The coming American civil war.

I do not see things the way everyone else sees them. Trump understands everyone has a right to disagree. LG and almost every other group can make a sign and stand for what they believe in. I'm no white supremacist. They do not like what is going on and, quite frankly, I don't believe Trump will disagree with them. I don't like changing names and removing historical monuments. I also don't like violence in the streets. Some blacks will fly to the nearest trouble to multiply it and make a name for themselves...Jessie Jackson. NAACP tells the country what they want. We have a black history month, a black TV channel I hear?, but God forbid we have a white history month. NAACP would roll over the streets with that.

LOOK: SHINEY!@! and most everyone forgets the much more serious problems of the world. I don't have time for this nonsense. Time to let the dogs out.



#blacklivesmatter
#blacklawyersmatter


As a matter of fact, all lives matter. I am not moved much by social justness or the political sphere, but I feel given my relevant experience, schooling, and work experience, I feel we should be past that point...
 
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Some blacks will fly to the nearest trouble to multiply it and make a name for themselves...Jessie Jackson. NAACP tells the country what they want. We have a black history month, a black TV channel I hear?, but God forbid we have a white history month. NAACP would roll over the streets with that.

It's been white history millenium and white tv century. That's more difficult to recognize when examined from inside what is or was a dominant culture. You're not white, you're just some folks / some people. Then there are some Others, i.e. some Blacks, some Hispanics, some Asians, some Etcs. Up until recently, white history has been the only history, and white tv has been the only TV. They were just called "history" and "tv" and not given any labels, so I guess it's understandable to forget and act like there's no white history.

"What are they complaining about? They've already got their BET!"

More cultures are starting to find their voice and take a seat at the table. It's entirely appropriate in a nation of immigrants, and there shouldn't have to be any apology that it's inconvenient to start to have to watch out about stepping on toes. I'm sure it was an easier world to understand and live in when one culture was indisputably dominant, especially if you're a descendant of that culture.

I guess my point here is that nobody owes anything to minorities, but don't misinterpret the fact that they're gradually gaining due influence (and having more of a say in how communities are shaped and remembered) as some whiny demand for reparations, a weak-minded erasure of history, or a free pass.

Yes, confederate monuments are lasting symbols of oppression as they champion people who, as was stated in an earlier post, fought and killed for the right to enslave others. Were your ancestors enslaved for several generations by gay guys who were kissing in public?
 
It's been white history millenium and white tv century. That's more difficult to recognize when examined from inside what is or was a dominant culture. You're not white, you're just some folks / some people. Then there are some Others, i.e. some Blacks, some Hispanics, some Asians, some Etcs. Up until recently, white history has been the only history, and white tv has been the only TV. They were just called "history" and "tv" and not given any labels, so I guess it's understandable to forget and act like there's no white history.

"What are they complaining about? They've already got their BET!"

More cultures are starting to find their voice and take a seat at the table. It's entirely appropriate in a nation of immigrants, and there shouldn't have to be any apology that it's inconvenient to start to have to watch out about stepping on toes. I'm sure it was an easier world to understand and live in when one culture was indisputably dominant, especially if you're a descendant of that culture.

I guess my point here is that nobody owes anything to minorities, but don't misinterpret the fact that they're gradually gaining due influence (and having more of a say in how communities are shaped and remembered) as some whiny demand for reparations, a weak-minded erasure of history, or a free pass.

Yes, confederate monuments are lasting symbols of oppression as they champion people who, as was stated in an earlier post, fought and killed for the right to enslave others. Were your ancestors enslaved for several generations by gay guys who were kissing in public?

Lololol... you can't be serious....

You seem to be lacking a lot of authority in your posts and just rambling, a sign of low intellectualism.

What does "white" and "black" even mean to you?
 
Lololol... you can't be serious....

You seem to be lacking a lot of authority in your posts and just rambling, a sign of low intellectualism.

What does "white" and "black" even mean to you?
Ok I'll bite, but first

1) What did you think I'm trying to say?
2) How far back have you been following the thread?
3) Accuse me of whatever: having poor intellect, etc. I'm fine with being challenged or proven wrong, but puh-lease save the accusations of rambling after the wacky terbacky you posted in darc's threads.
 
I must go: think they are coming to take down my sign. Hear it bothers someone. It is just rediculous to me.

As per the Bible, I was quoting Wikipedia. It had references.

Serpents were killing those following Moses through the desert, so God had him make a golden snake for everyone to look at. No more serpents. I was always taught to face the things that bothered me, not cast them away. I simply cannot understand how statues bother people. It's no different than me having to see two men kissing on each other. Turns my stomach, so I walk away to somewhere else. It is against the ways I was raised. I don't try and make problems, I just walk the other way in disgust. I'm already watching people I love turn into people I just don't know any longer. Put up statues of that, and maybe I'll understand better. Don't believe the children should look at such.

Tell me; should I rip the statues down?

So you're saying two men kissing is equivalent to starting a civil war, killing thousands, in the defense of slavery?

Is your problem that you can't own black people or that you can't handle gay men?

Edit:

You must believe round pegs are for square holes? Stop the gay crap long enough to see I was talking about the only thing in a statue that could offend me because of my beliefs. I might let people know how I felt then and try to have them removed.

Women lost husbands and sons that never owned a slave; they just landed near here and grew the f up best they could. They were chased down and killed by the North, who would kill anyone standing in their way to keep the Union intact. The south died and lost because of the Henry Repeating Rifle...game changer. Never saw Josey Wales with a slave. You killed us once, so go ahead and tear down the Monuments. Stand up and say how much better you are than southerners. I do not believe in slavery, but statues of dead men do not bother me. While you're growing up, remember children are our responsibility. Lead them down the wrong path and you will be held accountable. You will be reminded of it daily.

Watch all the idiots ranting in your streets.

I do not see things the way everyone else sees them. Trump understands everyone has a right to disagree. LG and almost every other group can make a sign and stand for what they believe in. I'm no white supremacist. They do not like what is going on and, quite frankly, I don't believe Trump will disagree with them. I don't like changing names and removing historical monuments. I also don't like violence in the streets. Some blacks will fly to the nearest trouble to multiply it and make a name for themselves...Jessie Jackson. NAACP tells the country what they want. We have a black history month, a black TV channel I hear?, but God forbid we have a white history month. NAACP would roll over the streets with that.

LOOK: SHINEY!@! and most everyone forgets the much more serious problems of the world. I don't have time for this nonsense. Time to let the dogs out.

Nevermind, it's obviously both.
 
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DHdzw5bW0AQELYI.jpg:large
 
It's predominately Nafta and Trans Pacific partnership that again, seek to make all countries involved even power, create more inequality, destroy any business opportunities, competition and free enterprise, markets (btw, the Trump did not sigh for America to be a part of it) whilst concentrating all the wealth into a tiny hands of the few, again given the corporations all the say and power, so we are all but subservient to their demands and whatever they wish and it's showing up in public life and everything, and the people are accepting and going along with it is sort of creating certain social repercussions and ills that I believe are quite noticeable and some even kind of suspicious or drastic.

So the whole nationalist thing, I don't know if I would altogether say that it's bad. either way, it seems mostly the left is going along with and siding with the Globalists and large multi-nationalist corporations. It's also vaguely like the Soviet Union, if you look at the polices are are considered and concede with "Globalism" I believe they are simply trying to change land ownership unofficially, and things like that, not to mention create some huge communist USSR type thing or something. I guess I just don't trust them at all though, because everything I've seen and experienced has kind of pointed that it's not going to work out.
For one, being more liberal would give more power to the State and government that is already obviously in bed with the corporations and such, so how would that in actuality change anything? it's also basically siding with individuals that I am sure are rubbing shoulders with those who have already done their fair share to make North America and many other parts of the world get to this point and situation, and more then helped crony capitalism along it's way to this point.

I guess what really bothers me is I hesitate to wonder if they'll even be a welfare state, I mean I don't see crony capitalism slowing down any soon, if anything I've seen the break down in social cohesion, and simply the re-direction of all negative feelings towards the vulnerable in society, and as well I don't see there being much of a social conscious either, hardly any social programs on the rise; at least, not much that you could say make a difference. That's why I don't blame Americans at all if it does break out into a civil war and it's only natural as yet again, what I have experienced here in Canada, there is simply no middle ground, there is simply no desire to reach any conclusion or understanding, it's just one group wanting to throw around all it's weight and power, or at least live with complete decadence and little to no conscious as to what their actions are causing.
 
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So far Japan is nationalist, America is nationalist, Britain, and Quebec is also nationalist.

Interesting...

I honestly don't know what's going on with the left at this moment though or what they hope to accomplish, as I feel they are greatly confused or misguided or something. I mean I guess it's not the Soviet Union (sort of, but I am sure they still had poverty and such) because they at least "shared" resources, wherein they are claiming globalism and all of these policies like the TPP and NAFTA are somehow liberal in nature (sort of, but they don't seem that sure themselves) and again, they just seem so misguided. It's not liberal because it's pretty much just again, giving all the power to the multi national corporations and then promising that they'll be more liberal or something, but probably in the worst possible way, just creating like a giant welfare state and disenfranchising a ton of people and then saying that it's just "capitalism" and there's nothing they can do about it.


I honestly cannot really it working out anyway, and I almost think they want conflict to fill the empty void and give their lives meaning or something, which is pretty pathetic. Yet, new shiny things, global warming, like we haven't already been through all of this already? oh no, Momma, Momma, the robots are malfunctioning, somebody take them out back and put them down!

"The great culling"

I still don't altogether agree with Donald Trump and those in his cabinet or whatever it's called in America, but it seems no one wants to co-operate so it would just fall on deaf ears at this point.
 
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Believe what you will...

"Why does America suddenly care so much about these old pieces of metal and stone?

The current battle actually goes back to a mass shooting in 2015, when self-described white supremacist Dylann Roof shot and killed nine people in a predominantly black church in Charleston, South Carolina. Roof drew a lot of attention for posing with the Confederate flag in images that came out after the shooting — and that helped spur a fight within South Carolina about whether it should take down a Confederate flag that had flown at the state capitol for years. The state eventually agreed to officially take down the flag (after it was unofficially taken down by activist Bree Newsome).

Since then, many cities and states, particularly in the South, have been questioning their own Confederate symbols.

The argument is simple: The Confederacy fought to maintain slavery and white supremacy in the United States, and that isn’t something that the country should honor or commemorate in any way.

Critics argue, however, that these monuments are really about Southern pride, not commemorating a pro-slavery rebellion movement.
They argue that trying to take down the Confederate symbols works to erase part of American history.


President Donald Trump invoked such an argument on Tuesday: “This week, it is Robert E. Lee and, this week, Stonewall Jackson. Is it George Washington next? You have to ask yourself, where does it stop?” He later reiterated these arguments on Twitter, calling it “foolish” to take down Confederate monuments.

(excuse me but that is a moronic argument)

This is where the debate gets complicated, raising important questions about the US and its history: What exactly did the Confederacy stand for? And if it stood for slavery, does honoring it in effect commemorate white supremacy?

The historical record is actually pretty clear: The Confederacy was always about white supremacy, and so are the monuments dedicated to it. Much of America is now coming to terms with that — but not without a passionate, sometimes violent reaction from those who argue the statues are necessary symbols of white heritage and culture.

Of course, many people disagree that this is about erasing white history. They argue that these monuments were built originally to honor the Confederacy and the racism and white supremacy that it stood for. One of the statues in New Orleans, for example, literally celebrated a white supremacist insurgency in the city against a racially integrated police force and state militia.

In fact, most of these Confederate monuments were built during the Jim Crow era and in response to the civil rights movement — a sign that they were meant to explicitly represent white supremacy in the South.

Screen_Shot_2017_08_15_at_4.32.33_PM.png

At the center of this debate is what the Civil War was really about. The people who defend these Confederate monuments frequently argue it was really about states’ rights, while those on the other side argue that the Civil War was about slavery.

But the historical record makes it very clear that the Civil War was about slavery.
And to the extent it was about states’ rights at all, it was about a state’s right to maintain slavery.

As Ta-Nehisi Coates noted in the Atlantic, South Carolina, the first state to secede from the Union, said in its official statement that it saw any attempts to abolish slavery and grant rights to black Americans as “hostile to the South” and “destructive of its beliefs and safety”:

"A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that "Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free," and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction. This sectional combination for the submersion of the Constitution, has been aided in some of the States by elevating to citizenship, persons who, by the supreme law of the land, are incapable of becoming citizens; and their votes have been used to inaugurate a new policy, hostile to the South, and destructive of its beliefs and safety."

In a letter encouraging Texas to secede and join the Confederate States, Louisiana Commissioner George Williamson was even more explicit.
He argued that the Confederacy was needed “to preserve the blessings of African slavery” and that the Confederate states “are bound together by the same necessity and determination to preserve African slavery.”

Many other states made similar arguments, consistently pointing to slavery and white supremacy, in their cases for secession.

These statements leave no doubt that the South fought in the Civil War to protect the institutions of white supremacy and, in particular, slavery.

In fact, Confederate symbolism, particularly the flag, only reemerged in US culture as a backlash to the rise of the civil rights movement.”

https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/8/16/16151252/confederate-statues-white-supremacists

____________________________________________________________________________________________________

You can try and make this about history and heritage, but it isn’t.
Put the statues in a museum, if you want see them and revel in the old Glory days, be my guest.
 
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Believe what you will...

"Why does America suddenly care so much about these old pieces of metal and stone?

The current battle actually goes back to a mass shooting in 2015, when self-described white supremacist Dylann Roof shot and killed nine people in a predominantly black church in Charleston, South Carolina. Roof drew a lot of attention for posing with the Confederate flag in images that came out after the shooting — and that helped spur a fight within South Carolina about whether it should take down a Confederate flag that had flown at the state capitol for years. The state eventually agreed to officially take down the flag (after it was unofficially taken down by activist Bree Newsome).

Since then, many cities and states, particularly in the South, have been questioning their own Confederate symbols.

The argument is simple: The Confederacy fought to maintain slavery and white supremacy in the United States, and that isn’t something that the country should honor or commemorate in any way.

Critics argue, however, that these monuments are really about Southern pride, not commemorating a pro-slavery rebellion movement.
They argue that trying to take down the Confederate symbols works to erase part of American history.


President Donald Trump invoked such an argument on Tuesday: “This week, it is Robert E. Lee and, this week, Stonewall Jackson. Is it George Washington next? You have to ask yourself, where does it stop?” He later reiterated these arguments on Twitter, calling it “foolish” to take down Confederate monuments.

(excuse me but that is a moronic argument)

This is where the debate gets complicated, raising important questions about the US and its history: What exactly did the Confederacy stand for? And if it stood for slavery, does honoring it in effect commemorate white supremacy?

The historical record is actually pretty clear: The Confederacy was always about white supremacy, and so are the monuments dedicated to it. Much of America is now coming to terms with that — but not without a passionate, sometimes violent reaction from those who argue the statues are necessary symbols of white heritage and culture.

Of course, many people disagree that this is about erasing white history. They argue that these monuments were built originally to honor the Confederacy and the racism and white supremacy that it stood for. One of the statues in New Orleans, for example, literally celebrated a white supremacist insurgency in the city against a racially integrated police force and state militia.

In fact, most of these Confederate monuments were built during the Jim Crow era and in response to the civil rights movement — a sign that they were meant to explicitly represent white supremacy in the South.

Screen_Shot_2017_08_15_at_4.32.33_PM.png

At the center of this debate is what the Civil War was really about. The people who defend these Confederate monuments frequently argue it was really about states’ rights, while those on the other side argue that the Civil War was about slavery.

But the historical record makes it very clear that the Civil War was about slavery.
And to the extent it was about states’ rights at all, it was about a state’s right to maintain slavery.

As Ta-Nehisi Coates noted in the Atlantic, South Carolina, the first state to secede from the Union, said in its official statement that it saw any attempts to abolish slavery and grant rights to black Americans as “hostile to the South” and “destructive of its beliefs and safety”:

"A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that "Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free," and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction. This sectional combination for the submersion of the Constitution, has been aided in some of the States by elevating to citizenship, persons who, by the supreme law of the land, are incapable of becoming citizens; and their votes have been used to inaugurate a new policy, hostile to the South, and destructive of its beliefs and safety."

In a letter encouraging Texas to secede and join the Confederate States, Louisiana Commissioner George Williamson was even more explicit.
He argued that the Confederacy was needed “to preserve the blessings of African slavery” and that the Confederate states “are bound together by the same necessity and determination to preserve African slavery.”

Many other states made similar arguments, consistently pointing to slavery and white supremacy, in their cases for secession.

These statements leave no doubt that the South fought in the Civil War to protect the institutions of white supremacy and, in particular, slavery.

In fact, Confederate symbolism, particularly the flag, only reemerged in US culture as a backlash to the rise of the civil rights movement.”

https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/8/16/16151252/confederate-statues-white-supremacists

____________________________________________________________________________________________________

You can try and make this about history and heritage, but it isn’t.
Put the statues in a museum, if you want see them and revel in the old Glory days, be my guest.




Isn't that just feeding the whole race war narrative as well? which is only straw manning what the entire conflict is about irregardless about pet theories as to what prior civil wars in America might have taken place over. It's just so typical, playing the minority, race card for the justification of seemingly everything. "All lives matter"

? *shrugs*
 
Yes well, are the supposed "liberals" doing basically the same thing? again, what about crony capitalism and globalism?


There's a difference as well between globalism and international integration, but the former being primarily biased towards policies like the Trans-Pacific Partnership and Nafta; so again this has nothing to really do with liberalism at all and is really just crony capitalism at it's finest, or "Neo-liberalism" as you could term it more colloquially. Donald Trump choose not to sign the Trans-Pacific partnership so he could only make more money for himself? I'm sure he could have easily made just as much money outsourcing everything and hiring only recently immigrated foreign workers as they generally work harder for much less, whilst as well lowering manufacturing and safety regulations which only increases productivity and things like that.
 
Isn't that just feeding the whole race war narrative as well? which is only straw manning what the entire conflict is about irregardless about pet theories as to what prior civil wars in America might have taken place over. It's just so typical, playing the minority, race card for the justification of seemingly everything.

No one here is trying to start a “race war”.
Don’t put false narratives in my mouth and I won’t do it back to you, okay? ;)
It’s not about starting a “race war”.
It’s about recognizing that a “race war” already took place....the war to maintain slaves.
Those statues erected to the “heroes” of the south are not seen as heroes by most, by most accounts - are about maintaining slavery and showing the people who were not white that they still are living under the haze of racism and white supremacy.
It is quite clear if you read the history written by the states themselves what the Civil War was fought over - the right to own and maintain slavery.
A monument to that or to the leaders of the people that fought for that is insulting to say the least.

Again...put them in a museum and give them context.
 
Yes well, are the supposed "liberals" doing basically the same thing? again, what about crony capitalism and globalism?


There's a difference as well between globalism and international integration, but the former being primarily biased towards policies like the Trans-Pacific Partnership and Nafta; so again this has nothing to really do with liberalism at all and is really just crony capitalism at it's finest, or "Neo-liberalism" as you could term it more colloquially. Donald Trump choose not to sign the Trans-Pacific partnership so he could only make more money for himself? I'm sure he could have easily made just as much money outsourcing everything and hiring only recently immigrated foreign workers as they generally work harder for much less, whilst as well lowering manufacturing and safety regulations which only increases productivity and things like that.

Crony-capitalists can suck a big one.
Who do you think is arguing for that here?
Not me.

Corporate welfare is a huge reason why we can’t have nice things.
 
So you're saying two men kissing is equivalent to starting a civil war, killing thousands, in the defense of slavery?

Is your problem that you can't own black people or that you can't handle gay men?

Edit:





Nevermind, it's obviously both.

Does my post offend you? My favorite helper is a black guy and I pay him well. We talk a lot, too.
I don't want to put him up and feed him, or give him a house to live in.

Gay men? I do have an open invitation to a gay friend of mine's mansion. He likes me because I watch the river from the swing while everyone else watches porn. People used to go to his house to get high, using him and his good nature and his money. He would come check on me every now and then and fill my scotch: ask if I needed anything. Never drank more than two. One day when we were all leaving, he pulled me aside and showed me where his key was. Told me I was different from everyone else and was welcome there any time, and said I knew where the scotch was. He left me alone with his gay stuff. I can better understand someone like him, as we agreed to disagree.

He said he wanted to show me something one night, knowing how I was. I walked with him to the room filled with shag carpet where they were smoking rocks. He said "watch this". He rolled a rock onto the table, made it fall on the floor, and there were two guys in the carpet looking for it immediately. He made eye contact with me, then rubbed one of the guy's ass. Took me back in the next room, where he said they were just like whores to him. We understood each other with no challenges, no kidding, no wishes, and I would think out of respect. I respected him because he respected me. He did nothing I did not agree with in front of me.
 
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It's been white history millenium and white tv century. That's more difficult to recognize when examined from inside what is or was a dominant culture. You're not white, you're just some folks / some people. Then there are some Others, i.e. some Blacks, some Hispanics, some Asians, some Etcs. Up until recently, white history has been the only history, and white tv has been the only TV. They were just called "history" and "tv" and not given any labels, so I guess it's understandable to forget and act like there's no white history.

"What are they complaining about? They've already got their BET!"

More cultures are starting to find their voice and take a seat at the table. It's entirely appropriate in a nation of immigrants, and there shouldn't have to be any apology that it's inconvenient to start to have to watch out about stepping on toes. I'm sure it was an easier world to understand and live in when one culture was indisputably dominant, especially if you're a descendant of that culture.

I guess my point here is that nobody owes anything to minorities, but don't misinterpret the fact that they're gradually gaining due influence (and having more of a say in how communities are shaped and remembered) as some whiny demand for reparations, a weak-minded erasure of history, or a free pass.

Yes, confederate monuments are lasting symbols of oppression as they champion people who, as was stated in an earlier post, fought and killed for the right to enslave others. Were your ancestors enslaved for several generations by gay guys who were kissing in public?

Read my other post. There were more fighting for the right to live than the right to own slaves. The word bigot comes to mind. Do people really actually think everyone was fighting so they could own a slave? The word stupidity comes to mind.
 
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