The religion coexisting with science thread.

[Flavus Aquila]

My mind works in a different way. Saying that love is "important is true but only in the way we perceive ourselves.

Everything is important insofar as it exists and insofar as that existence is recognised and loved. We are capable of loving the universe, but the universe is incapable of loving us back. So even though we are a part of the universe - a very small part - we add something important to it.

 

[sprinkles]

Everything is important insofar as it exists and insofar as that existence is recognised and loved. We are capable of loving the universe, but the universe is incapable of loving us back. So even though we are a part of the universe - a very small part - we add something important to it.

If it weren't for the universe, where would we be? On an earthen disc held on the backs of turtles with a sun god and moon god chasing each other through the sky and the stars just being little points of light?

Or if it were just the earth revolving around the sun, where would we be? What would be out there? Just void and nothing?

Wouldn't that be more lonely, being the only thing around forever? To think that the sky has an end?

How can you have a place without space for the place to exist in? Would it be better for earth to just be a point and not a place?

You have what you call home and it's part of a larger world right? If it weren't for the larger world, if your home was all that existed, how would you call it home?

 

[Skarekrow]

Everything is important insofar as it exists and insofar as that existence is recognised and loved. We are capable of loving the universe, but the universe is incapable of loving us back. So even though we are a part of the universe - a very small part - we add something important to it.

I feel love when I look up at the universe…we are part of the universe…we are made of star-stuff…we were once almost infinite bits of matter that were created in a supernova billions and billions of years ago…all those bits combined to form “us”…who is absolutely unique even though we may seem all the same to some.
We are the universe…we are the universe made “conscious”…I feel loved by the universe because I am a part of it all, as are you. One day I will die and my body will return to the elements….and then our sun will explode one day and those elements will be returned to the universe once again….perhaps what was once a part of “me” will become a part of someone else someday…or maybe a single atom will help make up a living creature on another planet billions and billions of years from now.
Sorry to get all existential on you but that is truly how I feel….so I DO think that the universe is capable of loving me back.

 

[say what]

I feel love when I look up at the universe…we are part of the universe…we are made of star-stuff…we were once almost infinite bits of matter that were created in a supernova billions and billions of years ago…all those bits combined to form “us”…who is absolutely unique even though we may seem all the same to some.
We are the universe…we are the universe made “conscious”…I feel loved by the universe because I am a part of it all, as are you. One day I will die and my body will return to the elements….and then our sun will explode one day and those elements will be returned to the universe once again….perhaps what was once a part of “me” will become a part of someone else someday…or maybe a single atom will help make up a living creature on another planet billions and billions of years from now.
Sorry to get all existential on you but that is truly how I feel….so I DO think that the universe is capable of loving me back.

Very beautiful

 

[casie]

just stopped by to say you all say very strange and pretty things.

 

[say what]

Dunno...felt this needed to be posted here..

 

[Tin Man]

Dunno...felt this needed to be posted here..

Wow, just wow. This is so wrong. I can't believe children are being rewarded for ignorance.

I made dinosaurs of the fifth day, idiots.

 

[Skarekrow]

Dunno...felt this needed to be posted here..

See - http://www.alternet.org/education/results-are-america-dumb-and-road-getting-dumber

 

[Cornerstone]

Even if all of that were true...it's a bit easy for a 10 year old, no?

As for the topic, it's tricky. Not for me because I wouldn't consider any religion to be divulging more than what is pertinent to temporality.
I think that there is a lot more going on and that different dimensions and times are on top of each other in a sense.
What this means practically is that the 3rd dimension is only one where life happens for certain and is made of matter.
I can entertain the idea that there is life on other planets, the same planets we see, but not in the same dimension as us.
Perhaps entire galaxies are like this, I really can't say with any certainty. I do think there is other 3D life too, maybe even mammalian/human.

 

[sprinkles]

Dunno...felt this needed to be posted here..

This is what we get for being nice. Be accepting and inclusive and they turn around and do this shiz.

It's like frickin mold spores. Can't see it and don't usually worry about it but suddenly all your bread is green.

 

[Lark]

I am interested to know how religious people view and relate to scientific discoveries within the world around them. My goal (cross my fingers) is to have a real discussion here without falling into the trap of well, if I need to put it to words its already failed. So that said, let me start.

I have to assume that religious people see the latest scientific discoveries of our age. As an example it was not that long ago out milky way galaxy was known of and it was assumed there were other galaxy's but not known. Now that we know when we look we cant see the edge of space and what we can see is full of other galaxies, how does your perception of your god account for this. How does it account for the vastness of space and we small humans essentially floating on a piece of dust across a literally endless desert of stars? In other words, why all the space for such a small thing?

There's no dichotomy between science and religion, neither of them properly understood are anathema to one another and they shouldnt be treated as such, these things are stupid and perpetuated by proponents or members of each group its an unfortunate legacy of the past but its something which gets renewed and refreshed all the time, born completely anew with a changed relationship to the original or bygone conflicts which remain remembered or half remembered and half imagined.

 

[Lark]

Dunno...felt this needed to be posted here..

why?

what's meant?

Surely not that its representative of all religious thinkers or teaching? Its not even representative of all Christian thinking and teaching.

 

[say what]

why?

what's meant?

Surely not that its representative of all religious thinkers or teaching? Its not even representative of all Christian thinking and teaching.

I think this highlights the thinking that science and religion can't co-exist.

 

[Eventhorizon]

I have to ask. If someone came to you tomorrow and said they had found the secret to immortality, that everyone on earth was being offered it for free, would you accept? Naturally you could still be hit by a bus and die, but old age is no longer a concern. What would you choose?

Oh and is saying no to the offer the same thing as committing suicide?

 

[Lark]

I think this highlights the thinking that science and religion can't co-exist.

By the religionists or by science fandom?

I tend to find that examples of lousy religion are seized upon pretty easily as evidence of the intractable differences and, usually, the need of suppression of religion, particularly from schooling.

The irony is that whatever and however religionists seek to school their kids the pop culture of celebrity liberalism, secularism and atheism can overturn it all overnight, its maybe not a good sign, what a celeb can overturn can in turn be overturned by another celeb but you know.

 

[Lark]

I have to ask. If someone came to you tomorrow and said they had found the secret to immortality, that everyone on earth was being offered it for free, would you accept? Naturally you could still be hit by a bus and die, but old age is no longer a concern. What would you choose?

Oh and is saying no to the offer the same thing as committing suicide?

I'd have to question what was meant by immortality though, is it longevity? Is it some sort of cryogenics? Is it rejuvenation? What?

I personally would welcome all those things but I wouldnt see them as immortality per se. I wouldnt see declining it as suicide no but a free choice.

Its something I would take up, any innovation at all in my price range, including cures for diabetes type two of which I'm afflicted, I'd totally invest in because I am not physically or mentally even pushing the limits of potentiality yet and I'm in my mid thirties.

 

[say what]

By the religionists or by science fandom?

I tend to find that examples of lousy religion are seized upon pretty easily as evidence of the intractable differences and, usually, the need of suppression of religion, particularly from schooling.

The irony is that whatever and however religionists seek to school their kids the pop culture of celebrity liberalism, secularism and atheism can overturn it all overnight, its maybe not a good sign, what a celeb can overturn can in turn be overturned by another celeb but you know.

So...you're saying that if your kid went to school, and was taught this instead of the facts of science which refute this, that you would be okay?

science and religion can coexist. Religion shouldn't be brought into the public education system period. Public schools are multicultural, where a variety of backgrounds, faiths, ethnicities, and cultures coexist to understand the world around them. Teaching secular knowledge based on a single doctrine is inappropriate...not to mention it's wrong on many levels. Firstly, facts support other origins of humans and the earth. Secondly, it doesn't support a child integrating into a world where Christianity is not the only faith. What will these children do when they go to college? Or want a real job?

I shutter to think how this line of education is closing doors for them.

Edit: I'm not against teaching children the Bible...but I don't think it should be at the expense of preparing them for the outside world.

 

[Eventhorizon]

Science and religion do coexist with in me. Trust me I have tried as hard as I can to accept only science as the truth of our universe but every time I get close to this, I become so depressed its dangerous. I am still a full blood atheist in that I do not believe in "gods" even though I do believe something could be responsible for having created all that we know.

HOWEVER, the definition of religion here is at play. My religion does not resemble anyone else's I have ever heard. While mine is small, I very much want\have to believe the human heart has meaning and worth.

 

[Lark]

So...you're saying that if your kid went to school, and was taught this instead of the facts of science which refute this, that you would be okay?

science and religion can coexist. Religion shouldn't be brought into the public education system period. Public schools are multicultural, where a variety of backgrounds, faiths, ethnicities, and cultures coexist to understand the world around them. Teaching secular knowledge based on a single doctrine is inappropriate...not to mention it's wrong on many levels. Firstly, facts support other origins of humans and the earth. Secondly, it doesn't support a child integrating into a world where Christianity is not the only faith. What will these children do when they go to college? Or want a real job?

I shutter to think how this line of education is closing doors for them.

Edit: I'm not against teaching children the Bible...but I don't think it should be at the expense of preparing them for the outside world.

I was schooled right through until I was seventeen in roman catholic schools, I never encountered creationism until I met protestant evangelists at the age of seventeen in a multi-faith secular further and higher education institute, I didnt encounter sectarianism or hatred for people based upon their religion until I was at technical college too.

Not only was there no creationist agenda, which is a very niche, very minority position within Christianity let alone all the abrahamic faiths or other faiths even if its something which is much bigger in the culture wars in the US, but there was nothing what so ever in a roman catholic school liable to make living with other religions or people with no religion a problem.

There wasnt any closing of the minds of anyone or any of the other nightmares which keep secular liberals awake at night and, respectfully, if there is any closing of minds going on its generally been the work of aggressive secularists and liberals.

 

[Eventhorizon]

I was schooled right through until I was seventeen in roman catholic schools, I never encountered creationism until I met protestant evangelists at the age of seventeen in a multi-faith secular further and higher education institute, I didnt encounter sectarianism or hatred for people based upon their religion until I was at technical college too.

Not only was there no creationist agenda, which is a very niche, very minority position within Christianity let alone all the abrahamic faiths or other faiths even if its something which is much bigger in the culture wars in the US, but there was nothing what so ever in a roman catholic school liable to make living with other religions or people with no religion a problem.

There wasnt any closing of the minds of anyone or any of the other nightmares which keep secular liberals awake at night and, respectfully, if there is any closing of minds going on its generally been the work of aggressive secularists and liberals.

Ah....wait.

My brothers son goes to catholic school and they say the exact same thing about what hes being taught. And yet I see his school assignments along with other things he brings home on occasion show and talk of Jesus. So while they may teach of sciences, to an extent I do not know, the mere fact they push this religion in this way means hes being taught explicitly there is only one "god" and that everything else is incorrect.

Put simply, though no one will ever admit it, its a very fundamental form of brainwashing.