The coming American civil war.

sprinkles said:
Sounds like a prime opportunity to get rid of things made to facilitate remembering the past.
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I think it depends how that's done. Not so far from where I live is a city called Coventry. It has two Cathederals right next to each other. One is a beautiful new cathedral, very futuristic for its time. Just by it is the bombed ruins of the old one.

It was never cleared away, as the cities people wanted to remember the reason for building a new one. I think they made a good choice.
 
Who knew a bunch of people bitching about my generation getting participation trophies would be so angry about removing participation statues of traitors to the union...
 
James said:
I think when any country is focused on the future, instead of the past, things improve.

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Thank you James. I just wish most of the lost here could grasp this concept.
 
Kavalan said:
Who knew a bunch of people bitching about my generation getting participation trophies would be so angry about removing participation statues of traitors to the union...
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It was never bitching at you, it was bitching at the liberal mindset that everyone is a winner just for breathing.
 
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Sloe Djinn said:
It's been white history millenium and white tv century. That's more difficult to recognize when examined from inside what is or was a dominant culture. You're not white, you're just some folks / some people. Then there are some Others, i.e. some Blacks, some Hispanics, some Asians, some Etcs. Up until recently, white history has been the only history, and white tv has been the only TV. They were just called "history" and "tv" and not given any labels, so I guess it's understandable to forget and act like there's no white history.

"What are they complaining about? They've already got their BET!"

More cultures are starting to find their voice and take a seat at the table. It's entirely appropriate in a nation of immigrants, and there shouldn't have to be any apology that it's inconvenient to start to have to watch out about stepping on toes. I'm sure it was an easier world to understand and live in when one culture was indisputably dominant, especially if you're a descendant of that culture.

I guess my point here is that nobody owes anything to minorities, but don't misinterpret the fact that they're gradually gaining due influence (and having more of a say in how communities are shaped and remembered) as some whiny demand for reparations, a weak-minded erasure of history, or a free pass.

Yes, confederate monuments are lasting symbols of oppression as they champion people who, as was stated in an earlier post, fought and killed for the right to enslave others. Were your ancestors enslaved for several generations by gay guys who were kissing in public?
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Interesting perspective But of course completely wrong. It's not "if your not white your just some other folks." It's why do you think you should have special treatment because you are not white?
 
Eventhorizon said:
Thank you James. I just wish most of the lost here could grasp this concept.
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I didn't mean that as a comment or criticism of anyone's politics or view.

I know the space race was about cold war rivalry, but Aldrin and Armstrong carried medals and commendations for Soviet cosmonauts, and left them on the moon.

The focus changed from war to exploration, and the world was a better place.
 
Eventhorizon said:
Interesting perspective But of course completely wrong. It's not "if your not white your just some other folks." It's why do you think you should have special treatment because you are not white?
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Preventing ones self from being trampled on is not special treatment. They would be ghosts if they did not ask for these things.

It is not special treatment to be included in what everybody else is allowed to have. BET programming would probably not appear on any other channels, and black history probably would not be taught without black history month.

If anything special treatment is not having to fight to be included.
 
Eventhorizon said:
It was never bitching at you, it was bitching at the liberal mindset that everyone is a winner just for breathing.
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Then why do you care that the city of Charlottesville voted to remove the statue? The local populace spoke and the neo-nazis and fascists reacted poorly.
 
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James said:
I didn't mean that as a comment or criticism of anyone's politics or view.

I know the space race was about cold war rivalry, but Aldrin and Armstrong carried medals and commendations for Soviet cosmonauts, and left them on the moon.

The focus changed from war to exploration, and the world was a better place.
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I do not know why you felt the need to post this in relation to my post.
 
sprinkles said:
Preventing ones self from being trampled on is not special treatment. They would be ghosts if they did not ask for these things.

It is not special treatment to be included in what everybody else is allowed to have. BET programming would probably not appear on any other channels, and black history probably would not be taught without black history month.

If anything special treatment is not having to fight to be included.
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While your perspective is justified and correct because it certainly does happen as you've noted on occasion, it not the only explanation for what I was talking about. I would argue is not a majority explanation either.
For my part I am arguing the side that no one is arguing and that is just as relevant if not more so.
 
Kavalan said:
Who knew a bunch of people bitching about my generation getting participation trophies would be so angry about removing participation statues of traitors to the union...
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Spot on.
 
sprinkles said:
Preventing ones self from being trampled on is not special treatment. They would be ghosts if they did not ask for these things.

It is not special treatment to be included in what everybody else is allowed to have. BET programming would probably not appear on any other channels, and black history probably would not be taught without black history month.

If anything special treatment is not having to fight to be included.
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@Eventhorizon The quote above sums up what I had been saying.

The occurrence of other cultures taking a seat at the table and starting to exert influence (with potentially conflicting viewpoints to what was once a monocultural norm) is a slowly-growing reality. Nobody is asking to be given (or graciously allowing, for that matter) special treatment. Can you explain to me more about why you seem to see this as people requesting special treatment?

As an aside, thanks for reminding me who is right and who is wrong though. I often forget that, and it's definitely what matters most in these discussions. There's obviously NO value in explaining or understanding each other's viewpoints and nobody's arguments can have some merit while also having potential weaknesses that could be further explored as opportunities for learning. The important thing is that we identify them as 100% right or 100% wrong and I appreciate your devotion to that.
 
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