Turning Men Down

Turning a woman down always seems like such a big deal - it's never something casual and insignificant.

On the worst end of things, I finally go so fed up of constant phone calls, sms's, pictures, visits to my house, and letters, that I called the police on a female stalker from where I used to work. She had an absolute meltdown over it and was threatening suicide and everything.

A couple of other female stalkers I started by being polite, then more direct and finally ended up telling them to f*** off. They got the message, but again with extremely vicious attitudes.

On the lighter side of things, I have said something along the lines of "I'm very flattered, but....", or, "I think we ought to keep our relationship professional...", or other attempts at a gentle let-down. It always ends badly. So, on balance, I would rather that she come to the decision that things aren't working out and make the break - but this doesn't seem to be an easy point to come to.

As for being let down, it has only happened to me once. After a few weeks it was obvious that there was nothing there, so I tried to be polite, hoping she would come to the same conclusion. She did - and stupidly, I felt let down anyway. Other than that one time I have not being turned down - not that I'm irresistible - far from it - I can easily intuit if a woman is interested in me, so I don't set myself up for disappointment.
 
I would prefer that women not touch, or lead me on if they arent interested. I remember once there was this girl at work who was energetic and interesting to be around. I used to smile when she was around. One day she came into my cubical and asked a question. So started talking eventually noticed she wasnt saying anything. I looked up and she was sitting there holding her hand up making it hard NOT to see her engagement ring. It struck me as odd. She had this weird look on her face to like she was pissed off.
Oh keep in mind I never sought her out.
 
Thankfully, it's been a long, long while since I've turned anyone down (seems the male population has wised up in my regard) but to this day, I have no idea as to the right way to do it when the excuse is not 'I have boyfriend.' That seems to be the only way without hurting anyone's feelings or instigating any drama... and it works when you're dealing with a random dudebro trying to pick you up at a Chapters and you tell them that little white lie, but not so much when you're dealing with someone you have gotten to know and they blind-side you with not-so-friendly intentions that seem to come out of nowhere.

Personal experience, my own and those of my girlfriends, has taught me that even the politest 'sorry, not interested' does not universally communicate 'sorry, not interested.' Sometimes it communicates 'challenge accepted.' Sometimes its understood to meam, 'ahahaha, I get you, you're just playing hard to get' or 'you're a bitch for leading me on.'

But the worst was when you get grilled for it. Why? I'm a nice guy. Why won't you give me a chance. And you really don't know why you're not interested. You're just... not.

As much as people say it would be nice to have the person make it clear that they're not interested from the beginning, it's not so simple. Far from it. Sometimes you think you ARE being clear but the signals get crossed. People, when they have a crush on someone tend to read into the most innocuous things (and I also know this from experience, boy do I ever) and they're not always obvious in their intentions. Furthermore, when you see someone as just a friend, you're not tuned into them that way and sometimes miss the signals that SHOULD be obvious. I'm awful at being able to tell whether a man is interested in me; it's not until he or someone who has been watching us from the sidelines points it out that I get the light-bulb over my head.
 
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Flavus Aquila said:
Other than that one time I have not being turned down - not that I'm irresistible - far from it - I can easily intuit if a woman is interested in me, so I don't set myself up for disappointment.
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Yep, I'm also like that. Its a interesting skill, but sometimes I wonder if its not self-prophecy...there had been persons I innitialy thought weren't interested in me, yet after I got to know the person well enough, the situation was very different.
 
Eventhorizon said:
I would prefer that women not touch, or lead me on if they arent interested. I remember once there was this girl at work who was energetic and interesting to be around. I used to smile when she was around. One day she came into my cubical and asked a question. So started talking eventually noticed she wasnt saying anything. I looked up and she was sitting there holding her hand up making it hard NOT to see her engagement ring. It struck me as odd. She had this weird look on her face to like she was pissed off.
Oh keep in mind I never sought her out.
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Yeah, this is what I mean about people's signals getting crossed. When you try to be clear about it to prevent anyone getting hurt, you're being presumptuous. When you're just friendly and being yourself and totally miss the memo on the fact that someone is interested in you romantically, you're leading them on.

But the thing is, everyone communicates interest differently too.

You don't like girls being overly friendly and touching you as to you, that's a strong indicator that a girl likes you and may be leading you on otherwise. Personally, I'm a very chatty and touch-y feel-y person with everyone that I'm comfortable around. It's just something that comes naturally to me. The only time I'm not like that is when I'm into someone. I don't touch them, I don't look at them, I get tongue-tied and I kind of try to control my voice because I'm self conscious about the fact that it tends to get a little too high when I'm talking to someone I find attractive and I come off very cold as a result. Basically, if I act like I don't like you, I either really, really do or I really, really don't.
 
Flavus Aquila said:
Turning a woman down always seems like such a big deal - it's never something casual and insignificant.

On the worst end of things, I finally go so fed up of constant phone calls, sms's, pictures, visits to my house, and letters, that I called the police on a female stalker from where I used to work. She had an absolute meltdown over it and was threatening suicide and everything.

A couple of other female stalkers I started by being polite, then more direct and finally ended up telling them to f*** off. They got the message, but again with extremely vicious attitudes.

On the lighter side of things, I have said something along the lines of "I'm very flattered, but....", or, "I think we ought to keep our relationship professional...", or other attempts at a gentle let-down. It always ends badly. So, on balance, I would rather that she come to the decision that things aren't working out and make the break - but this doesn't seem to be an easy point to come to.

As for being let down, it has only happened to me once. After a few weeks it was obvious that there was nothing there, so I tried to be polite, hoping she would come to the same conclusion. She did - and stupidly, I felt let down anyway. Other than that one time I have not being turned down - not that I'm irresistible - far from it - I can easily intuit if a woman is interested in me, so I don't set myself up for disappointment.
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Men can be equally as awful- I wouldn't classify horrible rejection responses to females only.
 
TheDaringHatTrick said:
Yeah, this is what I mean about people's signals getting crossed. When you try to be clear about it to prevent anyone getting hurt, you're being presumptuous. When you're just friendly and being yourself and totally miss the memo on the fact that someone is interested in you romantically, you're leading them on.

But the thing is, everyone communicates interest differently too.

You don't like girls being overly friendly and touching you as to you, that's a strong indicator that a girl likes you and may be leading you on otherwise. Personally, I'm a very chatty and touch-y feel-y person with everyone that I'm comfortable around. It's just something that comes naturally to me. The only time I'm not like that is when I'm into someone. I don't touch them, I don't look at them, I get tongue-tied and I kind of try to control my voice because I'm self conscious about the fact that it tends to get a little too high when I'm talking to someone I find attractive and I come off very cold as a result. Basically, if I act like I don't like you, I either really, really do or I really, really don't.
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THIS IS ME!

People are always like "Are you interested in XX?" and I'm not...but then when I ask about someone they're like "You're interested in them? But you hardly talked to them!"

This goes back to another thread about about being nice to the opposite sex, and whether or not it's leading them on. it can be really hard to untangle messages sometimes.
 
say what said:
Men can be equally as awful- I wouldn't classify horrible rejection responses to females only.
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I don't have any personal experience in that matter, so I won't edit that sentiment into my post. But thank you for that addendum.
 
My experience has been that most women will play a guy they arent interested in just long enough to make sure he is interested in them so they can get that validation. I have seen it time and time again happen to my friends. Its happened to me a few times as well.
 
TheDaringHatTrick said:
Yeah, this is what I mean about people's signals getting crossed. When you try to be clear about it to prevent anyone getting hurt, you're being presumptuous. When you're just friendly and being yourself and totally miss the memo on the fact that someone is interested in you romantically, you're leading them on.

But the thing is, everyone communicates interest differently too.

You don't like girls being overly friendly and touching you as to you, that's a strong indicator that a girl likes you and may be leading you on otherwise. Personally, I'm a very chatty and touch-y feel-y person with everyone that I'm comfortable around. It's just something that comes naturally to me. The only time I'm not like that is when I'm into someone. I don't touch them, I don't look at them, I get tongue-tied and I kind of try to control my voice because I'm self conscious about the fact that it tends to get a little too high when I'm talking to someone I find attractive and I come off very cold as a result. Basically, if I act like I don't like you, I either really, really do or I really, really don't.
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Funny not talking is what I see as someone who has no interest. Being tounge tied makes anyone seem ...um...distracted and is a turn off to me at least. Yeah signals crossed for sure.
 
Eventhorizon said:
My experience has been that most women will play a guy they arent interested in just long enough to make sure he is interested in them so they can get that validation. I have seen it time and time again happen to my friends. Its happened to me a few times as well.
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From a woman's perspective, it could be she considers themselves just friends- but then when he makes a move, and pushes that boundary, it makes it awkward. It's extremely difficult to recover from that.

I would also say the self validation isn't just women either - men have that too
 
Eventhorizon said:
My experience has been that most women will play a guy they arent interested in just long enough to make sure he is interested in them so they can get that validation. I have seen it time and time again happen to my friends. Its happened to me a few times as well.
Click to expand...

Sometimes women will be flirty with me and I can tell that they like me. I only think this happens because I'm married and I'm indifferent to most women around me. This is actually valuable insight because I find women may seem like they're playing a guy for validation, but what they're doing is getting attention from guys who previously weren't paying much attention. They probably find something about the male attractive. Since most men aren't used to it; it's like discovering an oasis in the desert. Then when the guy finally gives them the attention they seek they may find the change in behavior of the male to be unattractive because they're coming at them saying, "Water, water water!" It's kind of a delicate balance. When a flirty woman shows you attention, and you're interested too, you kind of have to ignore her a bit. Weird, I know. It doesn't mean the relationship will go anywhere, but it does mean that there will perpetually be sexual tension.
 
Jimmers said:
Sometimes women will be flirty with me and I can tell that they like me. I only think this happens because I'm married and I'm indifferent to most women around me. This is actually valuable insight because I find women may seem like they're playing a guy for validation, but what they're doing is getting attention from guys who previously weren't paying much attention. They probably find something about the male attractive. Since most men aren't used to it; it's like discovering an oasis in the desert. Then when the guy finally gives them the attention they seek they may find the change in behavior of the male to be unattractive because they're coming at them saying, "Water, water water!" It's kind of a delicate balance. When a flirty woman shows you attention, and you're interested too, you kind of have to ignore her a bit. Weird, I know. It doesn't mean the relationship will go anywhere, but it does mean that there will perpetually be sexual tension.
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I think this is true for some women - fruit from the forbidden tree!

However, I want to present an alternative to this picture - Sometimes for a woman, especially a single woman, when she meets a taken man the potential of being a mate is gone...therefore, along the lines of what [MENTION=1360]TheDaringHatTrick[/MENTION] it's much easier to be relaxed and yourself with them. Because you become so friendly and at ease, this can be mistaken for attraction or pursuit...but it's not. It's that you treat them how you would treat your girlfriend. I do think you have to be careful with this, as you can send mixed signals to other people, but often it's just innocence and feeling at ease.

I honestly think this goes back to this thread: http://www.infjs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27715

Men and women think totally differently, and perceive interactions with different ideas.
 
Hmm... Well, I guess I'm rude then lol. When some random guy flirts with me the first thing I say is I'm a lesbian, and they're usually cocky and reply, "Well you haven't had me yet" or some dumb ass thing of the same and I look them dead in the eye and tell them, "I will never have sex with you. I am a lesbian." in a slow monotone voice so that their stupidity can understand me. Then they go about with "I was just kidding, jeez" and though I'm sure a bit of them was, more than enough of them wasn't.

With guy friends I am more tactful, and it sucks for me because I know where the rest of the friendship goes; I do it to women all the time myself. I had an ex co-worker over after probably about four years of not seeing each other so yeah, he may have forgotten that I'm a lesbian. But during our conversation I was sure to make him remember. He was mentioning his lesbian friends and I'd pipe up "Oh! I should meet them, or go to some gay bars!" So by the end of the night he knew however that did not stop him from putting his hand on my leg and hugging me to the point where I suppose he was trying to kiss me. Don't know for sure, he's much taller and I made it a point to keep my head down. The whole time I was thinking to myself, "this kid knows I'm gay... I'm sure he doesn't do this to his lesbian friends that he keeps talking about O.o" So I figured the next time I talked to him, if the subject came up, I would just tell him, "Hey man, I'm a lesbian. If that means you don't want to be my friend anymore that's fine, I get it, I do it myself all the time." lol and go from there. Because it's true, I do get it.

In one case where my guy friend stayed a friend he was incredible upset with himself because of how the way I saw it. I felt unsafe and told him that and he needed time to get away and pretty well kick himself, he felt really bad. We are still friends however, we just try not to talk about sex all that much anymore lol...

I don't turn down women... almost ever :/ it's kinda bad. The one girl I did turn down, we were laying in bed during a sleep over talking about sex I'm sure, that's what all my conversations consist of *shrug* and we were just friends, she knew that we were, so she jokingly asked if I wanted to make out or have sex, I don't remember which, and I just simply said, "No. Ehhh, no, nope. No." And she laughed it off and I went to sleep lol... Other than that special case of complete un-attraction, I don't ever say no to women >.>

:P
 
say what said:
I think this is true for some women - fruit from the forbidden tree!

However, I want to present an alternative to this picture - Sometimes for a woman, especially a single woman, when she meets a taken man the potential of being a mate is gone...therefore, along the lines of what [MENTION=1360]TheDaringHatTrick[/MENTION] it's much easier to be relaxed and yourself with them. Because you become so friendly and at ease, this can be mistaken for attraction or pursuit...but it's not. It's that you treat them how you would treat your girlfriend. I do think you have to be careful with this, as you can send mixed signals to other people, but often it's just innocence and feeling at ease.

I honestly think this goes back to this thread: http://www.infjs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27715

Men and women think totally differently, and perceive interactions with different ideas.
Click to expand...

Yes, there are many different possibilities, too many to list it seems. No you're absolutely right, a woman may give me a male flirty attention, the guy things "oh she likes me," when she really is just being herself and the male is adding extra layers of meaning to the interactions. Then he gets turned down and it's frustrating to him and resents the female. Then he behaves bitterly and they both end up thinking, "What did I do?"

What's quite frustrating to me that relationships are expected to have ulterior motives. That's one of the reason's I think the alpha male theory of relationships is a crock of poo poo. Yes, they are partly right and it applies to some people, but it is a theory that idolizes men with a few traits and then bases all human interactions as a struggle between "alphas" and everyone else. It is a ridiculously shallow theory. To me, it's more plausible that people just want to feel connected, whether it leads to sex or not. Often feelings of connection lead to either friendship or romantic relationships. Often the line is blurry and that is just the muddied waters of human relationships. It's messy and often contradictory.
 
Jimmers said:
Yes, there are many different possibilities, too many to list it seems. No you're absolutely right, a woman may give me a male flirty attention, the guy things "oh she likes me," when she really is just being herself and the male is adding extra layers of meaning to the interactions. Then he gets turned down and it's frustrating to him and resents the female. Then he behaves bitterly and they both end up thinking, "What did I do?"

What's quite frustrating to me that relationships are expected to have ulterior motives. That's one of the reason's I think the alpha male theory of relationships is a crock of poo poo. Yes, they are partly right and it applies to some people, but it is a theory that idolizes men with a few traits and then bases all human interactions as a struggle between "alphas" and everyone else. It is a ridiculously shallow theory. To me, it's more plausible that people just want to feel connected, whether it leads to sex or not. Often feelings of connection lead to either friendship or romantic relationships. Often the line is blurry and that is just the muddied waters of human relationships. It's messy and often contradictory.
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Totally agree! And I like how you mention that connections can be friends or romantic! I totally agree!
 
DonTaushMe said:
Hmm... Well, I guess I'm rude then lol. When some random guy flirts with me the first thing I say is I'm a lesbian, and they're usually cocky and reply, "Well you haven't had me yet" or some dumb ass thing of the same and I look them dead in the eye and tell them, "I will never have sex with you. I am a lesbian." in a slow monotone voice so that their stupidity can understand me. Then they go about with "I was just kidding, jeez" and though I'm sure a bit of them was, more than enough of them wasn't.
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It seems to a prevalent notion that gay people are just straight people that have lost their way. There is this guy I work with that is gay and I mean flaming gay. He is friends with many of the women and goes out shopping with them and sometimes hangs out with them to do crafts. When there is a work social he will dance freaky with these women and their husbands get all pissed. They make comments that he's only faking being gay so he get close to them. Seriously? Talk about a projection of insecurities.
 
As someone who usually is the one turned down, I would say that being honest,direct,blunt, but compassionate is the way to go, especially if you want to stay friends. Yes, it will be awkward for both parties for a week or so, but the fact that you didn't give them room for false hope or to obsess over why you turned them down will go a long way and make closure in that aspect, easier.
 
Jimmers said:
It seems to a prevalent notion that gay people are just straight people that have lost their way. There is this guy I work with that is gay and I mean flaming gay. He is friends with many of the women and goes out shopping with them and sometimes hangs out with them to do crafts. When there is a work social he will dance freaky with these women and their husbands get all pissed. They make comments that he's only faking being gay so he get close to them. Seriously? Talk about a projection of insecurities.
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Yes! And it will forever make me angry when women think this way. I hang out with guys because I identify with guys a hell of a lot more than with women. Guys, for the most part, are truthful about their intentions or I have a general idea of what they want from me, women are catty: they lie and put up a front of this image of themselves society has told them they need to be. It's extremely hard to meet a woman in real life who does not do this in an initial meeting or months thereafter and that fact disgusts me. Talking to them anonymously online is fine, meeting them in person is a whole other ball game and I just don't want to play.

*forever alone* :/
 
Oh God.

If someone makes it obvious they are interested in me but doesn't say anything, I will always do them the favour of NEVER assuming what their feelings are. For some, friendliness looks a lot like romantic attraction. It's up to them to reveal their emotions to me, not for me to try to discern their behaviour and emotions and make some kind of judgement call about it. Maybe they don't want to pursue a relationship but have a crush and enjoy my company. Maybe they just want to fuck. Who knows. It's not up to me to shut someone down unless they're clear about what they want. If the friendship remains mutually beneficial and the man makes no specific effort to move the relationship into a romantic or sexual territory then I let it be as it is. That conversation is up to both of us, not just me making the assumption and changing the dynamic.

If a person is blatant, uses various come-ons or state that they are interested in pursuing me romantically or sexually I don't use the boyfriend excuse because it's a cop out. Not only that, having a significant other doesn't stop a lot of people from cheating, and it doesn't stop others from pursuing people who are already involved. I take a direct approach. If I don't feel any chemistry with them, I just tell them I don't feel any sexual or romantic chemistry with them. That can come out as "I really appreciate that you were honest with me about how you feel/what you want. Unfortunately I don't feel the same chemistry so I cannot be involved with you in the way that you want." Otherwise, I might say "I don't feel compatible with you outside of a friendship." I say that, because it's the TRUTH. If they're going to get up the balls to tell me how they feel, then I OWE it to them to be honest about how I feel. Giving out a bullshit excuse is just a slap in the face as they've got up the courage to make themselves vulnerable to me and it's up to me to treat that with mutual honesty.

That said, I have had men not take no for an answer. When this happens, it destroys whatever mutual respect we had for each other. He does not respect my answer or the fact that I don't feel the same which results in a drop in my respect for him. I will discuss this honestly as well. If they still don't take my no for an answer, I might say "While I appreciate the fact that you feel this way about me, I am absolutely not attracted to you romantically and sexually. If this is difficult for you to accept and maintain a friendship then perhaps it will be better for us to part ways." If he loses his shit, then I just have to block communication and cut them out of my life because at this point it is toxic for both of us.
 
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