Trump will win again

@Deleted member 16771

https://www.nationalguard.mil/About-the-Guard/Army-National-Guard/About-Us/

I would assume Trump would have control over the national guard if he invoked the insurrection clause but for incidents within the states normally the governor has to call them out
Each state, most territories and the District of Columbia has its own National Guard, as provided for by the Constitution of the United States.

The National Guard has a unique dual mission that consists of both Federal and State roles. For state missions, the governor, through the state Adjutant General, commands Guard forces. The governor can call the National Guard into action during local or statewide emergencies, such as storms, fires, earthquakes or civil disturbances.

In addition, the President of the United States can activate the National Guard for participation in federal missions. Examples of federal activations include Guard units deployed to Kosovo and the Sinai for stabilization operations, and units deployed to the Middle East and other locations in the war on terrorism. When federalized, Guard units are commanded by the Combatant Commander of the theatre in which they are operating.
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Reason said:
@Deleted member 16771

https://www.nationalguard.mil/About-the-Guard/Army-National-Guard/About-Us/

I would assume Trump would have control over the national guard if he invoked the insurrection clause but for incidents within the states normally the governor has to call them out
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@Reason it's interesting that you're focusing on the National Guard here when you know that my preferred option was for the President to have adopted a conciliatory, leaderlike approach.

I think you're aware that Trump doesn't actually possess the qualities to have gone out there and listened to folks, delivered a speech or two, and generally acted as their leader.

I think the culture of the office of President is also partly to blame, since the high level of security accorded to it disconnects it from the people in a tremendous way. It must simply be a pain in the ass to organise a million-dollar (or whatever tye figure is) motorcade every time you want to go somewhere.

The office itself is simply too remote from the people, though that hasn't really stopped incumbents with real leadership qualities getting out there in the past.

The problem is that for a lot of issues, the President isn't technically responsible and doesn't 'have to' respond. However, people don't give a fuck about that. The President is the de facto king, and that's how people want them to behave - as reassuring symbols of leadership and blessing. I'm reminded of the death of Princess Diana, where the Queen didn't technically have to respond, but the people were so pissed off that she wasn't saying anything about it that she was practically forced to make a public statement. The same was true when our own riots kicked off in 2011 - people were asking where the fuck the Prime Minister was (he was on holiday) and were pissed off that he took his time to come back and get on the ground as soon as possible.

In crises, people don't care about the technicalities of office, they just want a leader; they just want their anthropological needs satisfied by a reassuring symbol and figurehead.

Trump doesn't inhabit this energy because he's a coward, and so certain people just don't feel heard or cared about, inflaming situations that need not have been.

The man is weak. The man is inept. The man lacks knowledge, presence and diplomatic skill. He is unaware of the exigencies and goals of geopolitical strategy in addition to the proper role of a domestic figurehead. He tarnishes the dignity of the office day by day and erodes confidence in the United States itself both at home and abroad.

I respect your opinion, @Reason, and of course it's not without merit, but I think you're at risk of overlooking some glaring realities here because your focus seems to be on combating the growing insanity of fringe elements within the American left.

To me, that means you've fallen for the trick of every populist who screams about communists or Jews or Gypsies or Armenians or whatever.

'Look at these Antifa nutters!' and everything else the man says is just distraction and demagoguery.
 
Deleted member 16771 said:
@Reason it's interesting that you're focusing on the National Guard here when you know that my preferred option was for the President to have adopted a conciliatory, leaderlike approach.

I think you're aware that Trump doesn't actually possess the qualities to have gone out there and listened to folks, delivered a speech or two, and generally acted as their leader.

I think the culture of the office of President is also partly to blame, since the high level of security accorded to it disconnects it from the people in a tremendous way. It must simply be a pain in the ass to organise a million-dollar (or whatever tye figure is) motorcade every time you want to go somewhere.

The office itself is simply too remote from the people, though that hasn't really stopped incumbents with real leadership qualities getting out there in the past.

The problem is that for a lot of issues, the President isn't technically responsible and doesn't 'have to' respond. However, people don't give a fuck about that. The President is the de facto king, and that's how people want them to behave - as reassuring symbols of leadership and blessing. I'm reminded of the death of Princess Diana, where the Queen didn't technically have to respond, but the people were so pissed off that she wasn't saying anything about it that she was practically forced to make a public statement. The same was true when our own riots kicked off in 2011 - people were asking where the fuck the Prime Minister was (he was on holiday) and were pissed off that he took his time to come back and get on the ground as soon as possible.

In crises, people don't care about the technicalities of office, they just want a leader; they just want their anthropological needs satisfied by a reassuring symbol and figurehead
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I answered the way I did because if I was president I wouldn't have gone out there either. And your opinions about what Trump should have done symbolically are just that. Your opinions, not mine.

Deleted member 16771 said:
I respect your opinion, @Reason, and of course it's not without merit, but I think you're at risk of overlooking some glaring realities here because your focus seems to be on combating the growing insanity of fringe elements within the American left.

To me, that means you've fallen for the trick of every populist who screams about communists or Jews or Gypsies or Armenians or whatever.

'Look at these Antifa nutters!' and everything else the man says is just distraction and demagoguery.
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You respect my opinion and yet you misrepresent them in this way. I highly doubt you do respect them at all then.
 
“I don't believe I said that Trump (second term I assume you mean) does equal less riots. I said that the riots make me not like the Democrats because they've been downplaying them for months.”

Reason already said it Hos. He doesn’t think Trump can stop the riots, he just doesn’t like how Democrats are talking about it. On liberal news all you can find is stories about Right wing extremists- Proud boys and Bogaloos causing problems. All you can find on conservative news is stories about Antifa. People have been killed last week on both sides. No one has the whole truth, all people have is the garbage fed to them from their side’s propagandist bullshit. No one cares what is right, true, or likely to change or fix things. All anyone cares about is finding a reason or a bullshit news clip without credible evidence or an extremely biased version of event, to jam down the throats of the liberals or conservatives they are debating in the moment.

Our absolute inability to rise above these tendencies and self satisfaction is why America is doomed. No one cares about the actual issues, all anyone cares about is shitting on “the other side”. Case and point- not once in this discussion has anyone mentioned finding a way to solve the issue that black people in America are getting murdered by the police. Guess what will stop the legitimate protests that are being exploited by those two groups?

The vote isn’t for someone to solve a problem, the vote is about who hates who. It’s really sad. Reason said it plain as day, and he’s far from alone in it, he doesn’t think trump can fix it- he just doesn’t like the democrats because he thinks they have down played it. They haven’t btw, they are just blaming conservatives. And around and around we go. Dying and shitting on each other and getting absolutely nothing accomplished. It’s the dumbest saddest shit I have ever seen. America is fucked because we have turned completely against each other and are willing to die and suffer for pettiness and shit from media and lying politicians.
 
The mayors and governors in these areas are the ones with the power to stop the riots. We have a separation of powers in this country, the president can't just do whatever he wants. If he had gone down there he just would have been accused of political grandstanding on George Floyd's grave.
 
Reason said:
The mayors and governors in these areas are the ones with the power to stop the riots. We have a separation of powers in this country, the president can't just do whatever he wants. If he had gone down there he just would have been accused of political grandstanding on George Floyd's grave.
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What are they supposed to do Reason? Are they supposed to force people to stop peacefully protesting where these assholes hide out to cause the problems? To protest is Constitutional right as solid as gun ownership. Are they supposed to take guns away? Are they supposed to unleash the military on their own citizens? What would you do as a Mayor or Governor. Enact martial law and strip the rights from your people? Most of those Mayors and Governors are trying to deal with root issue to calm the protests so that these criminals and hoodlems from far left and far right driving into their cities and causing crime and riots, can’t hide and exploit the protests. What would you do Reason?

I would also mention- having served in the military for 9 years- using American troops against fellow Americans is an EXTREMELY dangerous game. It is hard to imagine fully the impact of that move. It is NOT a trivial thing and I don’t blame any government entity for being extremely reluctant to do so.
 
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seems to me that at this point if you support trump it is because of his racism. He had accomplished nothing, and the country is in ruin. . 180000 and counting are dead, and there is still no hint of a plan to deal with it. All of his campaign rhetoric is about race bating and instilling fear. . only he can save the country. . excuse me, he made this mess. . and he wants to blame Biden? I have avoided the political talk because it is so inflammatory, but if you support a man who is of the fiber of trump I question you. I know the next call will be the cry of fake news. .it's how it gets deflected. so there is no point in the discussion. . his followers are in a cult. . where truth and logic, facts and reality don't matter. . this is the administration that began with the term "alternative facts". .and it continues. .
 
Trump escapes accountability for all of this; the bumbling response to the pandemic, heightened racial tensions... He's not responsible for anything-- yet he's the only one who can fix the country's problems or somehow prevent us from sliding even further into the division and chaos that has defined his nearly 4 years in office.
 
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I think people need to stop calling the riots, "peaceful protests". It makes people who say that sound like gaslighting lunatic partisans.

It think Trump will probably win, not because he's a great president, but because the alternative seems so dishonest, manipulative, insane, and oblivious.
 
This is the kind of thing which I'm talking about in the post above.

Vice interviewed the crazy Democrat voter who walked up behind a Republican voter and shot him.

Apparently, this thug was killed by police today, while trying to arrest him.
 
Sometimes Yeah said:
I think people need to stop calling the riots, "peaceful protests". It makes people who say that sound like gaslighting lunatic partisans.

It think Trump will probably win, not because he's a great president, but because the alternative seems so dishonest, manipulative, insane, and oblivious.
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That's your hope, not an impartial prediction.

This whole thread is a mess: "Trump will win again". Most models don't favor Trump at all.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/
 
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He's spent the past few years disparaging peaceful protest by trying to conflate peaceful protest on police brutality with anti-American sentiment. He's not done anything to help the situation. If he had kept his mouth shut and said literally nothing we might be better off- instead he has politicized the issue. Now he is defending the shooter in Kenosha. He can't help but fan the flames and stoke division.
 
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acd said:
He's spent the past few years disparaging peaceful protest by trying to conflate peaceful protest on police brutality with anti-American sentiment. He's not done anything to help the situation. If he had kept his mouth shut and said literally nothing we might be better off- instead he has politicized the issue. Now he is defending the shooter in Kenosha. He can't help but fan the flames and stoke division.
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I posted on this thread earlier that I think he will win, not because he's a great president, but because of the behaviour of his opposition.

At this point it just looks like they're being as fair about the Kenosha kid, as they were with the boy wearing the red hat in Washington.

If only his opposition had kept quiet and carefully factual/honest, Trump would have sunk his own boat years ago.
 
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Sometimes Yeah said:
I posted on this thread earlier that I think he will win, not because he's a great president, but because of the behaviour of his opposition.

At this point it just looks like they're being as fair about the Kenosha kid, as they were with the boy wearing the red hat in Washington.

If only his opposition had kept quiet and carefully factual/honest, Trump would have sunk his own boat years ago.
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everything about trump is great, he will verify this
 
XXXXX said:
everything about trump is great, he will verify this
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He's truly great at trolling and at mocking his opponents' flaws. To this day I can't see Jeb Bush without thinking he's low-energy, or Hillary Clinton without thinking she's crooked.

I cracked up when "Pocahontas" Warren addressed the native American conference.

Trump's insults just stick like super glue.
 
Dopamine said:
What are they supposed to do Reason? Are they supposed to force people to stop peacefully protesting where these assholes hide out to cause the problems? To protest is Constitutional right as solid as gun ownership. Are they supposed to take guns away? Are they supposed to unleash the military on their own citizens? What would you do as a Mayor or Governor. Enact martial law and strip the rights from your people? Most of those Mayors and Governors are trying to deal with root issue to calm the protests so that these criminals and hoodlems from far left and far right driving into their cities and causing crime and riots, can’t hide and exploit the protests. What would you do Reason?

I would also mention- having served in the military for 9 years- using American troops against fellow Americans is an EXTREMELY dangerous game. It is hard to imagine fully the impact of that move. It is NOT a trivial thing and I don’t blame any government entity for being extremely reluctant to do so.
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You don't have to arrest people who are just holding signs you just have to arrest people who try to shoot and stab others. And no catch and release for anyone gets pinched. Hold them.
https://www.wearegreenbay.com/news/...-national-guard-assistance-from-other-states/

The Wisconsin governor called in the national guard after things started getting out of hand. That was a good move considering the severity of the crisis. And low and behold, order is restored to kenosha.

Obviously the best thing you can do at a national level is designate antifa as terrorists, which Trump is currently trying to do.
 
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