The 'Evil' Function
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Why are so many people categorizing Se as 'evil'?
Se is nothing but a perceiving orientation, it doesn't judge or condemn. If at all, it should be the judging-decision functions who should be to blame on how it irritates others, since it's the one that categorizes, and divides.
That's interesting, though :/
Se is nothing but a perceiving orientation, it doesn't judge or condemn. If at all, it should be the judging-decision functions who should be to blame on how it irritates others, since it's the one that categorizes, and divides.
That's interesting, though :/
What you described there seems more of an immature usage of Se, which could be said of any other function. The Se-Ni dichotomy allows for the individual to live in the moment, and at the same time be able to foresight into the future.
Unfortunately, if most people uphold that view (not saying you do), then by their standards, everyone would be 'evil'.
Majesty
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Well Se is inferior for INJs and this is a INJ forum.
I think they think of Se the same way as I think of Si.
I don't like the Si point of view. My Ne is all like OMG must do new stuff must live new stuff must go wild yayayay when Si says the opposite: keep with what's old, look at the past to predict the future, be boring (Ne's pov), close-minded (Ne stfu) etc.
Yet, despite how much I pretend to dislike Si, I'm definitely guilty of acting like it when stressed. Then I associate this unhealthy Si behavior with "Bad!" even more
Majesty
:)
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the only active Se-dom here is chaz and yeah it's not like he's really important anyways
You didn't say it in an offensive way, you only described it as most would describe their inferior function until they've really developped it (which is usually around 40-50) =PBasically, I see Se as base and... well, stupid. (But I'm sure I look really stupid to SPs, so that makes us even). The nature of Se—to take appearances for granted, take the supposed meaning of signs as true, live in the moment, act now and reflect later, instinctively go with whatever feels good and reject whatever feels bad... It's all so contrary to everything I believe in. It seems so devoid of meaning to me, so animalistic.
Se makes me think of hedonism, excess, shallowness, lack of self control, and lemming behavior. Even though I know (mostly thanks to forums like this, not to people I meet IRL) that ESxPs are capable of being well-rounded and intelligent, sometimes I can't see how they manage to attain that when their dominant function is such a huge setback (in my eyes). I mean, if they view the world primarily through Se from the time they're little, how can they ever distinguish the truth from what they're told to believe? Not to mention they'd be so easily distracted from the truth even if they came close to it. I guess I see Se as a danger of becoming a pawn (but too busy reaping the immediate benefits of going with the flow, and being preoccupied with trivial things, to care).
It's also antithetical to any sort of morality or spirituality, the way I see it. I see Se in its pure form as a completely unsympathetic view of what is, disregarding how or why, not caring whether it's justified or not. For example, immediately writing someone off as ugly and refusing to get to know them because it disgusts you to look at them. Not sympathizing or caring that they have no control over what they look like. Completely trusting that initial response, not considering it might be unjustified. Anything other than your immediate response of pleasure or displeasure is irrelevant.
To me, Se is a threat to goodness and meaning in life. It's also a threat to my survival and my station in life. I'm keenly aware of how I fall short from an Se view, and how that would make me worthless from a purely Se perspective, and it wouldn't matter why or even if I couldn't help it. It would be a simple fact: I'm inferior, no way around it.
On top of all this, I haven't had good experiences with ESxPs in real life (an unstable mom, a back-stabbing friend, etc). The ones I've come across on typology forums are a completely different story, though.
Please please please, don't take offense at the things I've said, as I know they reflect a skewed and unhealthy perspective. I'm just being honest about an ugly aspect of myself because I was asked, and the only way I can ever grow is to put myself out there for criticism.
ESxPs are laughing at you for wasting your time on thinking so much about hidden meanings that don't exist when you can just live your life and enjoy the moment with what's real
thanks for answering
Quinlan
Right the First Time!
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It will be hard to do without offending any Se-doms on the forum. I just hope anyone reading this will keep in mind, I know these sentiments are not true, and it's bad that I feel this way, but it's how I feel regardless. -_-;
Basically, I see Se as base and... well, stupid. (But I'm sure I look really stupid to SPs, so that makes us even
Quinlan
Right the First Time!
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Well when you're talking about functions in isolation it's always an abstraction, no one really uses the functions in isolation the different functions have a moderating effect on each other of course. When you really think about it all of the functions in isolation are "evil", it's the tempering effect of using them together that makes "good" or "mature" but that answer to the thread is no fun.
Everyone has a little devil on their shoulder...
[MENTION=46]Quinlan[/MENTION] It would be great if you could explain what a healthy Se function looks like, Quinlan. I'm pretty sure this forum would learn much about what Se really is.
I'm Ni myself, and I agreed with what Seraphim said, although I wouldn't go as far as calling it 'bad' or 'evil', just a nuisance to Ni's perspective. For that reason I know my view on Se is skewed, that's why I'm asking for clarification as to how it really operates.
TinyBubbles
anarchist
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Evil? Honestly I don't see any function as inherently more evil than the others, just different, and perhaps more annoying if I'm unused to it. Te sometimes pisses me off because it often involves dismissing a whole lot of (in my mind, relevant) information, but it certainly gets things done.
Si kind of makes me feel like I'm living in the past, but in a way it's beautiful because it makes the present seem richer and multifaceted (and the perceived future by extension).
Si kind of makes me feel like I'm living in the past, but in a way it's beautiful because it makes the present seem richer and multifaceted (and the perceived future by extension).
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I was thinking about this a lot actually, I came to the same conclusion a while ago. Actually, I thought I was ENFJ at one point due to my hatred of Te. But after thinking about it for a long long long long long longlonglonglonglonglonglonglong time, i hate Si more than Te. I just... I find no justification for Si at all. At the same time, I don't hate te Si users, just the Si. Like, ugh.
edit: btw, Chaz totally like, isn't esfp. Frankly :[
I just... I find no justification for Si at all. At the same time, I don't hate te Si users, just the Si. Like, ugh.edit: btw, Chaz totally like, isn't esfp. Frankly :[
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I was thinking about this a lot actually, I came to the same conclusion a while ago. Actually, I thought I was ENFJ at one point due to my hatred of Te. But after thinking about it for a long long long long long longlonglonglonglonglonglonglong time, i hate Si more than Te.
edit: btw, Chaz totally like, isn't esfp. Frankly :[
Pretty much same here. Si will freaking annoying and probably my least liked function. I can at least understand it from a technical stand point. Te well no not at all. Their really bad when you pair them together as a ESTJ.... god help me.
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Hey Seraphim, I hope you don't mind if I dissect your post because I just don't want people reading this and leaving with certain misunderstandings.
Se is akin to this when in the inferior position. Se (or any function, for that matter) in top two positions is much more controlled. I know at least two Se-dominants who are very well-mannered, and refrain from any forms of hedonism and excess. Both of them have incredible self-control and abhor lemming behavior (which is more Je).
Se in INxJs is, however, often hedonistic, excessive, shallow, lacks self-control because the function is the least developed and is the least readily accessible. It shows up in short bursts, usually in times of stress, and is often destructive. I understand this is possibly where your distaste for Se comes from, but this is not Se in all forms.
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Se is an Extroverted Perception function, it registers the immediate surroundings, details and changes within the environment at that very instant and takes action accordingly with the help of Fi or Ti. It is not a rational function, it is not hedonistic (unless in the inferior position), it is not loud, rash, arrogant, judgmental, or any number of negative associations you might have attached to it.
Se is akin to this when in the inferior position. Se (or any function, for that matter) in top two positions is much more controlled. I know at least two Se-dominants who are very well-mannered, and refrain from any forms of hedonism and excess. Both of them have incredible self-control and abhor lemming behavior (which is more Je).
Se in INxJs is, however, often hedonistic, excessive, shallow, lacks self-control because the function is the least developed and is the least readily accessible. It shows up in short bursts, usually in times of stress, and is often destructive. I understand this is possibly where your distaste for Se comes from, but this is not Se in all forms.
Not Se. Possibly Si, but definitely not Se.
I guess this is Se-based Animus speaking.
Te.
Se is not a judgment (rational) function, it's a perception (irrational) function. What you're describing is a rational process.
Te.
Pi dominance, more Si.
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Se is an Extroverted Perception function, it registers the immediate surroundings, details and changes within the environment at that very instant and takes action accordingly with the help of Fi or Ti. It is not a rational function, it is not hedonistic (unless in the inferior position), it is not loud, rash, arrogant, judgmental, or any number of negative associations you might have attached to it.
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Just want to post a little about what Se means to me in response to [MENTION=933]Seraphim[/MENTION]. I'm really not offended though just Se is my favourite function and I'd feel bad if I didn't defend it a little.
To me Se is simply about "in the now" thinking and feeling. SPs are lovers of experiences and are willing to give anything a go once. While this may seem hedonistic, our Se is usually developed in a way that we're able to control it, and as such allow our judgement functions to guide our actions. An SP wouldn't willingly hurt someone just for a cheap thrill unless they were really underdeveloped. Se is a perception function, and like all the other perception functions it won't make decisions or *ahem* "judgements" on anything.
Se only allows us to see the world, but it does this well. It's probably the most realistic of the perception functions as it deals with concrete truths in the moment. Abstract meanings mean very little to us. In terms of art this can make us the best and most honest critics. A compliment from an SP should be held with great value.
I love Se as it allows me to see things how they are and live in the moment. It can be a really fun function since your world exists with you so to speak. If you're having a good time, you feel like you've always had a good time, if you're not it will push you to seek something to have fun with.
Also it can give you jedi like reflexes.
Oh like you can type.
To me Se is simply about "in the now" thinking and feeling. SPs are lovers of experiences and are willing to give anything a go once. While this may seem hedonistic, our Se is usually developed in a way that we're able to control it, and as such allow our judgement functions to guide our actions. An SP wouldn't willingly hurt someone just for a cheap thrill unless they were really underdeveloped. Se is a perception function, and like all the other perception functions it won't make decisions or *ahem* "judgements" on anything.
Se only allows us to see the world, but it does this well. It's probably the most realistic of the perception functions as it deals with concrete truths in the moment. Abstract meanings mean very little to us. In terms of art this can make us the best and most honest critics. A compliment from an SP should be held with great value.
I love Se as it allows me to see things how they are and live in the moment. It can be a really fun function since your world exists with you so to speak. If you're having a good time, you feel like you've always had a good time, if you're not it will push you to seek something to have fun with.
Also it can give you jedi like reflexes.
Oh like you can type
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VH
Variable Hybrid
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Exactly this ^
The "Jedi like reflexes" is actually the result of Se and Ni.
ISTPs, ENFJs are well known for their excellent reflexes. ESTPs make amazing team based athletes, and INFJs are often talented in an area of individual physical activity like dance, martial arts, fencing, archery, etc. I think that the combination of Ti and Fe enhance this.
ISFPs and ESFPs are known for their artisitc expressiveness, or elevating a physical activity to an 'art'. ENTJs and INTJs are often capable in a technical sense, with INTJs mirroring the good at one (or a few) individual thing(s) aspect of INFJs. However, ISFPs and ENTJs also have the situational reflexes due to the Ni and Se interaction in the center of their functions.
Oh like you can type
Saru may or may not be able to type, but I agree that you're likely not an ESFP. ISTP most likely.
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Can't have one without the other. Ti can really help, but Se/Fi's aren't slouches.
I'm pretty convinced I'm a perceptive dominant, and I'm very much a P type. This narrows things down to ExxP. I've also found out while living intimately with a true introvert that I'm nothing like one.
If you do feel that you detect Ti off of me I could be an ExTP but I find this personally unlikely (but not impossible). It may just be Fi backed up by Te which would make sense if they're secondary and tertiary functions. I wouldn't rule out ExTP though just as I won't rule out ENFP.
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I absolutely do not see ESFP either. ISTP in my opinion, Chaz.
Edit: No wait, ISFP. Fuck. Not sure. Confuzzled. Shit.
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I do have a type me thread, state your reasons. I'm now knowledgable enough in MBTI that just "you seem xxxx" won't be enough to convince me. Sorry if that sounds harsh.
Edit:
Lol, I've been told by some people that I'm the only person they can't type.