Trump will win again

I think you're fine @philostam
But it's prudent and commendable to try to lower the intensity of this topic in whatever ways we're able to
 
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"All the evidence suggests this is not “a baseless urban legend.” Rather, it is a packaged neo-Nazi attack designed to sow violence against migrant communities.
According to a local leader in the Haitian community, while there were tensions, none of that boiled up until a car accident involving a legal Haitian ended up killing a school boy.

What were things like over the course of the first couple of years that you were living in Springfield? Was the community welcoming?

We were just here working peacefully and caring about our family and all of this. The community was okay. There was still a group of people in Springfield who saw the coming of the Haitians as a threat. But normally, generally, the community was so open with us. We had so many people working with us and things like this. Until the recent incident of the recent bus accident and people have been building up on that just to tell bad news about us.

So you think the bus accident was when things really started to change?

Yeah, it triggered it. There was some tension before but not like it came after the bus accident.
A neo-Nazi group responded to that by organizing a march in the town. And then one of them created a conflict at a local city commission.
Late last month, a neo-Nazi group called Blood Ties organized a march outside the Springfield Jazz and Blues Festival. At the Aug. 26 city commission meeting, Drake R. Berentz took credit for organizing that march while introducing himself via an anti-Black pseudonym. He was promptly removed from the hearing after stating, “Crime and savagery will only increase with every Haitian you bring in.”
A national far right network with intimate ties to Trump’s team start magnifying disinformation from Springfield.
Shortly after, racist claims aimed at the state’s Haitian community began to surge online, boosted by known disinformation outlets and eventually echoed by GOP officials.


The unfounded narrative that Haitian immigrants were eating pets reached national attention after being repeated this week first by Republican vice presidential nominee J.D. Vance (the junior senator from Ohio) and then his running mate Donald Trump at the latter’s debate with Kamala Harris.

The origins of the conspiracy theory remain largely unknown, but a New Lines investigation has identified several points of amplification from known spreaders of disinformation. Its fairly rapid spread reveals how extremist narratives travel from the fringes of the internet into the mouths of politicians, seemingly overnight.

Less than a week earlier, End Wokeness, an account on X (formally Twitter) that has been connected in the past to the white nationalist Jack Posobiec, shared a Facebook post alleging that Haitian immigrants were eating pets in Ohio. The claim was quickly repeated by the political commentator and founder of Turning Point USA, Charlie Kirk, during his broadcast hosted on Steve Bannon’s media network.

Kirk commented that this brought the United States “one step closer to the great replacement,” referring to a white nationalist narrative that claims non-white immigrants are replacing white people in the U.S. The narrative was originally obscure but has been increasingly embraced by the GOP mainstream in recent years.

Kirk is a close associate of Posobiec. Both his claims and the End Wokeness account’s tweet reference a single anonymous post on a private Facebook group as proof of their claims.

This was followed up on Sept. 8, when the End Wokeness account tweeted a video from a Springfield City Commission meeting where an influencer and podcaster named Anthony Harris claimed Haitian immigrants were eating ducks in the parks. This seemingly spawned from a repurposed image of a man holding a dead Canada goose in Columbus, Ohio, taken a month before.

This entire story, then, is about creating false stories in order to stoke far right violence against immigrants. It’s not an urban legend. It is deliberate propaganda.


It is already having real effects on the Haitians in Springfield." https://www.emptywheel.net/2024/09/...etcon-his-fascist-attack-on-haitian-migrants/
Mmm, I got to push back on you about this because you provided no evidence that the lady who is being largely held responsible for the original facebook post is a neo-nazi and did this as part of neo-nazi intentions. I completely believe that after popular Republicans picked up the story and amplified it, that the neo-nazi's were spurred on by that, that's fair. But you cannot claim the origins of this was meant to do that, there is no evidence. It was some lady repeating a rumor she heard on facebook which, I don't know if you've ever been part of a facebook group for your neighborhood, but this kind of thing happens all the time. Usually people post on anon in a group but if this lady posted it on her feed because she felt comfortable, she was repeating a second hand rumor, how on earth was she supposed to know that it would gain this level of traction?

If you think Neo-Nazi's are waiting for some lady to post a rumor in order to act, you're wrong- it is just an excuse for them. They would have taken any info they could. This was just convenient. Trump repeated it during the debate because it was popular in the Republican sphere and nobody fact-checked it. Why they didn't want to fact check it, I think because yes, the motivation for wanting it to be true is emotional. It doesn't actually change the fact that there is a lot of tension currently in Springfield because of an influx of immigrants. Anyone who is saying everything in Springfield and super smooth has not watched any of their city hall meetings that you can easily find on Youtube. Personally, it does not seem the issue is that people dislike that they're Haitians or immigrants, but rather, there are way too many people entering that city at once. The city is overcrowded and this is the issue we are having with an influx of immigrants, particularly when they enter the country illegally but also increased numbers of legal immigrants who are being given temporary status due to whatever circumstances. I think a lot of the Haitians are there because of natural disasters and a lot of political issues in their country, hence the temporary protection status being granted. But we need to figure out how to distribute these new immigrants so that cities are not overburdened by them and also how to culturally integrate them into these communities. That's reasonable, isn't it?
 
 
@slant "This was just convenient. Trump repeated it during the debate because it was popular in the Republican sphere and nobody fact-checked it....I completely believe that after popular Republicans picked up the story and amplified it, that the neo-nazi's were spurred on"

I t was not convenience, it was a deliberate evocation of an untruth intended to stoke fear and hatred....., Neo-nazis were amplifying the story before popular Republicans.

".... a New Lines investigation has identified several points of amplification from known spreaders of disinformation. Its fairly rapid spread reveals how extremist narratives travel from the fringes of the internet into the mouths of politicians, seemingly overnight.

Less than a week earlier, End Wokeness, an account on X (formally Twitter) that has been connected in the past to the white nationalist Jack Posobiec, shared a Facebook post alleging that Haitian immigrants were eating pets in Ohio. The claim was quickly repeated by the political commentator and founder of Turning Point USA, Charlie Kirk, during his broadcast hosted on Steve Bannon’s media network.

Kirk commented that this brought the United States “one step closer to the great replacement,” referring to a white nationalist narrative that claims non-white immigrants are replacing white people in the U.S. The narrative was originally obscure but has been increasingly embraced by the GOP mainstream in recent years.
Kirk is a close associate of Posobiec. Both his claims and the End Wokeness account’s tweet reference a single anonymous post on a private Facebook group as proof of their claims.

This was followed up on Sept. 8, when the End Wokeness account tweeted a video from a Springfield City Commission meeting where an influencer and podcaster named Anthony Harris claimed Haitian immigrants were eating ducks in the parks. This seemingly spawned from a repurposed image of a man holding a dead Canada goose in Columbus, Ohio, taken a month before.

A few days later, Fox News host Trace Gallagher repeated these claims on his Sept. 9 evening program.

The racist narrative went viral in right-wing internet spaces, and AI-generated images of Trump holding cats flooded X. The official account of the House Judiciary Committee’s GOP majority even shared one of these images.

Known disinformation outlets like InfoWars and Zero Hedge immediately shared the claims made online. Several outfits republished the same story copied and pasted from Zero Hedge." https://newlinesmag.com/spotlight/the-origins-of-trumps-ohio-pets-conspiracy/
 
@slant "This was just convenient. Trump repeated it during the debate because it was popular in the Republican sphere and nobody fact-checked it....I completely believe that after popular Republicans picked up the story and amplified it, that the neo-nazi's were spurred on"

I t was not convenience, it was a deliberate evocation of an untruth intended to stoke fear and hatred....., Neo-nazis were amplifying the story before popular Republicans.

".... a New Lines investigation has identified several points of amplification from known spreaders of disinformation. Its fairly rapid spread reveals how extremist narratives travel from the fringes of the internet into the mouths of politicians, seemingly overnight.

Less than a week earlier, End Wokeness, an account on X (formally Twitter) that has been connected in the past to the white nationalist Jack Posobiec, shared a Facebook post alleging that Haitian immigrants were eating pets in Ohio. The claim was quickly repeated by the political commentator and founder of Turning Point USA, Charlie Kirk, during his broadcast hosted on Steve Bannon’s media network.

Kirk commented that this brought the United States “one step closer to the great replacement,” referring to a white nationalist narrative that claims non-white immigrants are replacing white people in the U.S. The narrative was originally obscure but has been increasingly embraced by the GOP mainstream in recent years.
Kirk is a close associate of Posobiec. Both his claims and the End Wokeness account’s tweet reference a single anonymous post on a private Facebook group as proof of their claims.

This was followed up on Sept. 8, when the End Wokeness account tweeted a video from a Springfield City Commission meeting where an influencer and podcaster named Anthony Harris claimed Haitian immigrants were eating ducks in the parks. This seemingly spawned from a repurposed image of a man holding a dead Canada goose in Columbus, Ohio, taken a month before.

A few days later, Fox News host Trace Gallagher repeated these claims on his Sept. 9 evening program.

The racist narrative went viral in right-wing internet spaces, and AI-generated images of Trump holding cats flooded X. The official account of the House Judiciary Committee’s GOP majority even shared one of these images.

Known disinformation outlets like InfoWars and Zero Hedge immediately shared the claims made online. Several outfits republished the same story copied and pasted from Zero Hedge." https://newlinesmag.com/spotlight/the-origins-of-trumps-ohio-pets-conspiracy/
I think the part I'm iffy about is calling Jack Posobiec a white supremacist because I can't find anything where he says he is. There are actually people who identify as members with the kkk so I find it difficult when people label people things like this without proof. If you can prove he is a member of the kkk or a known white supremacist organization that openly admits to being white supremacist then I think you're right. I just can't find it. And I think a lot of people are tired of being labeled like this simply for not being a Democrat. The left wing version of this is calling anyone they don't agree with a communist or socialist or claiming that Kamala is a Marxist just because her father teachers some of that in a college. You can see how that is frustrating and just deliberately trying to polarize issues.
 
I think the part I'm iffy about is calling Jack Posobiec a white supremacist because I can't find anything where he says he is. There are actually people who identify as members with the kkk so I find it difficult when people label people things like this without proof. If you can prove he is a member of the kkk or a known white supremacist organization that openly admits to being white supremacist then I think you're right. I just can't find it. And I think a lot of people are tired of being labeled like this simply for not being a Democrat. The left wing version of this is calling anyone they don't agree with a communist or socialist or claiming that Kamala is a Marxist just because her father teachers some of that in a college. You can see how that is frustrating and just deliberately trying to polarize issues.

Being a Marxist is great, I am one myself...Just on the side of the bourgeoisie.


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I think the part I'm iffy about is calling Jack Posobiec a white supremacist because I can't find anything where he says he is. ...

If you are cool with these guys then vote for trump and feel good.

"White nationalist Richard Spencer says Posobiec introduced himself at a bar called The Tilted Kilt, outside the August 2016 Republican National Convention (RNC) in Cleveland. Spencer suggested that Posobiec described himself as a fan of his........According to multiple witnesses, Posobiec ally Cernovich hosted the event at the Tilted Kilt and white nationalists beyond Spencer attended it. Kevin DeAnna, a propagandist who has written for a variety of white nationalist websites including VDARE and American Renaissance, attended. Nathan Damigo, founder of the now-defunct white nationalist group Identity Evropa, was also there. Posobiec has linked to VDARE’s website on Twitter before. He later expressed support for Identity Evropa’s terrorizing of Black civil rights advocate Lutze Segu in a now-deleted tweet published on June 26, 2017." https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/jack-posobiec#white-supremacists
 
If you are cool with these guys then vote for trump and feel good.

"White nationalist Richard Spencer says Posobiec introduced himself at a bar called The Tilted Kilt, outside the August 2016 Republican National Convention (RNC) in Cleveland. Spencer suggested that Posobiec described himself as a fan of his........According to multiple witnesses, Posobiec ally Cernovich hosted the event at the Tilted Kilt and white nationalists beyond Spencer attended it. Kevin DeAnna, a propagandist who has written for a variety of white nationalist websites including VDARE and American Renaissance, attended. Nathan Damigo, founder of the now-defunct white nationalist group Identity Evropa, was also there. Posobiec has linked to VDARE’s website on Twitter before. He later expressed support for Identity Evropa’s terrorizing of Black civil rights advocate Lutze Segu in a now-deleted tweet published on June 26, 2017." https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/jack-posobiec#white-supremacists
I'm an undecided voter. I am also not a white supremacist.

But, to go back to what you brought up, I do appreciate you digging up more evidence for this. I really have no idea who Posobiec is so I just was not sure. I was hoping for more of a definitive, self-identification from him. This is a little bit of the rumor mill for me and he-said she-said stuff is not the most reliable. But at least it's something, and if this is true, then I can definitely see why you're saying the intention was Neo-Nazi because he was the one who exploded this initially and must have been looking for something like this. I don't think the lady who posted it meant for it to be used this way, but yes, it does seem like Posobiec's intent was to politically weaponize it. So I appreciate you bringing that to light.
 
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"All the evidence suggests this is not “a baseless urban legend.” Rather, it is a packaged neo-Nazi attack designed to sow violence against migrant communities.
According to a local leader in the Haitian community, while there were tensions, none of that boiled up until a car accident involving a legal Haitian ended up killing a school boy.

What were things like over the course of the first couple of years that you were living in Springfield? Was the community welcoming?

We were just here working peacefully and caring about our family and all of this. The community was okay. There was still a group of people in Springfield who saw the coming of the Haitians as a threat. But normally, generally, the community was so open with us. We had so many people working with us and things like this. Until the recent incident of the recent bus accident and people have been building up on that just to tell bad news about us.

So you think the bus accident was when things really started to change?

Yeah, it triggered it. There was some tension before but not like it came after the bus accident.
A neo-Nazi group responded to that by organizing a march in the town. And then one of them created a conflict at a local city commission.
Late last month, a neo-Nazi group called Blood Ties organized a march outside the Springfield Jazz and Blues Festival. At the Aug. 26 city commission meeting, Drake R. Berentz took credit for organizing that march while introducing himself via an anti-Black pseudonym. He was promptly removed from the hearing after stating, “Crime and savagery will only increase with every Haitian you bring in.”
A national far right network with intimate ties to Trump’s team start magnifying disinformation from Springfield.
Shortly after, racist claims aimed at the state’s Haitian community began to surge online, boosted by known disinformation outlets and eventually echoed by GOP officials.


The unfounded narrative that Haitian immigrants were eating pets reached national attention after being repeated this week first by Republican vice presidential nominee J.D. Vance (the junior senator from Ohio) and then his running mate Donald Trump at the latter’s debate with Kamala Harris.

The origins of the conspiracy theory remain largely unknown, but a New Lines investigation has identified several points of amplification from known spreaders of disinformation. Its fairly rapid spread reveals how extremist narratives travel from the fringes of the internet into the mouths of politicians, seemingly overnight.

Less than a week earlier, End Wokeness, an account on X (formally Twitter) that has been connected in the past to the white nationalist Jack Posobiec, shared a Facebook post alleging that Haitian immigrants were eating pets in Ohio. The claim was quickly repeated by the political commentator and founder of Turning Point USA, Charlie Kirk, during his broadcast hosted on Steve Bannon’s media network.

Kirk commented that this brought the United States “one step closer to the great replacement,” referring to a white nationalist narrative that claims non-white immigrants are replacing white people in the U.S. The narrative was originally obscure but has been increasingly embraced by the GOP mainstream in recent years.

Kirk is a close associate of Posobiec. Both his claims and the End Wokeness account’s tweet reference a single anonymous post on a private Facebook group as proof of their claims.

This was followed up on Sept. 8, when the End Wokeness account tweeted a video from a Springfield City Commission meeting where an influencer and podcaster named Anthony Harris claimed Haitian immigrants were eating ducks in the parks. This seemingly spawned from a repurposed image of a man holding a dead Canada goose in Columbus, Ohio, taken a month before.

This entire story, then, is about creating false stories in order to stoke far right violence against immigrants. It’s not an urban legend. It is deliberate propaganda.


It is already having real effects on the Haitians in Springfield." https://www.emptywheel.net/2024/09/...etcon-his-fascist-attack-on-haitian-migrants/

The neo-Nazi group Blood Tribe, led by two former Marines, organized a protest in Springfield weeks before the presidential debate, with the aim of fanning xenophobic sentiments. The Proud Boys, designated as a terrorist group in Canada, have also allegedly descended on Springfield. These groups were fundamentally important in spreading the false accusation against Haitians about eating pets, a claim first made by a local woman who now regrets the impact her post has had on the Haitian immigrant community.

After the recent presidential debate, Christopher Pohlhaus, the leader of the Blood Tribe, celebrated on his Telegram channel that former President Trump brought attention to Springfield and emphasized the group’s influence in shaping U.S. public perception of the impact of immigration. In August, members of the Blood Tribe started to amplify the rumor about the Haitian Springfield community engaging in the eating of cats on Gab, an alt-right microblogging platform, and Telegram, an unregulated and encrypted messaging application. Ohio ranks sixth in the country for the state with the largest number of hate groups and anti-government organizations, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center. ” https://www.lawfaremedia.org/articl...is-a-microcosm-of-american-political-violence

Saying, “I think that any Jewish person who votes for a Democrat…should have their head examined.” (This is one of his go-to claims.)
Declaring that a group of neo-Nazis had some “very fine people” among it
Having dinner at Mar-a-Lago with a Holocaust denier
Saying a man known for going on antisemitic tirades had “a good heart”
Hosting a White House Hanukkah party that featured an evangelical pastor who once said Jews were going to hell
Allegedly claiming that Hitler “did some good things,” and having to be told by his then chief of staff, “Sir, you can never say anything good about the guy”
Attacking “liberal Jews” on Rosh Hashanah, one of the holiest days of the year
Telling a room full of Jewish people that Jews who work in real estate are “brutal killers” and “not nice people at all”
Suggesting Jews control the media
Reportedly saying that Jews are “only in it for themselves,” following phone calls with Jewish lawmakers
Saying Jews who vote for Democrats “hate Israel” and Judaism
Reportedly wanting his military leaders to operate like “the German generals in World War II”
Tweeting an image of Hillary Clinton’s face against a backdrop of $100 bills and a Star of David, along with the words “most corrupt candidate ever”
Using Hitler-esque rhetoric, like calling his enemies “vermin” and claiming immigrants are “poisoning the blood of our country”
Suggesting that Jews only care about money
Keeping a book of Hitler’s speeches next to his bed
Meanwhile, during his blame-the-Jews
 
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Part of the reason I am tired of hearing about the “border crisis” is because the United States is responsible for it. It’s called consequences.

Always twiddling, arming, and assassinating our neighbors to the south over the decades has led to instability, guerilla warfare, and people fleeing for their lives.

Deny democracy because you don’t like what the people chose, and you get the people instead.

You made your bed, so fucking lie in it, and if you can’t sleep, that’s on you. You chose this. You made this happen.

Cheers,
Ian
 
Right, but I'm pretty sure Kamala Harris isn't one.

I agree, I am not sure she even understands what communism/Marxism is. She is not a real person anyway, just an empty vessel for the Democratic party, that much is clear for me. I am 90% sure that Obama prepared her debate points.

But anyyyyway...Only over a month to go, I cannot wait till this is over and I don't pretend to be politics expert anymore.
 
I agree, I am not sure she even understands what communism/Marxism is. She is not a real person anyway, just an empty vessel for the Democratic party, that much is clear for me. I am 90% sure that Obama prepared her debate points.

But anyyyyway...Only over a month to go, I cannot wait till this is over and I don't pretend to be politics expert anymore.
Haha you caught that too! She was totally using his catch phrase "let's be clear"
 
Harris double majored in Poly sci and Econmics, went on to get a JD then practiced law as a prosecutor. If i were to guess I would suppose that she has a clear idea of what communism is and what Marxism is.

"But for us econ nerds at Planet Money, what is especially notable is that she majored in economics. Harris, who double-majored in political science, was apparently passionate enough about economics that she even became president of a student club called the Abram Harris Economics Society.
......
Gerald Daniels is the associate director of undergraduate studies for Howard's economics department. He says that since its founding after the Civil War, Howard has had a social mission to solve global problems, especially those facing the African diaspora and other historically oppressed peoples. Howard econ majors get the standard rigorous economics education — microeconomics, macroeconomics, econometrics and data analysis — but, he says, there's an emphasis on getting students to use economic tools to analyze and fix persistent racial inequalities (see our recent newsletter about this). For example, Daniels says, "if we're in macroeconomics, we're going to talk about why is the unemployment rate for Black Americans typically twice that of white Americans?"

With its approach to education, Howard is helping to solve a stubborn problem in the broader field of economics: a lack of diversity. "We are the No. 1 producer of Black students who go on and get their Ph.D.s in economics by far," says Omari H. Swinton, the director of graduate studies and chair of the university's economic department." https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2020/10/06/920350374/where-kamala-harris-studied-economics
I
 
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Harris double majored in Poly sci and Econmics, went on to get a JD then practiced law as a prosecutor. If i were to guess I would suppose that she has a clear idea of what communism is and what Marxism is.

"But for us econ nerds at Planet Money, what is especially notable is that she majored in economics. Harris, who double-majored in political science, was apparently passionate enough about economics that she even became president of a student club called the Abram Harris Economics Society.
......
Gerald Daniels is the associate director of undergraduate studies for Howard's economics department. He says that since its founding after the Civil War, Howard has had a social mission to solve global problems, especially those facing the African diaspora and other historically oppressed peoples. Howard econ majors get the standard rigorous economics education — microeconomics, macroeconomics, econometrics and data analysis — but, he says, there's an emphasis on getting students to use economic tools to analyze and fix persistent racial inequalities (see our recent newsletter about this). For example, Daniels says, "if we're in macroeconomics, we're going to talk about why is the unemployment rate for Black Americans typically twice that of white Americans?"

With its approach to education, Howard is helping to solve a stubborn problem in the broader field of economics: a lack of diversity. "We are the No. 1 producer of Black students who go on and get their Ph.D.s in economics by far," says Omari H. Swinton, the director of graduate studies and chair of the university's economic department." https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2020/10/06/920350374/where-kamala-harris-studied-economics
I

Yeah and JD Vance went to Yale Law School and leftists say he's an idiot and a bigot.

I will continue thinking that Kamala doesn't know anything - because that's what I see from her. She trips over any kind of economic/foreign policy question. I guess school was a looong time ago.
 
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