bones we are walking upon.
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I didn't say that there was a damn thing wrong with manual labor.

As for coal-mining, I'm fine with those ghastly jobs being shipped overseas until we can completely automate them or replace them with jobs that favor renewable energy. As for now, we can afford the tariffs. If we want China to give us a more favorable deal with the coal, we need to get better ambassadors.
 
Is there not some ethical concern for shipping manufacturing overseas for cheap labor? I mean the thing that makes it cheap and the reason it's moved from the U.S. to China and India and not, for example, England or France is because unlike Britain, France, and the United States third world hellholes don't have to provide for an 8 hour workday, minimum wage, safety regulations, retirement, healthcare and so on... We recognize many of these things as basic rights of workers here in the "first world" because they're human beings who deserve a certain level of treatment. But you make those people foreigners who speak a different language and suddenly the bare minimum isn't so important.

What is the moral difference between this and having a serf class in the U.S.?
 
Reason With Logic Filling said:
Is there not some ethical concern for shipping manufacturing overseas for cheap labor? I mean the thing that makes it cheap and the reason it's moved from the U.S. to China and India and not, for example, England or France is because unlike Britain, France, and the United States third world hellholes don't have to provide for an 8 hour workday, minimum wage, safety regulations, retirement, healthcare and so on... We recognize many of these things as basic rights of workers here in the "first world" because they're human beings who deserve a certain level of treatment. But you make those people foreigners who speak a different language and suddenly the bare minimum isn't so important.

What is the moral difference between this and having a serf class in the U.S.?
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One thing at a time: it's unfortunate but so is most of human history.

China is shifting its manufacturing economy to a more service-sector one because their President Xi Jinping is sharp as a tack and has seen the numbers. Therefore, less sweatshops, less gruesome labor, etc.

After all, would you rather work a 14 hour workday in a sweatshop or a bank?
 
Reason With Logic Filling said:
Is there not some ethical concern for shipping manufacturing overseas for cheap labor? I mean the thing that makes it cheap and the reason it's moved from the U.S. to China and India and not, for example, England or France is because unlike Britain, France, and the United States third world hellholes don't have to provide for an 8 hour workday, minimum wage, safety regulations, retirement, healthcare and so on... We recognize many of these things as basic rights of workers here in the "first world" because they're human beings who deserve a certain level of treatment. But you make those people foreigners who speak a different language and suddenly the bare minimum isn't so important.

What is the moral difference between this and having a serf class in the U.S.?
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Nothing and that is what I was getting at about the Chinese pipe. Our government won't allow its use in its very own buildings. We are wrong to allow our corporations to go over seas and rape others that are not as well off as we are. It's the same shit that's been going on it seems like to me forever. Our govt used slaves and outright liked and eventually removed the American natives. For the same reasons. Mankind if he wants to survive is going to have to refigure out a new way of living.
 
But who works at the sweat shop then? Robots? That's fine. What about third world that is trying to come up? I guess at some point we can just give them service jobs. Not sure of what kind. Though.
 
Pin said:
One thing at a time: it's unfortunate but so is most of human history.

China is shifting it's manufacturing economy to a more service-sector one because their President Xi Jinping is sharp as a tack and has seen the numbers. Therefore, less sweatshops, less gruesome labor, etc.

After all, would you rather work a 14 hour workday in a sweatshop or a bank?
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I think you've missed the point, even if we don't send manufacturing jobs to china specifically there are still going to be these hellholes with child labor and all sorts of practices that we find despicable, and we'll always buy their goods. So the question again stands:

What is the moral difference between letting some foreign laborer make our goods under dangerous conditions and unscrupulous management and just replicating that practice back here at home?
 
I don't check out the forums as often as I should so I don't know who'm it is about, but I don't believe it's any different from left with propaganda. Both are equally dangerous and damaging. A lot of right wing policies also tend to be stuff that honestly is not right wing at all but used to be left wing policies 10 or more years ago. Society is changing, it's changing very fast and it's warping peoples perspectives on things.

A lot of the news these days is sensationalized and puts things out of context. The news doesn't post it's sources and most people don't verify it, leaving a large portion of the world just shouting whatever the loudest voice yells to them is seeing reason. I don't mind reading the occasional rightwing or leftwing topic because it shows different perspectives. They tend to highlight concerns of certain groups of people that could be fixed in an agreeable manner if the right policies were applied. The sensationalism of things is warping things into Black or White, Right or Wrong, Evil and Good. Whilst in reality most of the right solutions are in some shade of grey.

I do believe though that it is every persons right to express their beliefs but with limits. When someone shoves their opinion and views down your throat, it just triggers a gag reflex and that doesn't achieve anything. It's more likely to just get you blocked or ignored because you're being obnoxious about it. It's like the boy who cried wolf... Or pikachu. Pikachu repeats the same kind of shit over and over again too. It's funny at first but the more you hear pikachu speak with variations on his name the more you feel like bashing your head in. In fact, It wouldn't surprise me if the guy who played Hodor in game of thrones will do just that in light of his awe inspiring dialog.
 
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