terrorist action of israel vs apathy

[cvp12gh5]

Well its not a 'scenario' if its true

Tell me...who run the federal reserve?

Who runs hollywood?

Who runs congress?

Who runs the mainstream media?

Gilad Atzmon talking about 'jewish power'

[video=youtube;zMsWt7G6nSc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMsWt7G6nSc[/video]

Stop being so jelly.

 

[muir]

Stop being so jelly.

'jelly'...whats that?

Here in the UK it's a kind of dessert that pretends to be food

 

[cvp12gh5]

'jelly'...whats that?

Here in the UK it's a kind of dessert that pretends to be food

Jealous. Funny way of saying jealous. Sigh.

 

[muir]

Jealous. Funny way of saying jealous. Sigh.

I thought you might be meaning that...

I believe in decentralising power so whenever i see power being centralised i begin to shake my head...because i know that whenever there is centralised power there is corruption and exploitation

I'm not jealous of it...i'm wary of it

 

[muir]

Ex CIA Professor: Israel owns the US congress

[video=youtube;D_T1VrzdaKs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_T1VrzdaKs[/video]

[video=youtube;XHl1JnQoIWQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHl1JnQoIWQ[/video]

 

[myself]

@CrazyBeautiful, @Eventhorizon, @justme, and to all pro-israel moral death machine supporters...

how can you justify the occupation and slaughter of thousands of people at this time. did you see the video of your heroic IDF exploding white phosphorus over a civilian population?

do you realize that this whole invasion was launched on false pretext?

did you know Israeli settlers burn down thousands of the native peoples olive trees, and kidnap them, and torture children, and wish for the elimination of the palestinians?

don't talk to me about hamas 'rockets'... they pose no real threat. The ones responding with violence are extremely upset with the occupying force, and are legally entitled to defend themselves against such brutality.
They are just shooting big homemade bottle rockets. Most of them never make it to any target. Many don't clear the wall.

I don't believe it is the right thing for them to do, I wish they'd lay down their weapons.

Many of them are peaceful people. I know many in Israel wish for peace as well.

I just don't get how you can call this IDF action 'defense'.

What about the 800,000 fruit trees that Israel has destroyed since 1967?

This is not propaganda I am sharing.
I share videos but there is valuable information there.
The information may be fact checked. Videos are a convenient way of sharing alternative views, but they are lost on people who have closed their minds.

As I've said, I held a pro-israel bias my whole life... but then I discovered some new information. You can do it too. Don't let yourself become so rigid, it's bad for your brain.

http://www.presstv.com/detail/2014/05/20/363390/israeli-forces-uproot-palestinian-trees/

 

[Eventhorizon]

@CrazyBeautiful Accusing someone of anti-semitism is a standard tactic used to discredit, as is the racist assertion that an Iranian must be a jew hater.

For those of you who have consistently demonstrated dismissiveness and aggressiveness in this thread, it looks like you are so dis-connected from your heart.

If you would open up your heart to empathize with those who suffer, you would find healing for your self.

It is so much better to live with love, rather than put up walls.

Anyone that can support the murder of thousands of civilians and claim moral justification through self-defense, is simply not in touch with reality.

We have been indoctrinated with so much programming, and many of us have suffered tremendous psychic abuse in this society.

Forgive everyone in your life and let go of your grudges. Love people, and embrace with compassion rather than letting your hearts grow cold.

We don't just perceive reality with our eyes, we feel it with our heart.
@justme All the prayers in the world are meaningless without love.

I don't know how to have this conversation anymore. I hope these words can be received without indignation, for humanities sake.

We must check ourselves at this time, because we are witnessing the establishment of a fascist state, with USA in full support.
[MENTION=8603]Eventhorizon[/MENTION] Are we completely closed to receiving new information that might change our mind? Why is there such resistance to compassion for humanity?

[video=youtube;PFDhc7GFMts]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFDhc7GFMts[/video]

I dont have a lot of compassion for a bully that eventually gets its butt kicked and then cries to the worlds about how badly its being treated.

 

[just me]

"@justme All the prayers in the world are meaningless without love." unquote

What are you saying before you think? There is a space between just and me, by the way.

 

[just me]

[MENTION=963]myself[/MENTION] would you mind if I blocked your words and thoughts based on your "death machine" statement?

 

[myself]

[MENTION=680]just me[/MENTION] I didn't mean to offend you. Forgive me?
[MENTION=8603]Eventhorizon[/MENTION] You are quoting the national narrative.
You never watched the Miko Peled presentation, I assume.
Go check the videos I posted earlier, if you care to check your opinions against facts.

I'm going away for awhile. Won't have a computer for a few weeks. See you later. Everyone. <3


[video=youtube;is3CPHzCg_w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is3CPHzCg_w&amp;index=5&amp;list=UUmHcilIdNyjdsuiE 6vDRAEQ[/video]

 

[myself]

[video=youtube;kqtGPT9mCHA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqtGPT9mCHA[/video]

 

[myself]

[MENTION=8603]Eventhorizon[/MENTION][video=youtube;4z4TvDbffI0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4z4TvDbffI0[/video]

 

[Stu]

 

[La Sagna]

I really admire and applaud Jewish individuals who use their heads and their hearts to see that the real fight is for human rights for all:

http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/american-telling-israelpalestine.html

http://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/news

http://ijsn.net/who-we-are/

http://www.popularresistance.org/israeli-zionists-do-not-speak-for-all-jews/

http://jfjfp.com/?p=62327

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Jews-Against-Genocide/694634937278932?ref_type=bookmark

http://www.opednews.com/articles/4-...Funding_Hamas_Humanity_Killed-140710-826.html

http://stopwar.org.uk/news/why-jews...-of-palestine-and-attack-on-gaza#.U9Z0DfldV8E

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/07/26/caplanskys-deli-palestine-film-festival_n_5623296.html

http://mic.com/articles/94406/why-israel-s-invasion-of-gaza-doesn-t-represent-israelis-like-me

http://www.bustle.com/articles/3150...-to-me-being-jewish-means-thinking-critically

http://www.bustle.com/articles/3283...i-asked-the-daily-show-host-and-heres-what-he

 

[Lark]

I worry though that looking for Jewish comment on the actions of Israel just validates, in a round about way, the ideological precept that Israel is a Jewish state.

I think that the discourse against zionism should actually oppose the idea of ethno-nationalist states, I've never seen a great deal of difference between zionism's ethno-nationalism and some varieties of nazism or fascism or, at the very least, Aryanism or Indo-European racial ideologies, I can understand the sensitivity surrounding those sorts of comparisons but the socialists who wrote about the war in the warsaw ghetto against the German nazi oppression DID make comparisons between the zionists and nazis and that they DID agree upon ethno-nationalist seperatism and repatriation, it actually enabled the holocaust as the Zionist authorities encouraged German Jews to get on the cattle carts to go to what they told them were repatriation camps to begin a new life in Israel. There's a whole other history, including the Jewish Bundists, socialists who thought any ehtno-nationalist state, anywhere in the world, was not a valid goal for Jewish communities to aspire to, who contested with zionists before and during both world wars and earlier than that. I've never really understood the manner in which all that history has been suppressed, including the editing or removal of wikis online, although this mirrors the butchering and removal of the socialism wiki too and could have had as much to do with Jewish groups rejecting any recognition of socialism's popularity among Jews as anything else.

Its like when there were recent outbreaks of anti-semitism in France, Ireland or the UK or protests which could be branded as anti-semitic the Israelis just stated that Jews should be anywhere else in the world other than Israel anyway and they ought to pack up and move to Israel were they wont experience that kind of thing. There's also some interesting stories about African Jews attempting to go to Israel having been promised the same, in their opinion, as any other Jews and being subject to racism, I dont mean converts to the religion but people who believe they are a tribe in the same sense as the Jews in eastern europe and elsewhere believed that they were all of the same, single tribe of israel.

 

[cvp12gh5]

There is a great article that [MENTION=9809]La Sagna[/MENTION] posted, written by a young Israeli man living in Tel Aviv (which is not that far from Gaza).

http://mic.com/articles/94406/why-israel-s-invasion-of-gaza-doesn-t-represent-israelis-like-me

"For many Israelis, Gaza can only be conceived as "the place where they shoot at us from," and Palestinians in Gaza are just "human shields" or people determined to attack Israel. Likewise, for people in Gaza, Israelis are only seen as the people implementing the siege and sending drones and F16s into Gaza.

This dehumanization of both sides is at the heart of the current conflict. Israelis insist upon seeing it as a fight against terrorism, ignoring the hundreds of civilians being killed by our army, while for Palestinians this is a fight for independence and the rockets fired on Israeli civilians are considered legitimate to that end.

In nearly two weeks, Israeli forces have killed some 500 Palestinians, among them more than 100 children. Twenty Israelis have been killed. But, this is not a contest of "who gets to suffer more." Personal suffering can never be narrowed down to a statistic."

This right here. Both sides are suffering. Because you look at the statistics and see that more Palestinians have died as opposed to Israeli's, then that puts just the Israelis at fault? No, not at all. Both sides have created this problem. Both sides need to come together and put differences aside for compromise. Numbers are numbers. They don't measure the grief and pain of losing a loved one; and if they did, I'm pretty sure it would be equal.

 

[Stu]

 

[sassafras]

This right here. Both sides are suffering. Because you look at the statistics and see that more Palestinians have died as opposed to Israeli's, then that puts just the Israelis at fault? No, not at all. Both sides have created this problem. Both sides need to come together and put differences aside for compromise. Numbers are numbers. They don't measure the grief and pain of losing a loved one; and if they did, I'm pretty sure it would be equal.

Sorry, @CrazyBeautiful, usually I nod to your wisdom, but this is where I'm frankly a little taken aback by your view. Numbers are certainly not numbers. Suffering is not suffering equally across the board. When I break my arm, yes, I guess you could call that suffering, but is it really the same kind of suffering as having my other arm amputated by a buzz-saw?

Can you honestly tell me that if the situation was reversed--if it were Israeli citizens dying by the hundreds every day, living in a densely populated war-zone with nowhere to run, while the Palestinians were heavily armed to the teeth, backed by the media, UN and major governments around the world--- that you'd really say 'numbers are just numbers, there's suffering on both sides of the fence?

Look, I get it. Antisemitism is still alive and well in many parts of the world, and yes, it's hurtful and sickening to see it dredged up in this day and age, but the fact of the matter is that Jews are no longer an oppressed people. What I mean by oppression is that, as a group, they are no longer at a disadvantage economically, socially or religiously on the world stage; the paltry words of a few protesters in countries with minute influence are not going to threaten that position. As a people, Jews are too well represented in mediums that wield a great deal of power to ever allow that to happen and that's just a simple fact.

The existence of Israel and its friendship with the United States are exactly what made many of this possible. Today, Israel retains the arguably the largest and most advanced military in the world. It also possesses one of the strongest economies in the world, is one of the most educated countries in the world, and sits at an impressive number 16 on the world's most highly developed countries list, with a very comfortable standard of living and (get this) the highest life expectancy in the world.

Those are some pretty impressive achievements it's accomplished in the short 60 years its been around and despite all the 'suffering' it currently shares in equal measure with Palestine during their on-going conflict. Meanwhile, Palestine's borders have been indisputably shrinking and shrinking.

The fact of the matter is, as a people and as a country, Israeli's come into this battle with a lot of privilege, power and support, and which is why when we compare the statistics, they are highly uncomfortable and why I suppose a lot of people on the strong pro-Israeli side of the fence get pretty twitchy when it's brought up. There is a REASON why the body count on the part of the Palestinians is so high. There is a REASON why Palestinians currently occupy a tiny strip at the edge of the country map. There is a REASON why Israeli developments continue to encroach on Palestinian territory.

There is also a REASON why people are questioning the mainstream media and challenging its biases, because as a country with privilege, the State of Israel enjoys a place in the world stage whereas Palestine does not. Most of the viewpoints we're seeing here are filtered by a certain bias that kind of power allows. Heck, Israel's president gives out bursaries to students who post pro-Israeli essays on Facebook and social media. And that's on top of having a number of some of the most powerful men in the world on speed dial...

Now, I don't ascribe to any kind of world-conspiracy and I do not think any of this is premeditated in any way whatsoever. I do, however, know that people are people and they are not infallible, no matter what kind of terrifying injustice has fallen upon them in the last seventy years. Criticizing a country's military policy and acknowledging their advantage over a disenfranchised people does not make one an enemy. It is just a voice, a perspective, to keep people in check. And yet, I feel too often that this is precisely the 'card' that people pull out when they feel defensive about being in the wrong or in a position of power that grants them an uncomfortable amount of responsibility in how the conflict plays out.

The fact of the matter is, no matter who started what, the end result is a very clear power imbalance and the threat to Palestinians as a nation is hundreds upon hundreds of times more severe than it is to the Jews.

So no, suffering is NOT equal because the privilege and the power to end that suffering is NOT equal. Blame at this point is what is completely irrelevant. What's relevant is who has the power and the means to stop this.

Sadly, a lot of people seem to think that if Israeli's step up to the plate, it will be like them accepting responsibility for the whole conflict instead of looking at it as an exercise of their privilege and choosing to respond with compassion rather than righteousness.

 

[Lark]

I reckon what Israel is doing is on a par with the downing of that civilian airline in Ukraine, both the killing of the kids in their playground under UN protection and the downing of the civilian airline have been claimed to be a mistake but they're rushing to prosecute the pro-Russian ukrainians for war crimes and they're saying nothing really about the Israelis.

 

[just me]

Gaza will be a demilitarized zone.
DMZ

The land belonged to Egypt far before anyone else.