Thoughts on child beauty pageants?

Those children should be rolling around in mud catching frogs or something natural like that. There's an undeniable sexual element to it, and that does disturb me.
 
Pristinegirl said:
I completely agree and your take on the father is also very apparent yet are kept silent. A girl gaines her sense of self from her father, also I did not know that about the mother =) I am sorry you had to go through that of dieting at such a young age, personally I am familiar with it as my father would raise his voice and tell me to eat less. Also he would tell me to excersice and play outside more.

Furthermore very well read, The Jon Benett Ramsey case was so evil. Also I like Drew Barrymore, great actor with the most innocent roles, although in real life she was insano.

I wonder what their views are? what they consider important? what makes them tick? are they the typical stereoptype we would presume them to become? Do they sleep around?
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Meh, it was what it was, and I'm still working through the issues. It's amazing though that it can take decades and *decades* to try and dig from that mess. I think therapy can help as long as therapy doesn't become the crutch.

As to the mother/daughter dynamic, that's one guess. But a critical mother can cause a girl to have multiple problems as well - but I think it can be worse for the girl if the father is the more critical parent.
 
I have no prob with her competing if she is an honest person about it. I think a lot of those girls just play the part, and act different after they win. I don't think it should be her life either. I would talk it over with her I have known girls that have done pageants and modeling. I had a friend who was a model for vogue and she was just fine to hang with, really a nice girl. Although 8 months out of the year she was working in Japan and she said it was a tiresome job at times.
 
I have a presentation on this tomorrow and I'm bringing in an input quote:

One mother noted that the reason for her child to attend was:
"She learns skills such as going out in a crowd, not to be shy, and to be herself while people are watching and focusing on her"

What do you think about this? Initially are they forced to be extroverts?
 
..... that is awful. As if the education system wasn't sufficient to instill a sense of inadequacy in individuals. This is particularly terrible:
[SIZE=Default]"I want my child to be aware that there's going to be somebody better than her. It's a hard thing to learn, it was for me, and I want her to start early."

She wants her child to start comparing herself others early? I think these things just set up unrealistic expectations for small children when they are most vulnerable (imagine the implications for later in life).
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[SIZE=Default]"She learns skills such as going out in a crowd, not to be shy, and to be herself while people are watching and focusing on her"

Well, I watched the video, and it was pretty bad. The sexual objectification of toddlers: it is every pedophiles dream come true.

I forgot to mention this: I also see these things as the imposing of extroverted values on everyone. Many people act like you have to be extremely extroverted to really be successful in life.
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Pristinegirl said:
I have a presentation on this tomorrow and I'm bringing in an input quote:

One mother noted that the reason for her child to attend was:
"She learns skills such as going out in a crowd, not to be shy, and to be herself while people are watching and focusing on her"

What do you think about this? Initially are they forced to be extroverts?
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I think it could cause them to be internally extremely introverted. Do you know? Like a Dr Jeckel and Mr Hyde thing. "You have to put on this face and this facade to please your mommy and or poppy, but this is really not your true face?" - It does seem to send really confused and mixed messages to me. Like it would cause a dichotomy in them.
 
It's tough. I for one think that discouraging this activity in the lives of children who want to participate in this sort of competition is bad parenting. Though I don't plan on becoming a parent, If I ever was in that sort of position I'd want to expose my children to all sorts of activities.

But would I decide to put my 2 or 3 year old in a beauty pageant when they are unable to fully comprehend what they are getting into? No. I don't believe in what it teaches young children. It's bad enough that society expects women to primp in order to attract the opposite sex. I'm not going to raise a child into that sort of thinking. Attractiveness is shallow and perhaps myself not being able to relate to that core aspect of human life is the reason why I believe it.

But if there are social, emotional and physical benefits to my child's health than sure. Whatever they want to do.
 
slant said:
It's tough. I for one think that discouraging this activity in the lives of children who want to participate in this sort of competition is bad parenting. Though I don't plan on becoming a parent, If I ever was in that sort of position I'd want to expose my children to all sorts of activities.

But would I decide to put my 2 or 3 year old in a beauty pageant when they are unable to fully comprehend what they are getting into? No. I don't believe in what it teaches young children. It's bad enough that society expects women to primp in order to attract the opposite sex. I'm not going to raise a child into that sort of thinking. Attractiveness is shallow and perhaps myself not being able to relate to that core aspect of human life is the reason why I believe it.

But if there are social, emotional and physical benefits to my child's health than sure. Whatever they want to do.
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Although this concerns the fact that most children in the pageant field, started out at age 0, literally!! So they were never able to attain a self to their willpower, instead it was prescribed and forced onto them.
 
Pristinegirl said:
Although this concerns the fact that most children in the pageant field, started out at age 0, literally!! So they were never able to attain a self to their willpower, instead it was prescribed and forced onto them.
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Well, that's not just an issue with Beauty Pageants. Most activites that a kid growing up is involved in is 'forced' on them.

Parents get five year olds on soccer teams, church starts from birth and bad eating habits like carbonation consumption are started that early too. So, the issue really isn't Beauty Pageants I would say. The issue is parenting, because they wouldn't be bad if they were handled in appropriate ways.

A parent who encourages their child to do their best and be a good sport when the lose is no different from a basketball coach.
 
I'd be concerned, if anything, about a beauty pageant putting the child in danger and/or increasing their susceptability to being hit on by perverts. Additionally, I think that a pageant could cause the child to develop superficiality (though that may be inaccurate, I just see it as a possibility) and/or project the idea of beauty onto something that is soley physical and external to themselves.
 
slant said:
Well, that's not just an issue with Beauty Pageants. Most activites that a kid growing up is involved in is 'forced' on them.

Parents get five year olds on soccer teams, church starts from birth and bad eating habits like carbonation consumption are started that early too. So, the issue really isn't Beauty Pageants I would say. The issue is parenting, because they wouldn't be bad if they were handled in appropriate ways.

A parent who encourages their child to do their best and be a good sport when the lose is no different from a basketball coach.
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Actually this is just a small component of a bigger picture, I had this discussion the other day that this revolves around sports and such as well. We could philosophisize it into million pieces but I chose to focus and maintain the focus on this aspect of 'beauty'. Hence then there is the media, hollywood, and ideals etc etc etc. =)

It should be mentioned that they are not judged on natural beauty as all is painted and extended.

Zero Angel said:
I'd be concerned, if anything, about a beauty pageant putting the child in danger and/or increasing their susceptability to being hit on by perverts. Additionally, I think that a pageant could cause the child to develop superficiality (though that may be inaccurate, I just see it as a possibility) and/or project the idea of beauty onto something that is soley physical and external to themselves.
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Actually I see where you are going, and I agree it would make them more prone to be shallow and emphasise outer appearance. If they win, they are likely to feel attractive only if the are promted up like that whereas if they loose it has devistating effects on the childs self-esteem. So either way it is for the worse (unless it's for honest fun)

According to Freud, excessive mirroring such as when the children practice 'smiling' leads to the neurosis, Narcissism.
 
It's gross to me.

That isn't the way I would want a daughter to be brought up.
Thinking that looking good is the only way to power and that that power is the only meaningful thing in the end.
 
Power is the only meaningful thing in the world

The power to save, the power to change. Those are the only real powers that exist.
 
There are other things just as meaningful if not more meaningful than power.
 
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Actually there is love and empathy too but when it comes down to it if those are the only powers one's got, then the risk of being overrun by hyenas is so big. Therefore essentially recognition along with power is the only thing that distinguishes one from another, which in my opinion is horrible. But that seems like the case :(
 
These kids from an early age are competing against each other on the basis of their physical appearance only - not withstanding clothes, dieting etc their appearance is essentially un-earned, it's not worked for. It's not like a child learning to play the violin and competing with other musical kids. I fail to understand why it would be a desirable thing to put kids in an environment where it is their looks that determin their rewards and determins their status amongst their peers. They haven't done anything to deserve that - they were simply born looking a certain way, even if that has been 'enhansed' by parents. In my view it is simply representative of a society more concerned with looks and the surface impression than actual talent, ability and what someone can contribute to that society through their creativity. Also its it not more about the parents showing off the child in an immature one-upmanship way as they might with a new car or extra holiday to their neighbours?

Overall, I dont get it as it's a foreign concept to me, we dont have such things in my country (mostly because if we did people would go crazy saying they must surely be a pedophiles paradise...)
 
I find it completely vile on many levels as well. From the sexual undertones as mentioned earlier to the girls seemingly almost roped into these events. That brings me to my contribution of the discussion.

The mothers.

I've seen documentaries on the childhood pageants. I look back on the Jon Benet Ramsey story (I thought of it too like Arbygil). Jon Benet, if reports are right didn't enjoy the whole pageant thing nearly as much as believed. It was her mother that was pushing the whole thing. Which leads me to motive. Why would a mother do that to her child?

Is the mother getting some vindication or feeling she's fullfiling some great purpose parading her child all made up? Is she living a life she wished she'd had? Is this a reverse of the Father who wishes his son to be the star quarterback? It's a fascinating question to me. I'd like to understand what motivates these mothers to do this from a psychological standpoint.

All that said, I can't completely throw a stone here. I'm not opposed to pagaents which keep the faux sexuality, the forced adult look and vasoline on teeth smiles in check. If it's innocent and keeps the children... children. I will say the video offends my value system. I should almost go on my university library and see if there are studys of childhood pageants participants such as this and how they grew up. My instinct is at very least the girls are being taught superficiality at the expense of developing their soul and breeding the type of girl who picked on me as a child.

Additional thought, I agree that the mother's are completely and utterly failing their daughters as role models. The message this type of pageant sends is 'looks win'. I don't care how the one mother justifies it.
 
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