Vote (or not)

[kinglear]

Politics in the US in recent years seems to cater to the base. Because people are largely uninvolved in the process. But we see now where that got us and the good thing is that it seems people are getting interested in policy and speaking out and wanting to vote.

So it would help if more moderate or reasonable people ran and more people voted for them too. I would not expect things to change this next election. It takes time for momentum to build.

what would a 'moderate' politician look like in your view?

what sort of policies would they promote?

 

[Rowan Tree]

i disagree

Okay.

 

[Skarekrow]

there's an israeli jazz saxophinist and self described philosopher who is very outspoken and doesn't shy away from difficult subjects

he has a theory that we have two mindsets emerging that he calls 'athens' and 'jersualemite'

he says that the idea of being able to discuss things openly in public forum and to thrash out ideas to let the best ideas prevail dates back to the agora in athens and is the true heritage of europe

however he says that in the left now there is a mindset that wants to shut down free and open discourse and wants to push pre-ordained dictats and that anyone who questions those is a heretic

here he is speaking about these ideas at the reading international festival:

Athens and Jerusalem - Gilad Atzmon at Reading International Festival

Dude, enough with the anti-semitic BS.
This has nothing to do with the topic.

 

[kinglear]

Dude, enough with the anti-semitic BS.
This has nothing to do with the topic.

if you had watched the clip you would have heard him say it is not about jew v's goyim

what he is talking about is mindsets

he is himself jewish but sees himself as an 'athenian' because he wants to be able to question things

he has a great quote: 'history is the attempt to narrate the past'

this is very true and the first rule of historiography is to always consider the source of an account in order to take into account the possibility of bias. So if we are trying to understand the narratives being put out by different political parties we must understand the motivational mindsets that spawn them

this is intimately linked to whether or not you should vote

 

[Skarekrow]

this is intimately linked to whether or not you should vote

With such reasoning I could link a cupcake and frozen peas to voting.
Sorry that I didn’t waste an hour and a half listening to someone’s opinion lecture on - not the subject we are talking about.

 

[Stu]

It seems an intuitively introverted response to withdraw from an unseemly situation, but not participating in elections, as unseemly as they may be, only allows more profane and less democratic interests to influence the policies that the elected will implement. This is why being active in the primary races is so important. We could go on at length about the real primaries, the ones where candidates seek support from a tiny segment of the population, the "donor class", and efforts to change or abolish their grip on the set of electable candidates. Arguing that voting in opposition to the party in power only plays into the hands of the RED MENACE amounts to voter suppression.
In the US there is really only two sides of the one party. One wing is in power the other is not.

 

[kinglear]

With such reasoning I could link a cupcake and frozen peas to voting.
Sorry that I didn’t waste an hour and a half listening to someone’s opinion lecture on - not the subject we are talking about.

ah ok so you don't first look at what the ideological underpinning of politicians narratives are before you vote for them?

 

[kinglear]

You should do a masterclass on trolling.

so i have tried to dig a little deeper into what exactly it is people are voting for which is of course absolutely relevant to the issue of whether or not they would vote...

but here's something to keep an eye on

I'm going to discuss a few ideas and watch how the same people will clash with me on each topic. They are seeking to uphold their narratives ie their versions of reality

Now this is where facts become important because its the facts that can shed light on which narratives are true and which ones are simply fairytales weaved to make you perceive reality in a way in which certain people want you to perceive it because they want to control your behaviour

so obviously one of the main ways in which they will seek to control your behaviour through perception management is relating to voting

its the same with issues of science where different sides pay scientists to present research that supports their position

Now the problem with this is when people cherry pick or don't research the whole picture. Why would some people pay scientists to conceal the truth by presenting falsified or narrow research? Because they have an agenda that requires people to believe something that is not true in order to continue behaving in the way that the manipulators want them to behave

 

[Stu]

Please keep posts to the pros and cons of voting, how you feel about it, what your history is, its relevance to your life or the lives of others. Do not digress into a critique of the ruling class, their propensity to drink the blood of children, their fiendish plot to kill of 90% of humanity with chemtrails and vaccinations and then enslave the rest using mind control techniques begun under MKUltra

 

[kinglear]

Please keep posts to the pros and cons of voting, how you feel about it, what your history is, its relevance to your life or the lives of others. Do not digress into a critique of the ruling class, their propensity to drink the blood of children, their fiendish plot to kill of 90% of humanity with chemtrails and vaccinations and then enslave the rest using mind control techniques begun under MKUltra

let me just ask one thing...

if it were absolutely true that one or more of those things you mention were happening would that matter?

or would you just want it all kept quiet anyway?

 

[Stu]

I am perfectly willing to discuss any and all of those things in threads devoted to them

 

[Skarekrow]

ah ok so you don't first look at what the ideological underpinning of politicians narratives are before you vote for them?

Don’t make up stories about me and don’t assume what I do or don’t do.
Go back to the troll farm nursery school.

 

[Wyote]

that assumes that your right to have a say is granted to you as a 'favor' by some sort of authority but the point is that you, the citizenry, grant the government the right to make decisions as a favor

not the other way around

 

[acd]

what would a 'moderate' politician look like in your view?

what sort of policies would they promote?

My views are liberal, but I know not everyone shares my views. I'm willing to compromise on things like healthcare if a solution that works to satisfy both sides can be found. I want everyone to have access to healthcare regardless of income and health status. But I understand there are concerns for cost and people wanting to make their own choices or be able to shop around and concerns that government-run care will interfere with that.

I think there's a middle ground there and that's where the moderates sit. Both sides should have to debate and work in earnest together for a solution. Maybe that's pie in the sky of me..

I could go on and on but I don't think this thread is intended for that purpose.

My point was that those elected would be forced to listen and represent the interests of all Americans if they were held accountable. They have gotten too comfortable with their base because most people just check out. And it could be
through protest, contacting reps, attending Town Halls, running for office and/or voting.

We saw it happen with the effort to repeal ACA in 2017. But in the end it came down to just 3 senators who were willing to listen to the public and vote according to their interest and not party lines. Because we are seeing now that there is much approval for ACA despite repeated attempts by the GOP to trash it.

 

[Sloe Djinn]

I've been somewhat disillusioned by the lack of effectiveness of the popular vote with regard to the presidency, but there is room for all kinds of meaningful change on lower levels such as state and local elections, where elected officials can support important changes even when not aligned with federal policy. An example would be the legalization of recreational marijuana in some states. This frees up the ability of state and local law enforcement to quit wasting time on low-level enforcement and packing prisons and jails with people who are not that great a threat to society, even if the federal government doesn't agree. Anyway, point is, there's a lot that can be done at lower levels to create momentum towards a change at the upper levels. It may take decades, but it matters.

 

[kinglear]

My views are liberal, but I know not everyone shares my views. I'm willing to compromise on things like healthcare if a solution that works to satisfy both sides can be found. I want everyone to have access to healthcare regardless of income and health status. But I understand there are concerns for cost and people wanting to make their own choices or be able to shop around and concerns that government-run care will interfere with that.

I think there's a middle ground there and that's where the moderates sit. Both sides should have to debate and work in earnest together for a solution. Maybe that's pie in the sky of me...

there's a spiral of intervention effect though isn't there for example in the UK there is free healthcare which has led to people coming to the UK from abroad to seek 'health tourism'

the cost of that is then passed onto the taxpayer

how many people would seek to take advantage of the equivalent in the US and how would you afford to pay for it?

Also what is going to happen if it continues, economically and socially?

Tucker: Illegal Immigrant Births Cost More Than Border Wall

is this the kind of thing that gets people voting?

 

[Stu]

Each one of those babies are American Citizens!

 

[kinglear]

Each one of those babies are American Citizens!

but the left says the US sucks and is a racist state so why would those people want to be american citizens?

if the democrats want porous borders to garner more votes then that will accelerate the process of destroying the country by over burdening it won't it?

is that what you actually want?

 

[acd]

 

[Stu]

Just saying, that's in the constitution so what are ya gonna do, we get all the guns we want and we lay out an incentive for the tired hungry poor masses to sneak in and have their babies.....You don't want to take our guns away? do you? otherwise we wont be able to fight the red menace.