terrorist action of israel vs apathy

[just me]

I reckon what Israel is doing is on a par with the downing of that civilian airline in Ukraine, both the killing of the kids in their playground under UN protection and the downing of the civilian airline have been claimed to be a mistake but they're rushing to prosecute the pro-Russian ukrainians for war crimes and they're saying nothing really about the Israelis.

Ever hear of or see a Fajr-5? Developed in Iran?
Operators[edit]

• 
  Iran
• 
  Syria[SUP][15][/SUP]
• 
  Lebanon
  • Hezbollah
• 
  Palestine
  • 
    Hamas
  • 
    Islamic Jihad Movement in Palestine

Please feel free to click on the Hamas link and read Article 7, and their take on the Holocaust.

 

[Lark]

Ever hear of or see a Fajr-5? Developed in Iran?
Operators[edit]

• 
  Iran
• 
  Syria[SUP][15][/SUP]
• 
  Lebanon
  • Hezbollah
• 
  Palestine
  • 
    Hamas
  • 
    Islamic Jihad Movement in Palestine

Please feel free to click on the Hamas link and read Article 7, and their take on the Holocaust.

I'm from Northern Ireland so I'm a bit of an old hand at this sort of tactic and, to be frank, very tired of it really.

The case in point is that Israeli rockets were aimed at, fired at and reached their target, the target was a school of children, a school of children in a playground, a playground that they believed was safe and under UN protection. It has been claimed to have been an accident.

So, instead of discussing that you prefer to talk about Hamas and Iran and their views on the holocaust?

Well, I think we should stay on topic instead. What-About-ery is about dodging out of the topic under discussion because you dont want to or can not discuss it to have the discussion you'd rather have and are happier with, its a game for assholes.

Ultimately being concerned about the deliberate massacre of children has nothing to do with support for Hamas, Iran or holocaust deniers, I dont really give a shit about those things in the context of child killers and I dont believe that they are sufficient or necessary grounds for ignoring child killing.

I'm not being naive about war here, all wars involve this kind of thing, although there parallels between this incident and the Ukrainian one are very clear and there's a very different response and I think we all know why, Israel is the state which is above reproach.

 

[just me]

The very first thing someone, with all this war knowledge like yourself has, should do is study your enemy.

Article 7? What does it state? What does it quote?

Holocaust denial= stupidity and ignorance.

Tactic? Do you actually think I am using a tactic. A Fajr-5 blows up prematurely and all of a sudden it becomes this great tool for more propaganda.


Article 7 basically quotes a book many Muslims hold sacred. Mentality? Hatred. I am not unfamiliar with war.

 

[just me]

[h=2]Criticism[/h][h=3]Proximity to civilians during warfare[/h]After Operation Pillar of Defense, Human Rights Watch stated that Palestinian groups had endangered civilians by "repeatedly fired rockets from densely populated areas, near homes, businesses, and a hotel" and noted that under international law, parties to a conflict may not to place military targets in or near densely populated areas. One rocket was launched close to the Shawa and Housari Building, where various Palestinian and international media have offices; another was fired from the yard of a house near the Deira Hotel.[SUP][276][/SUP][SUP][unreliable source?][/SUP][SUP][277][/SUP][SUP][not in citation given][/SUP] Human Rights Watch said it had not been able to identify any instance where civilians had been warned to evacuate an area before a rocket launch by Palestinian militants.[SUP][277][/SUP][SUP][not in citation given][/SUP]
New York Times journalist Steven Erlanger reported that "Hamas rocket and weapons caches, including rocket launchers, have been discovered in and under mosques, schools and civilian homes."[SUP][278][/SUP] Another report published by Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center revealed that Hamas used close to 100 mosques to store weapons and as launch-pads to shoot rockets. The report contains testimony from variety Palestinian sources, including a Hamas militant Sabhi Majad Atar, who said he was taught how to shoot rockets from inside a mosque.[SUP][279][/SUP] Hamas has also been criticized by Israeli officials for blending into or hiding among the Palestinian civilian population During the 2008—2009 Israel—Gaza conflict.[SUP][280][/SUP] The Israeli government published what it said was video evidence of human shield tactics by Hamas.[SUP][281][/SUP] Israel said that Hamas frequently used mosques and school yards[SUP][282][/SUP] as hideouts and places to store weapons,[SUP][283][/SUP][SUP][284][/SUP] and that Hamas militants stored weapons in their homes, making it difficult to ensure that civilians close to legitimate military targets are not hurt during Israeli military operations.[SUP][285][/SUP] Israeli officials also accused the Hamas leadership of hiding under Shifa Hospital during the conflict, using the patients inside to deter an Israeli attack.[SUP][278][/SUP][SUP][286][/SUP]
The Israeli government filed a report entitled "Gaza Operations Investigation: Second Update" to the United Nations accusing Hamas of exploiting its rules of engagement by shooting rockets and launching attacks within protected civilian areas.[SUP][287][/SUP][SUP][288][/SUP][SUP][289][/SUP] Israel says 12,000 rockets and mortars were fired at it between 2000 and 2008–nearly 3,000 in 2008 alone.[SUP][290][/SUP]
In one case, an errant Israeli mortar strike killed dozens of people near a UN school. Hamas said that the mortar killed 42 people and left dozens wounded. Israel said that Hamas militants had launched a rocket from a yard adjacent to the school and one mortar of three rounds hit the school, due to a GPS error. According to the Israeli military probe, the remaining two rounds hit the yard used to launch rockets into Israel, killing two members of Hamas' military wing who fired the rockets.[SUP][291][/SUP]
Human Right Watch called Hamas to "publicly renounce" the rocket attacks against Israeli civilians and hold those responsible to account. Human Right Watch program director Iain Levine said the attacks by Hamas were "unlawful and unjustifiable, and amount to war crimes", and accused Hamas of putting Palestinians at risk by launching attacks from built-up areas.[SUP][290][/SUP] Hamas spokesman relied that the report was "biased" and he denied that Hamas uses human shields.[SUP][290][/SUP]
Human Rights Watch investigated 19 incidents involving 53 civilian deaths in Gaza that Israel said were the result of Hamas fighting in densely populated areas and did not find evidence for existence of Palestinian fighters in the areas at the time of the Israeli attack. In other cases where no civilians had died, the report concluded that Hamas may have deliberately fired rockets from areas close to civilians.[SUP][292][/SUP] HRW also investigated 11 deaths that Israel said were civilians being used as human shields by Hamas. HRW found no evidence that the civilians were used as human shields, nor had they been shot in crossfire.[SUP][293][/SUP]
The Israeli 'human shields' charge against Hamas was called "full of holes" by The National (UAE), which stated that only Israel accused Hamas of using human shields during the conflict, though Hamas "may be guilty" of "locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas" and for "deliberately firing indiscriminate weapons into civilian populated areas".[SUP][294][/SUP]
On July 8, 2014, Hamas' spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri encouraged the "policy of people confronting the Israeli warplanes with their bare chests", saying it has proven itself. [SUP][295][/SUP]
[h=3]Criticism of rocket and mortar attacks and the targeting of civilians[/h]Rocket attacks by Hamas have been condemned by Human rights organizations as war crimes, both because they usually target civilians and because the weapons' inaccuracy would disproportionately endanger civilians even if military targets were chosen. After Operation Pillar of Defense, Human Rights Watch stated that armed Palestinian groups fired hundreds of rockets at Israeli cities, violating international humanitarian law, and that statements by Palestinian groups that they deliberately targeted Israeli civilians demonstrated an "intent to commit war crimes". HRW's Middle East director Sarah Leah Whitson said that Palestinian groups made clear that "harming civilians was their aim" and said that the launching rockets at populated areas had no legal justification. International humanitarian law prohibits deliberate attacks on civilians and intentional violations can be war crimes.[SUP][276][/SUP]
In July 2008 Barack Obama, then the Democratic presidential candidate, said: "If somebody was sending rockets into my house, where my two daughters sleep at night, I'm going to do everything in my power to stop that, and I would expect Israelis to do the same thing."[SUP][296][/SUP] On December 28, 2008, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said in a statement: "the United States strongly condemns the repeated rocket and mortar attacks against Israel."[SUP][297][/SUP] On March 2, 2009, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton condemned the attacks.[SUP][298][/SUP]
The August 2, 2010 Rocket attacks on Eilat and Aqaba sparked rage in Egypt at Hamas and Iran. The Egyptian press stated that the firing of the rockets from Egyptian territory by Hamas or by organizations cooperating with it constituted the crossing of a red line. The Egyptian position is that Iran is employing local proxies, such as Hamas, to escalate violence in the Middle East and to sabotage the Palestinian reconciliation efforts, as well as efforts to renew Palestinian-Israeli peace negotiations.[SUP][299][/SUP] Later that year, the Egyptian government daily Al-Gumhouriyya also slammed Hamas's firing of "primitive" rockets at Israel that, according to the writer, serve only to prompt a deadly response from Israel. He blamed Hamas for turning the Gaza Strip into a "big prison" isolated from the world, where the residents suffer poverty while the leaders live in luxury.[SUP][300][/SUP]

 

[just me]

[h=3]Hamas Charter (1988)[/h]Main article: Hamas Covenant

• Article 7 of the Hamas Covenant provides the following quotation, attributed to Mohammed:

"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."[SUP][246][/SUP]
​

• Article 22 states that the French revolution, the Russian revolution, colonialism and both world wars were created by the Zionists or forces supportive of Zionism:

"You may speak as much as you want about regional and world wars. They were behind World War I, when they were able to destroy the Islamic Caliphate, making financial gains and controlling resources. They obtained the Balfour Declaration, formed the League of Nations through which they could rule the world. They were behind World War II, through which they made huge financial gains by trading in armaments, and paved the way for the establishment of their state. It was they who instigated the replacement of the League of Nations with the United Nations and the Security Council to enable them to rule the world through them. There is no war going on anywhere, without having their finger in it."[SUP][247][/SUP]
​

• Article 32 of the Covenant refers to an antisemitic forgery, The Protocols of the Elders of Zion:

"Today it is Palestine, tomorrow it will be one country or another. The Zionist plan is limitless. After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying."[SUP][246][/SUP]
​

 

[just me]

What kind of peace can come from someone rearming their rocket arsenal? How long will it last? When will this all happen all over again? Read Article 7. It won't stop. It will have to be stopped or it will just postpone more for later, like a commercial while watching TV. Sooner or later, people will see this or just turn a blind eye to it.

 

[just me]

The leader of the Qassam military wing of Hamas has called on all Palestinians to wage a holy war against Israel. Sorry, but wouldn't that make them militants instead of civilians? What is he thinking? What he was taught: that's right. Shouldn't he be leading them?

 

[Lark]

The leader of the Qassam military wing of Hamas has called on all Palestinians to wage a holy war against Israel. Sorry, but wouldn't that make them militants instead of civilians? What is he thinking? What he was taught: that's right. Shouldn't he be leading them?

I'm sorry but I really dont like were accepting that logic leads, its a little bit like considering all non-combatants are now legitimate targets. You know who was big on that dont you? Yeah, and the entire world put aside their differences to crush them and eradicate all traces of their regime and ideology.

 

[just me]

I'm sorry but I really dont like were accepting that logic leads, its a little bit like considering all non-combatants are now legitimate targets. You know who was big on that dont you? Yeah, and the entire world put aside their differences to crush them and eradicate all traces of their regime and ideology.

Read my post again and you will find something you surely must have missed. If the Palestinians all take up arms against Israel like their militant wing leader asks them to do, it would place all of them in harm's way. The man is so filled with hate, he would ask those he is supposed to be watching over to die for some stupid cause. Would you like to read it?

"What the planes, artillery, and warships haven't achieved, the defeated [Israeli] forces will not achieve in the field for, thanks be to Allah, they have become prey for the guns and ambushes of our jihad fighters,” promises Deif in the tape.
"IDF soldiers are facing soldiers who are eager for death and factions that are united," Deif goes on. "The firm resolve of the Palestinian people will bring victory on the battlefield. The enemy is sending its soldiers to a certain holocaust."

Search for his pre-recorded tape released today.

 

[Lark]

I dont doubt that Hamas are wicked, that's never been disputed but I think that's become an excuse for the Israelis at this point, they are just committing some kind of genocidal war of annihilation, which is never a legit goal, whether an entire people is up in arms or not.

 

[just me]

What you are saying is simply not true. I, personally, would rather live in the rubble north of Gaza City than to live above Hamas with Israel attacking them. The Palestinians should be shuffled out of the way, but Hamas will mistreat or kill them if they move.

 

[sassafras]

What you are saying is simply not true. I, personally, would rather live in the rubble north of Gaza City than to live above Hamas with Israel attacking them.

That's probably because Gaza doesn't mean anything to you. You could get up and go anywhere in the world on a passport if you wanted and could afford to do so. You might complain you don't have much money, because we all do that here in the good ol' cushy West, but I guarantee you have at least enough to scrounge together a living that's congruent with your cultural identity and beliefs. Being who you are, looking as you do, having the education, the background, the experiences afforded to you because of your many social privileges opens doors that many, many people around the world don't have. You are accepted wherever you go automatically because you are the majority. You think, feel and communicate the way everyone around you does and that's your norm, your identity.

If, however, all you had was one piece of your ancestral home and no connection anywhere else in the world-- especially when you felt like the rest of the world was against you anyway--you can damn well be sure you'd cling to that piece of yourself with every inch of your being if someone who had a lot more social and political power was trying to shove you off of it wearing an iron glove in a kitten paw. You might even resort to desperate measures and, le gasp, feel bitter and angry at the people doing it. You might even start adopting some really callous beliefs and philosophies to compliment the way you've been treated.

Don't take your privileges for granted. The answer behind the conflict is way more complicated than the 'well, why the fuck do they want that land so much anyway? '

The Palestinians should be shuffled out of the way, but Hamas will mistreat or kill them if they move.

Exactly.

They're damned if they do, damned if they don't. I don't suppose there's any compassion left in the world for a people who misguidedly chose a leader in the midst of despair and desperation and it went all horribly wrong them, is there? It's not like Hamas put a booth out on college campus and these folks with flower in their hair thought they'd like to try something new for the semester. These were people that were pushed to the brink. When you slap somebody in the face enough times, don't get all offended when they finally fight back and question your authority to do so while you stand there rubbing your jaw with a gormless look on your face, asking Whaaaat? I didn't DO anything to them... All we did was hit 'em a little.

It ain't so simple.

 

[Stu]

 

[just me]

That's probably because Gaza doesn't mean anything to you. You could get up and go anywhere in the world on a passport if you wanted and could afford to do so. You might complain you don't have much money, because we all do that here in the good ol' cushy West, but I guarantee you have at least enough to scrounge together a living that's congruent with your cultural identity and beliefs. Being who you are, looking as you do, having the education, the background, the experiences afforded to you because of your many social privileges opens doors that many, many people around the world don't have. You are accepted wherever you go automatically because you are the majority. You think, feel and communicate the way everyone around you does and that's your norm, your identity.

If, however, all you had was one piece of your ancestral home and no connection anywhere else in the world-- especially when you felt like the rest of the world was against you anyway--you can damn well be sure you'd cling to that piece of yourself with every inch of your being if someone who had a lot more social and political power was trying to shove you off of it wearing an iron glove in a kitten paw. You might even resort to desperate measures and, le gasp, feel bitter and angry at the people doing it. You might even start adopting some really callous beliefs and philosophies to compliment the way you've been treated.

Don't take your privileges for granted. The answer behind the conflict is way more complicated than the 'well, why the fuck do they want that land so much anyway? '



Exactly.

They're damned if they do, damned if they don't. I don't suppose there's any compassion left in the world for a people who misguidedly chose a leader in the midst of despair and desperation and it went all horribly wrong them, is there? It's not like Hamas put a booth out on college campus and these folks with flower in their hair thought they'd like to try something new for the semester. These were people that were pushed to the brink. When you slap somebody in the face enough times, don't get all offended when they finally fight back and question your authority to do so while you stand there rubbing your jaw with a gormless look on your face, asking Whaaaat? I didn't DO anything to them... All we did was hit 'em a little.

It ain't so simple.

I care about Gaza more than you think, but cannot tolerate its current leaders and the paths they have taken these people down. Yes, there are complicated dynamics few people understand there, as is with many places in the world. I cannot understand how so many people don't want to remember what happened around 1967. Instead, everyone wants to look at pictures and graphs.

 

[Skarekrow]

I care about Gaza more than you think, but cannot tolerate its current leaders and the paths they have taken these people down. Yes, there are complicated dynamics few people understand there, as is with many places in the world. I cannot understand how so many people don't want to remember what happened around 1967. Instead, everyone wants to look at pictures and graphs.

There are clearly two sides of the story as to what happened in 1967. Some say that Israel attacked first.
There was also a UN resolution as to what was to take place since that war came to closure…signed by both recognized peoples.
The Israelis never followed through with what would have been a peaceful solution to the issue, but it also would have given Israel a limited amount of the land it wanted to lay claim to. Claim that was first made by proxy I might add. So instead, they have occupied the people of Palestine…for 60+ years now, they have been occupied by another people who have far far more rights than the occupied Palestinians do. The Israelis control how much food, medicine, supplies, petrol, etc. gets in or out of the occupied territories….just the other night, Israel bombed and destroyed the last power plant within Gaza.
Just because you occupy a people doesn’t give you the right to mistreat them and pass laws giving you protections to do so. You should read what is written in regards to the rights of the Israelis and the right of the Palestinians - huge difference.
If anyone is responsible for the creation of extremist groups within that region it is Israel and it’s “our way or the highway” and by “highway” I mean you are laying dead on it.
By “occupying” the disputed regions of Palestine they have forced the people there to become more and more extreme because they are more and more desperate.
As for who is suffering more? Why are we even asking such a question?
Anyone trying to impose their will on anyone else through the means of force, fear, and intimidation…should be stopped.
You cannot lump women and children into the same camp as the extremists though…because it just isn’t true…and that is who has been dying the most lately - women and children…civilians.
If the UN would grow a set and actually impose the resolutions restricting Israel…there is a chance for peace…otherwise, given a few years…Palestine and the Palestinian people will cease to exist.

 

[just me]

 

[just me]

Netanyahu is ridding Israel of constant torment via a tunneling system that could have built over four hospitals with the cement and electricity. All that digging could have been used for irrigation. If it were up to me, I'd also be going after HAMAS before I ended this.

1967...[h=2][/h][h=2]In 1967 Israel did not wake up one morning and decide to go to war - she woke up one morning and found she had to defend herself.[/h] 2007 marks the fortieth anniversary of the war the West terms "The Six Day War". The Arabs call it the "1967 War" or an-Naksah (The Setback). It has been said that for Israel this war was a question of sheer survival; for the Arabs it was one of credibility.
Of course hindsight is a wonderful thing, offering immense clarity over what could or should have been done. It is too easy to be judgmental in retrospect. So this site has tried to turn back the clock to give you a flavour of what it was like to be in Israel at the time, living with the tensions involved with a countdown to what Israel's opponents suggested would be annihilation.

 

[Skarekrow]

Netanyahu is ridding Israel of constant torment via a tunneling system that could have built over four hospitals with the cement and electricity. All that digging could have been used for irrigation. If it were up to me, I'd also be going after HAMAS before I ended this.

1967...In 1967 Israel did not wake up one morning and decide to go to war - she woke up one morning and found she had to defend herself.

2007 marks the fortieth anniversary of the war the West terms "The Six Day War". The Arabs call it the "1967 War" or an-Naksah (The Setback). It has been said that for Israel this war was a question of sheer survival; for the Arabs it was one of credibility.
Of course hindsight is a wonderful thing, offering immense clarity over what could or should have been done. It is too easy to be judgmental in retrospect. So this site has tried to turn back the clock to give you a flavour of what it was like to be in Israel at the time, living with the tensions involved with a countdown to what Israel's opponents suggested would be annihilation.

Yes, I am well aware that that is what we have been taught here in the West, especially America best-buds with Israel.
But there are reports from everywhere around the world, telling us, we have been lied to…do you think the Hamas propaganda machine is so powerful? lololol
I will admit that perhaps it was true that Israel was defending herself…there are many accounts though to the contrary. Even so, if it were true…they didn’t get attacked without provoking the indigenous peoples. There are many accounts of abuses brought onto the Palestinians by the Zionists before the war ever broke out.
Regardless of who started it…we are past the point of ending it…now it is just an extermination of a people.
There is a LOT of proof for that, and actually very little proof for your stance.
It’s no wonder with shows like the 700 club advertising their free booklet on TV “Islam - A religion of peace?” and trying to stir up more hatred and religious fervor and extremism here in the US. You want to know why the countries of the middle east hate us? Here’s a hint… It’s not because we ourselves are a peaceful nation bringing democracy to those poor subjugated bastards worshipping Allah.
Our country's put a lot of other countries in debt around the world…we are predators of other nations…or we could forget about the debts right now if you’ll let us put an Army base there…or maybe you’d like to buy some F-16s? You know, your neighbor just bought 8…you wouldn’t want to buy anything less than that. And then when they don’t comply with us…we march in and other-throw their nation…like the countless regimes we have toppled in South and Central America, in the Middle East, Iraq, Libya…(I am not saying that Saddam and Kadafi were such nice guys, only that they didn’t cooperate with us, or more precisely - stopped cooperating).
This is what we do…this is why they hate us…we steal their natural resources, we tell them to be free and vote for whomever you wish - you have been democratized! You’re welcome…oh but you cannot vote for that fellow…or that one…here, this is a good guy, yes perfect.
You’re living in a bubble of non-reality if you think the US is so kind and gracious to the world at large.

 

[Skarekrow]

From the Huffington Post -


UN Official Chris Gunness Breaks Down On Air After School Bombing

After a United Nations-run school sheltering more than 3,000 Palestinians was shelled early Wednesday, UN official Chris Gunness could not contain his grief while on camera with Al Jazeera Arabic.

"The rights of Palestinians, and even their children, are wholesale denied... and it's appalling," Gunness, spokesman for the UN agency for Palestinian refugees (UNRWA), told Al Jazeera Arabic from Jerusalem. The interviewer appears to thank him for appearing, upon which Gunness breaks down and weeps.

Gaza's Ministry of Health said at least 17 people were killed and 90 wounded by the school shelling. An Israeli military spokesman told the New York Times that Israeli troops did not target UN facilities, but did respond to Palestinian militant fire from nearby the school in Jabaliya refugee camp.

The White House and the United Nations Secretary General separately condemned the attack. In an official statement Wednesday, the UNRWA Commissioner-General Pierre Kranhenbuhl wrote: "Children killed in their sleep; this is an affront to all of us, a source of universal shame. Today the world stands disgraced."

[video=youtube;iFd8jVrbf0A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iFd8jVrbf0A[/video]

 

[just me]

Some people will believe almost anything...

DMZ