What do ISTJs want from INFJs?

OMG, I can relate since I also have to become an INTJ to relate to him at times. It used to drive me nuts that he was too independant and want to resolve issues on his own first. Most couples around me did not do this. It's all good now though since he comes to me as a last resort and he sees the value and good advice that I give him. :-) So happy to read your posts! Does your husband give PDA?

Glad you can relate! lol Hubs and I are not into PDA outside of holding hands, arms around each other or a quick peck goodbye. (I suppose that's the ISFJ in me speaking as it makes me feel awkward to be around people who are all over each other.)
 
Glad you can relate! lol Hubs and I are not into PDA outside of holding hands, arms around each other or a quick peck goodbye. (I suppose that's the ISFJ in me speaking as it makes me feel awkward to be around people who are all over each other.)

I was only asking since I am not into PDA either but he used to hold my hand in public and now it annoys him. I am so glad that I found this site to discuss ITSJs! If you don't mind me asking, what does your hubby like about INFJs? My hubby has always been a loner with a friend or two but can sometimes be very social depending on the situation. These types are so intriguing and can be so warm. I've been reading a lot of posts by others married to ITSJs and I agree with a lot of what is being said- positive and negative- but every person is different and I am enjoying this relationship.
 
OK. I've got an ISTJ father, as well as a girlfriend. Here's what I know so far:

My father is relatively task-minded. It's like he's got a check-mark board in his head that he's got to move from X to Y to Z. He's very artistic when it comes to drawing, but he doesn't use it much - he's the man of the house, the religious leader, and the guy who 'brings home the bacon', so from what I can tell, he doesn't use it because it doesn't 'fit' with his current occupation(s). He's very traditional-minded and conservative - as I've said before, I'm generally considered the 'radical' in my family, and I seem like some pretentious preacher's boy from what I've seen of most other people on this forum, so think worse than me when it comes to my stubbornness in beliefs. He has great respect for his family, including me and my brother, and can't stand it when he can't provide for us. He worries like no other when something is 'up in the wind' and could impact us. He gets ticked off at my constant laziness, and can't stand disorder. He's not good at not 'overdoing' something - for example, if he cleans his office, the entire house will be cleaned, including all of our cars. He's very, very good at holding a conversation with me or any of his close friends or longtime partners at the office, but the moment he talks with someone new, it's like he develops the worst stuttering in the world. He seems very keen to overreact to small subtle things, and I've often wondered if he had OCD before I read up on his type. When he corrects people, it's not because he dislikes them, takes pride in it, or disagrees - he just simply sees a problem that needs correcting, from what I understand. He's caring and kind to me and my family - but he's not one for 'bullshit'. From what he's told me, he's very quiet at work unless it has to deal with work. He's strong in his faith, but hates getting into debates.

My girlfriend over in Poland - you might have seen the thread, if not it's fine :P - is also an ISTJ, and I often do see a lot of similarities. Like my father, she's easy to upset if you display incompetence, stupidity, or if you insult something she cares for - thankfully I've done none of these things. However, she oftentimes seems overwhelmed, talking about things she needs to get done but not naming them specifically. I think this is because that either there's something that needs to be done that she can't do, or there's nothing to do and she fears that she's missing something. She's very loyal, and seems to be task oriented as well. Only thing that I've seen as a major personality difference from my father is that she seems very fragile, and avoid conversations of anything 'awkward'.

Please note that these are through my eyes, and I probably am only picking up the best that I can see of them. Hope this helps.
 
I was only asking since I am not into PDA either but he used to hold my hand in public and now it annoys him. I am so glad that I found this site to discuss ITSJs! If you don't mind me asking, what does your hubby like about INFJs? My hubby has always been a loner with a friend or two but can sometimes be very social depending on the situation. These types are so intriguing and can be so warm. I've been reading a lot of posts by others married to ITSJs and I agree with a lot of what is being said- positive and negative- but every person is different and I am enjoying this relationship.

Psychology and things related (including MBTI) he has no interest. It kind of goes with the saying "don't fix it if it ain't broke." If it is perfect there is no need to contemplate how it came to be. It's not that he is not capable of understanding psychology, the interest is just not there. So in asking what does he like about INFJs, I have to rephrase as what does he like about me? He likes that I am very independent and knew he had to marry someone independent in order to be successful in his work (basically to be able to run the household without him.) He likes that I am reliable and that we work very well together as a team. I would not say I am "warm" too much anymore, but that is after dealing with daily stressers of life and he basically gets the leftovers. It's life. Last summer we went to my high school reunion and had a great time together ... as it was nice for him to see the warm side of me.

In his college days he typically had a couple of friends. However now he doesn't have any male buddies to chum around with, but that is mainly because he travels in his work. When he is home, he likes to be home and spend time with the family. We both get A LOT of social interaction through our kid's activities, and he is very much a leader ... a very good leader as well. He is very democratic with the people around him. He is a great father and treats me like a queen. He understands that I have needs outside of this house and is very supportive of anything that I find a new interest. (& visa versa) I don't know anyone else who would put up with the things I have gone through (with depression.) He has always been my rock. He may not understand (and really he doesn't need to) my feelings, but he is patient and listens.

(<----- You have to note that I am an IxFJ. I've owned up to the ISFJ MBTI type, but really I can identify about 80% of both types.)
 
Psychology and things related (including MBTI) he has no interest. It kind of goes with the saying "don't fix it if it ain't broke." If it is perfect there is no need to contemplate how it came to be. It's not that he is not capable of understanding psychology, the interest is just not there. So in asking what does he like about INFJs, I have to rephrase as what does he like about me? He likes that I am very independent and knew he had to marry someone independent in order to be successful in his work (basically to be able to run the household without him.) He likes that I am reliable and that we work very well together as a team. I would not say I am "warm" too much anymore, but that is after dealing with daily stressers of life and he basically gets the leftovers. It's life. Last summer we went to my high school reunion and had a great time together ... as it was nice for him to see the warm side of me.

In his college days he typically had a couple of friends. However now he doesn't have any male buddies to chum around with, but that is mainly because he travels in his work. When he is home, he likes to be home and spend time with the family. We both get A LOT of social interaction through our kid's activities, and he is very much a leader ... a very good leader as well. He is very democratic with the people around him. He is a great father and treats me like a queen. He understands that I have needs outside of this house and is very supportive of anything that I find a new interest. (& visa versa) I don't know anyone else who would put up with the things I have gone through (with depression.) He has always been my rock. He may not understand (and really he doesn't need to) my feelings, but he is patient and listens.

(<----- You have to note that I am an IxFJ. I've owned up to the ISFJ MBTI type, but really I can identify about 80% of both types.)

Thanks for explaining and going into more detail. Your relationship sounds A LOT like mine. We both find comfort in knowing that we can be trusted, depended on and not suffocate each other. Although he is an ISTJ, he told me that he believed we were meant to be together and soulmates. This is not typical behaviour of those types since he does not express his emotions often but when he does, they are BIG expressions. He also believes in the saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" and does not care what people think of him and often tells me that he doesn't need friends. He loves his family and is content with that and having a good job. He has few friends but he does not attach easily. Thanks again for your lengthy reply. I am really enjoying this site and reading about people in similar pairings.
 
I don't know what they want from INFJ's, but I what I want from him the most ( ISTJ) is his security, his willingness to get things right..
 
OK. I've got an ISTJ father, as well as a girlfriend. Here's what I know so far:

My father is relatively task-minded. It's like he's got a check-mark board in his head that he's got to move from X to Y to Z. He's very artistic when it comes to drawing, but he doesn't use it much - he's the man of the house, the religious leader, and the guy who 'brings home the bacon', so from what I can tell, he doesn't use it because it doesn't 'fit' with his current occupation(s). He's very traditional-minded and conservative - as I've said before, I'm generally considered the 'radical' in my family, and I seem like some pretentious preacher's boy from what I've seen of most other people on this forum, so think worse than me when it comes to my stubbornness in beliefs. He has great respect for his family, including me and my brother, and can't stand it when he can't provide for us. He worries like no other when something is 'up in the wind' and could impact us. He gets ticked off at my constant laziness, and can't stand disorder. He's not good at not 'overdoing' something - for example, if he cleans his office, the entire house will be cleaned, including all of our cars. He's very, very good at holding a conversation with me or any of his close friends or longtime partners at the office, but the moment he talks with someone new, it's like he develops the worst stuttering in the world. He seems very keen to overreact to small subtle things, and I've often wondered if he had OCD before I read up on his type. When he corrects people, it's not because he dislikes them, takes pride in it, or disagrees - he just simply sees a problem that needs correcting, from what I understand. He's caring and kind to me and my family - but he's not one for 'bullshit'. From what he's told me, he's very quiet at work unless it has to deal with work. He's strong in his faith, but hates getting into debates.

My girlfriend over in Poland - you might have seen the thread, if not it's fine :P - is also an ISTJ, and I often do see a lot of similarities. Like my father, she's easy to upset if you display incompetence, stupidity, or if you insult something she cares for - thankfully I've done none of these things. However, she oftentimes seems overwhelmed, talking about things she needs to get done but not naming them specifically. I think this is because that either there's something that needs to be done that she can't do, or there's nothing to do and she fears that she's missing something. She's very loyal, and seems to be task oriented as well. Only thing that I've seen as a major personality difference from my father is that she seems very fragile, and avoid conversations of anything 'awkward'.

Please note that these are through my eyes, and I probably am only picking up the best that I can see of them. Hope this helps.

I think you made a pretty good description of them.

ISTJs are hard to understand for the ordinary man, especialy for INFJs.

Firstly, ISTJs like both INFJs and INTJs' because they are interested in Ni. Introverted Sensation is very much alike Ni, there is a "aloof contemplation" quality to it.

How can INFJs understand ISTJs?
ISTJs are old, old, old souls. They are bored and stupefied by play and silliness, there isn't any room for immaturity in their thinking, any allowance for silliness and irresponsibility. They take decision daily, sober minded and serious minded, with a strong developed sense of duty...

Infjs...they are exactly in the opposite direction. Paradoxically, they think they are "old" souls...because that's what kids imagine themselfs to be, "big people".
 
How can INFJs understand ISTJs?
ISTJs are old, old, old souls. They are bored and stupefied by play and silliness, there isn't any room for immaturity in their thinking, any allowance for silliness and irresponsibility. They take decision daily, sober minded and serious minded, with a strong developed sense of duty...

Infjs...they are exactly in the opposite direction. Paradoxically, they think they are "old" souls...because that's what kids imagine themselves to be, "big people".

Did you mistake one for the other?
ISTJ are good with shallow talk, I have an ISTJ mate who likes talking about youtube videos and breakfast and very simple things, and he enjoys it. I can't stand it. We like deep conversation, we see through people, we understand them, we know our feelings very well.

And the last time I checked it's the ISTJ who hail themselves with their greatness with order and structure and belief, INFJ's don't like the kind of attention ISTJ's do.

It's not that we don't understand ISTJ's, We see how they are, it's conflict prone, we just don't connect with them.

We're old souls not because we think we are, but we understand that we are. We are one of the most reflective people, I'm sure that doesn't need more explanation.
 
Did you mistake one for the other?
ISTJ are good with shallow talk, I have an ISTJ mate who likes talking about youtube videos and breakfast and very simple things, and he enjoys it. I can't stand it. We like deep conversation, we see through people, we understand them, we know our feelings very well.
Oh shit. Really?


ISTJ are good with shallow talk
Really? REALLY?
I think you lack common sense. let me rephrase this: You lack something called common sense.

And the last time I checked it's the ISTJ who hail themselves with their greatness with order and structure and belief, INFJ's don't like the kind of attention ISTJ's do.
I don't think they hail with anything, and if they do, its their bad, not yours.
And I'm not sure you "checked" anything. If you check something or verify it, its supposed you have some basic knowledge on the topic, you don't seem to have it. I mean, "ISTJs are good at shallow talk"?


It's not that we don't understand ISTJ's, We see how they are, it's conflict prone, we just don't connect with them.
Ehh, the thing with connecting...that's another weird thing.

We're old souls not because we think we are, but we understand that we are. We are one of the most reflective people, I'm sure that doesn't need more explanation.
Yep, I was thnking today that althought reflection and contemplation are marks of intelligence, how is that many reflective people can be so dumb, lacking even common sense?
There is another kind of intelligence, more important and more powerful then any intelligence, even the contemplative intelligence. And that's the intelligence of how to be human, a simple human being, with that basic common sense in the most simple things in life.
Now, you obviously lack that, if you just said that "ISTJs are good at shallow talk".


Reality, my fellow INFJ. REALITY, reality, reality, reality, reality. Have a sense of reality, before any sense of "depthness". reality is more important than any fanciful depthness.
 
Oh shit. Really?



Really? REALLY?
I think you lack common sense. let me rephrase this: You lack something called common sense.


I don't think they hail with anything, and if they do, its their bad, not yours.
And I'm not sure you "checked" anything. If you check something or verify it, its supposed you have some basic knowledge on the topic, you don't seem to have it. I mean, "ISTJs are good at shallow talk"?



Ehh, the thing with connecting...that's another weird thing.


Yep, I was thnking today that althought reflection and contemplation are marks of intelligence, how is that many reflective people can be so dumb, lacking even common sense?
There is another kind of intelligence, more important and more powerful then any intelligence, even the contemplative intelligence. And that's the intelligence of how to be human, a simple human being, with that basic common sense in the most simple things in life.
Now, you obviously lack that, if you just said that "ISTJs are good at shallow talk".


Reality, my fellow INFJ. REALITY, reality, reality, reality, reality. Have a sense of reality, before any sense of "depthness". reality is more important than any fanciful depthness.
[MENTION=9401]LucyJr[/MENTION] wtf? That post was completely uncalled for. So you do not agree with her assessment thats no reason to start throwing insults around like its your right. Just so you know lucyjr I think its safe to say many people here tolerate you because they see you as someone who has quite a bit to learn. You accuse Odyssey as lacking common sense when you yourself lack almost all sense.
So now im thinking about seriously putting you on my block list primarily to keep from tearing you down. [MENTION=10399]ODyssey[/MENTION] ignore [MENTION=9401]LucyJr[/MENTION] very very young immature soul that he is.
 
If you happen to to live with one and in a relationship with one, you'd know what I mean. Don't get me wrong I love them, and what's with saying that I don't have common sense? you're illogical and highly emotionally sensitive, Sorry did I offend you?

That was a shock, Thank you [MENTION=8603]Eventhorizon[/MENTION]
 
[MENTION=10399]ODyssey[/MENTION] - Thanks for resurrecting this thread. I'm new to MBTI (a year or so) and still trying to get my head around it all. I find it's a helpful guide (and not to be taken in the literal sense) as it helps me to bounce of my thoughts/assumptions about types as I like to try and understand people....

My father-in-law is an ISTJ and I have a love/hate relationship with him (I’m sure he feels the same way but would probably be less inclined to say so due to his polite conservative persona!). My hubby is an INTJ (I suspect we are the only two “Ni” doms from his side of the family) and it amazes me how one letter can make such a difference.

I have to state the obvious at this point – this is only MY opinion based on MY observation!

My ISTJ father-in-law has a very task orientated aptitude (which is fantastic) and I can be quite fixated but I also like to have fun and switch off when I’m not in work mode. ISTJ doesn’t appear to have that switch off button or when they do it’s on their terms! There’s a rigidity and control factor that drives me insane and is probably the main factor that disrupts our interaction.

Also ISTJ’s sense of loyalty is a bit of a false persona for me as it’s based on the premise of exclusivity (ie you are part of the family therefore I will protect you even when you might be wrong!). They also have big ego’s not very humble and can be a bit of a bully when you challenge them – often in a confrontational manner. On a positive note, I do have moments when we have a good batter (minus the occasional malicious intent behind the sarcastic overtones) and open honest conversations which he has said that he appreciates. I just wish he would let his guard down and let people in – because when he does, he’s lovely to be around. We are working on it!
 
[MENTION=9401]LucyJr[/MENTION] wtf? That post was completely uncalled for. So you do not agree with her assessment thats no reason to start throwing insults around like its your right. Just so you know lucyjr I think its safe to say many people here tolerate you because they see you as someone who has quite a bit to learn. You accuse Odyssey as lacking common sense when you yourself lack almost all sense.
So now im thinking about seriously putting you on my block list primarily to keep from tearing you down. [MENTION=10399]ODyssey[/MENTION] ignore [MENTION=9401]LucyJr[/MENTION] very very young immature soul that he is.
Eh...I guess...I have...to explain... myself.
I was bit of a ass, I admit it. But I couldn't restrain it, it just come out, without control.
There you go...now are you happy?
 
If you happen to to live with one and in a relationship with one, you'd know what I mean. Don't get me wrong I love them, and what's with saying that I don't have common sense? you're illogical and highly emotionally sensitive, Sorry did I offend you?

That was a shock, Thank you [MENTION=8603]Eventhorizon[/MENTION]

If you say that ISTJs are "good at shallow talk", in my opinion you don't have common sense. Don't worry about it, many people lack that.
 
Lucy Jnr you said that you thought it was a good idea for people to join the army and learn to follow orders; out of curiosity are you an ISTJ?

http://www.personalitypage.com/ISTJ.html
[h=1]Portrait of an ISTJ - Introverted Sensing Thinking Judging
(Introverted Sensing with Extraverted Thinking)
[/h] [h=1]The Duty Fulfiller[/h] As an ISTJ, your primary mode of living is focused internally, where you take things in via your five senses in a literal, concrete fashion. Your secondary mode is external, where you deal with things rationally and logically.
ISTJs are quiet and reserved individuals who are interested in security and peaceful living. They have a strongly-felt internal sense of duty, which lends them a serious air and the motivation to follow through on tasks. Organized and methodical in their approach, they can generally succeed at any task which they undertake.
ISTJs are very loyal, faithful, and dependable. They place great importance on honesty and integrity. They are "good citizens" who can be depended on to do the right thing for their families and communities. While they generally take things very seriously, they also usually have an offbeat sense of humor and can be a lot of fun - especially at family or work-related gatherings.
ISTJs tend to believe in laws and traditions, and expect the same from others. They're not comfortable with breaking laws or going against the rules. If they are able to see a good reason for stepping outside of the established mode of doing things, the ISTJ will support that effort. However, ISTJs more often tend to believe that things should be done according to procedures and plans. If an ISTJ has not developed their Intuitive side sufficiently, they may become overly obsessed with structure, and insist on doing everything "by the book".
The ISTJ is extremely dependable on following through with things which he or she has promised. For this reason, they sometimes get more and more work piled on them. Because the ISTJ has such a strong sense of duty, they may have a difficult time saying "no" when they are given more work than they can reasonably handle. For this reason, the ISTJ often works long hours, and may be unwittingly taken advantage of.
The ISTJ will work for long periods of time and put tremendous amounts of energy into doing any task which they see as important to fulfilling a goal. However, they will resist putting energy into things which don't make sense to them, or for which they can't see a practical application. They prefer to work alone, but work well in teams when the situation demands it. They like to be accountable for their actions, and enjoy being in positions of authority. The ISTJ has little use for theory or abstract thinking, unless the practical application is clear.
ISTJs have tremendous respect for facts. They hold a tremendous store of facts within themselves, which they have gathered through their Sensing preference. They may have difficulty understanding a theory or idea which is different from their own perspective. However, if they are shown the importance or relevance of the idea to someone who they respect or care about, the idea becomes a fact, which the ISTJ will internalize and support. Once the ISTJ supports a cause or idea, he or she will stop at no lengths to ensure that they are doing their duty of giving support where support is needed.
The ISTJ is not naturally in tune with their own feelings and the feelings of others. They may have difficulty picking up on emotional needs immediately, as they are presented. Being perfectionists themselves, they have a tendency to take other people's efforts for granted, like they take their own efforts for granted. They need to remember to pat people on the back once in a while.
ISTJs are likely to be uncomfortable expressing affection and emotion to others. However, their strong sense of duty and the ability to see what needs to be done in any situation usually allows them to overcome their natural reservations, and they are usually quite supporting and caring individuals with the people that they love. Once the ISTJ realizes the emotional needs of those who are close to them, they put forth effort to meet those needs.
The ISTJ is extremely faithful and loyal. Traditional and family-minded, they will put forth great amounts of effort at making their homes and families running smoothly. They are responsible parents, taking their parenting roles seriously. They are usually good and generous providers to their families. They care deeply about those close to them, although they usually are not comfortable with expressing their love. The ISTJ is likely to express their affection through actions, rather than through words.
ISTJs have an excellent ability to take any task and define it, organize it, plan it, and implement it through to completion. They are very hard workers, who do not allow obstacles to get in the way of performing their duties. They do not usually give themselves enough credit for their achievements, seeing their accomplishments simply as the natural fulfillment of their obligations.
ISTJs usually have a great sense of space and function, and artistic appreciation. Their homes are likely to be tastefully furnished and immaculately maintained. They are acutely aware of their senses, and want to be in surroundings which fit their need for structure, order, and beauty.
Under stress, ISTJs may fall into "catastrophe mode", where they see nothing but all of the possibilities of what could go wrong. They will berate themselves for things which they should have done differently, or duties which they failed to perform. They will lose their ability to see things calmly and reasonably, and will depress themselves with their visions of doom.
In general, the ISTJ has a tremendous amount of potential. Capable, logical, reasonable, and effective individuals with a deeply driven desire to promote security and peaceful living, the ISTJ has what it takes to be highly effective at achieving their chosen goals - whatever they may be.
 
Eh...I guess...I have...to explain... myself.
I was bit of a ass, I admit it. But I couldn't restrain it, it just come out, without control.
There you go...now are you happy?
You could have controlled it. Its not like you speak without thinking here.
Ill remind you different people have different ideas. A proper response to something you dont agree with is to say, I dont agree with you heres why. Or even a simpler, I dont agree with you.
You do realize that people hold these same comments back concerning your posts right?
Respect other people enough to show them respect.
 
[MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION]
here is a much accurate description of ISTJs (ISTps in Socionics):


Sensing Logical Introvert: The Craftsman



General Description

Values convenience and quality. Gives preference to comfort in clothing rather than appearance. Sensitively reacts to touch and any extraneous odors. Enjoys quiet communion with nature. Caring in relation to family and friends.

Prudent and economical. Inventive and resourceful at home and at work, if he happens to enjoy it. Skeptical of slogans and boisterous appeals, prefers to go by common sense. Stubborn and uncompromising in that which he considers to be correct. Though he is distrustful of new ideas, after testing them in practice is able to extract benefit from them.

Independent. Proud, even haughty, needs a sensitive approach, praise and attention. Inclined towards skepticism. Poorly sees the future evolution of events. Concerned about making timely choices in life, yet feels dependent on the vicissitudes of fate.

Impressionable, poorly controls his emotions during a dispute. Doesn't know how to express his feelings openly. Life's hardships make him resort to "black" humor. At times he is taken by pessimism and apathy; instead of encouraging a person, he becomes taken in by their negative state.

Detailed description

Learns about the world through first-hand experience and travel. Sensitive towards all that disrupts the natural harmony. Rejects any artificiality, factitious displays, unhealthy instincts. Caring in relations to close ones. If he sees that the person is not feeling well will come to his aid. If he considers someone to be his friend, doesn't leave that person in need. Perceptive of potentialities that are related to senses. In pursuit of sensory novelty often leads an active way of life (fishing, hiking, swimming, travel, etc.). Cannot tolerate monotony and descent into inertia. Internally sensitive and vulnerable, easily wounded, although does not show this outwardly. In order to survive, adapts to the prevailing mores; if necessary, follows the established norms.

SLI is economical and prudent in dealing with material resources. He is more likely to try to mend old and worn out things than to throw them away. His mindset has a technological bent. He searches for simple but effective methods for resolving problems. Before taking on some task, SLI thinks over several options to achieve the desired result, and stops on the most economical one. Works only by methods that are most convenient to him. Notes those who shrink away from work and ponders about how to make them work or get rid of them. Himself will do only that which is necessary. Works well with any instruments, masterfully applies technical equipment. Often can work well with his hands. Constantly tries to improve his knowledge, skill, and professional level in any chosen field of activity. Hopes for guaranteed and quick results based on rational organization of his labor and studies.

Usually doesn't run late turning in his assignments and work, but enjoys turning things in on time. Worries that he will be assigned an inconvenient for him schedule. In dealing with people demonstrates a quality of "being taken in by life". Shows his skepticism by employing specific kind of humor, ironizes. However, deep in his soul he remains an optimist and doesn't lose hope in a positive outcome. In an emergency situation, he doesn't panic but looks for ways to buy time. Follows and orients by his inner impressions to the external events. Feels dependent on the vicissitudes of fate. Takes on life's shocks, trying to protect his loved ones from them; however, it is difficult for him to bear such burden for long.

Shows a contrast in expression of his emotions: at times he is cool and self-absorbed, like "iceberg in the ocean", at other times – excited and energetic. Evaluates human relations by degree of emotional displays. Turbulent emotions for him are an indicator of instability and potentially poor relations. During a conflict does not get involved too deeply in the dispute, but if he feels that his values have been trespassed upon he responds harshly. Won't be frank with outsiders. Doesn't like it when someone tries to "peer into his soul" and penetrate into his inner feelings. He must be understood without words.

SLI likes it when his abilities and achievements are appreciated. If his achievements are not noticed, he may lose all desire to try, or even fall sick if his abilities are not needed or requested for a long time. Needs new, challenging situations and unusual problems that can distract him from the monotony of everyday life. If he feels uninterested in something, he will simply detach and go about his business. Needs to be inspired and encouraged to take up a task, otherwise he will demobilize and fall into inertia and melancholy. Without new and exciting goals, his mood drops. He responds well to a language of compliments and praises that promises timely success. His state is optimal when the success is just out of reach, yet nearby.

SLI's mood depends on how he is treated by others. He trusts only deep affections – steady feelings that have been tested by time. In dealing with others, he sets his own psychological distance and grows very anxious if someone transgresses it. Intolerant of intrusive and imposing people. Smoothness of relations to him is an indispensable condition for living a fulfilling life. Despite the scruples and distance in communication, he is quite tolerant of human weaknesses, gentle and forgiving of people.

Critical of violence and coercion. He won't pressure anyone himself, and neither will he give into any attempts to pressure him. SLI estimates the potential and achievements of a man by his rhythm speech, mannerisms, appearance. Possessing prior life experience can discern boasting from real possibilities. Knows how much force needs to be applied and where to apply it to achieve the desired result. However, himself often cannot exert an effective influence on these points. Resorts to violence rarely and usually due to the pressure of external circumstances.

As a business partner, he follows his obligations if he considers them to be reasonable. Prefers sincerity, informality, and clarity in business relationships. Very stubborn. If he is sure of something, it is virtually impossible to convince him otherwise. He will stick to his cold-blooded understanding of the situation. In business, demonstrates prudence and methodicality. Always tries to make do with minimal force, attract fewer people. Opposes bureaucracy and detailed control. Flexibly adapts to changes in specifics while adhering to the overarching plan.

As a subordinate

Strengths: His actions are reasonable, aimed at some pragmatic purpose. He knows how to adapt new ideas for practice and extract benefit from them. A low key, quiet tenacity is characteristic for him, as well as mandatory completion of all assignment that he has started and modesty. Resourceful at home and at work if he enjoys it. In areas of space available to him, he organizes everything for work and for leisure. Aesthete, who totally trusts his taste. Always has an opinion about what is beautiful and what is ugly, where there is harmony, and where - poor taste. Dislikes dressing in bright and gaudy clothing; prefers moderation and harmony. If someone asks him for help, he helps not sparing his time. Tries no to impose his opinion, because usually everything turns out as he has wished. He enjoys it when something he has made is appreciated by others. Usually he is punctual. Dislikes prolonging meetings. Resistant to stress. In a dangerous situation behaves in a cool, dispassionate manner. Warnings of danger don't evoke fear in him rather an interest and a desire to test himself.

Problem areas: Inclined to skepticism. Likes to analyze and ridicule. In public usually doesn't show his emotions and feelings, although he is very impressionable. Very dependent on his internal state and moods; stagnant and productive periods alternate in his life. Reserved, doesn't like excessive familiarity. Knows how to put a person back in their place. Being ordered around as a form of communication for him does not exist: he will do as he sees fit. He is only effective in doing that which brings him satisfaction, due to which may make an impression of a lazy person. He will not take up aimless tasks. Does not like languid manner of speaking - instead prefers well-defined, clear, punctual self-expression.

From him one cannot demand and expect:
constant emotional involvement in what's happening;
empathy and compassion for someone who blames others for his failures;
taking on poorly developed projects simply on faith.

Recommended types of activities: Rational management and maintenance; maintenance of precise and delicate equipment; quality design of products; interior design; management of small business.

As a supervisor

A true "craftsman" knows what starting materials (resources) are needed and is able to produce high quality output. He is realistic and takes on only the tasks that are possible to realize. The word "craftsman" usually implies a "skilled worker", but in this case it holds a deeper meaning. This style of engagement can be inherent to a factory worker as well as a research scientist. Its characteristic feature is the desire to study examples of high-quality work, then to acquire the skills necessary for such work through diligence, studiousness, and perseverance.

Supervisor-paternalist
Supervisor of sociotype SLI usually concerns with the question of whether his subordinates would be able to accomplish the needed tasks - does their level of abilities correspond to what needs to be done? He strives to help each of his subordinates: 1) to identify gaps in their current levels of skill and their possible improvement, and 2) to significantly increase their productivity and product quality.

SLI seeks to coordinate his work with the members of the group, to define concrete goals, to forward and support ideas and initiatives, to bring all projects to their completion regardless of the challenges. He focuses on teamwork and collective activities. Seeks to maintain a psychological atmosphere in which people would enjoy working in a group, in an atmosphere that stimulates creative initiative to achieve higher goals.

SLI is inclined to solve problems of immediate, practical nature. This is due to the practical-objective orientation of his thinking. He concerns with prevention and elimination of situations in which he could feel physical and emotional discomfort. Hence he attributes importance to his working conditions, to the activities of his subordinates, to positive relations with those above him.

He subtly perceives qualitative traits of objects and usually has a developed aesthetic sense. Therefore, connecting functionality and beauty is a fundamental principle for his activity. On this rests his creative potential. From this comes his desire to produce quality results that have also been designed well. SLI as no one else is able to personalize his creations i.e. adapt them to the personal needs of people. He is a great methodologist: think through all the steps he needs to undertake for a particular job. Before he begins, he checks that all the necessary resources, tools, materials, and documentation are present. Expends resources rationally. In the course of work he is methodical and logical. Aims to bring what he has started to completion.

His inclination to hierarchical leadership is barely expressed. He doesn't aspire to the highest levels of power but prefers the "golden median" position. He executes his management and control not by forceful pressure but by economic methods. He lacks in scale and magnitude, in setting of major goals, in ability to take on and manage risky activities, thus he is most fit for management of small and medium enterprises.

Establishment of personal contact is characterized by well-wishing coldness. In conversation he is usually dispassionate, although on his face there might be a subtle smile of politeness. Tries to understand another person not in specifics and some separate parameters, but as a whole, not separating his personal and objective qualities. To achieve a common goal, attempts to create a relationship of trust with his partner, reassuring him of its stability and striving to fulfill his obligations.

His business activity is oriented at the situation at hand and objective factors. One of the main defining aspects of his logic is adaptability to circumstances. Subjective personal tendencies are placed second. The correct course of action for him is suggested by the reality itself, not by a dogmatized scheme, instructions or regulations.

SLI will allow for concessions in his behavior. He is equally able to compete, to cooperate, to strike up a compromise - this, of course, depends on the circumstances. If he is sure of the correctness of his point of view, he will obstinately try to prove it. In cases where he is confused, he orients by a code of honor, trying to solve the problem without resorting to official measures.

Key features include:
Hierarchical leader of objective orientation.
When establishing contact he orients at the human factors.
Form of business activity is aimed at identification and use of intellectual resources.
The system of interaction with employees is based on the principle of paternalism - "paternal care". Focus on the traditional system of values.
In conflict situations he is characterized variability - can compete and cooperate to make compromises - depending on his goals.
Achieves good results by achieving collective interest of the group in pursuit of a common goal. Prone to authoritarian methods, but in a soft, "paternalistic" form. Mindful of the hierarchy.
Relation to ethical standards: his management in general is concordant with the generally accepted ethical and professional standards of conduct.
Motives and purpose: prosperity within the ethical standards by adhering to ethical duty; quest for profits usually within the law.

Working conditions:

Sociotype SLI is characterized by pragmatism. The most important incentive which motivates him to work is welfare and prosperity. He will not work for a "bare" idea that doesn't offer practical returns and has no established methodology. In addition, good working conditions are very important for him, which includes a comfortable workplace, where all the tools and supplies are on hand, and a positive attitude on the part of his co-workers. SLI would much rather prefer to work in a small, cozy, comfortably furnished room to the most prestigious office, where there is a constant rush, many visitors, and where one cannot relax for a minute. So that he works well and further cultivates his skill, don't forget to praise him and celebrate his achievements. Although "Craftsman" is often not demonstrative, he enjoys being given attention and when his professional acumen is admired. He has periods when his work efficiency declines usually due to a poor mood. At such moments he needs well-wishing compassion, active questioning, optimistic and inspiring advice such as: "Why are you feeling down? Really, nothing bad has happened, and everything will be fine tomorrow!" And although he does not attach much importance to this, he is in need of composite information about other people, their potential and the relationships between them. If you communicate with him on a friendly and personal basis, frequently compliment to his abilities, provide him with the opportunity to work following his own methods, your success in interacting with him is guaranteed.

Recommendations for self-improvement

Your strength is an inexhaustible curiosity of the phenomena of the surrounding world. You aspire to be knowledgeable in different fields, willingly travel, while not just being an observer to the circumstances of life, nature and architecture. You have a well-developed sense of taste and measure.

The main value in your life is convenience, both in physical sense and in relations with other people. Crude manners, tactlessness, lack of human warmth from those around you deeply wound you. You strive for inner emotional harmony and a healthy style of life.

Your other strong point is your logic that allows you to efficiently conduct your business. You possess a sense of what constitutes actual, concrete benefit. In your actions you adhere to what is sensible to do. You steer away from useless projects.

If some work interests you, you can develop a great working tenacity, acting in an accurate, steady, measured manner. In such cases, you will think of all the practical details in advance, prepare all that is necessary, displaying ingenuity, industriousness and alacrity.

Your weak trait - an inability to express your feelings to other people, due to which others may think of you as a cold and heartless person. Internal tensions that are inherent to you sometimes prompt flashes of anger and aggression, when you find it hard to contain your emotions, and later you may come to regret this.

Since displaying emotional nuances is hard for you, you prefer to talk in a joking manner to sentimentality, due to this you can sometimes be misunderstood. Failures you prefer to endure in silence and solitude. To avoid any misunderstanding of situations, try to trust your partner and talk to him in a serious tone.

Another significant problem is your considerable propensity towards skepticism, which contributes to your pessimistic attitude toward the future. At times you indulge in melancholy and gloom, lose your motivation and give up. Your apathy in many cases narrows your scope and prevents you from achieving more in life, which you can see from your personal experience.

You may be recommended to travel more often, seek changes even in details of habitual way of life. New experiences may lead to an interest in history.

Try to find a job to your liking, which will fill your life with meaning, and will orient you towards the future. Enthusiasm for your work is a good cure for skepticism and apathy.

Don't let the melancholy take over you. At such times, go visit friends, or for a walk, to the movies, the park. Spend more time around cheerful, enthusiastic people, that will charge you up with positive emotions and new impressions.
 
@muir
here is a much accurate description of ISTJs (ISTps in Socionics):


Sensing Logical Introvert: The Craftsman



General Description

Values convenience and quality. Gives preference to comfort in clothing rather than appearance. Sensitively reacts to touch and any extraneous odors. Enjoys quiet communion with nature. Caring in relation to family and friends.

Prudent and economical. Inventive and resourceful at home and at work, if he happens to enjoy it. Skeptical of slogans and boisterous appeals, prefers to go by common sense. Stubborn and uncompromising in that which he considers to be correct. Though he is distrustful of new ideas, after testing them in practice is able to extract benefit from them.

Independent. Proud, even haughty, needs a sensitive approach, praise and attention. Inclined towards skepticism. Poorly sees the future evolution of events. Concerned about making timely choices in life, yet feels dependent on the vicissitudes of fate.

Impressionable, poorly controls his emotions during a dispute. Doesn't know how to express his feelings openly. Life's hardships make him resort to "black" humor. At times he is taken by pessimism and apathy; instead of encouraging a person, he becomes taken in by their negative state.

Detailed description

Learns about the world through first-hand experience and travel. Sensitive towards all that disrupts the natural harmony. Rejects any artificiality, factitious displays, unhealthy instincts. Caring in relations to close ones. If he sees that the person is not feeling well will come to his aid. If he considers someone to be his friend, doesn't leave that person in need. Perceptive of potentialities that are related to senses. In pursuit of sensory novelty often leads an active way of life (fishing, hiking, swimming, travel, etc.). Cannot tolerate monotony and descent into inertia. Internally sensitive and vulnerable, easily wounded, although does not show this outwardly. In order to survive, adapts to the prevailing mores; if necessary, follows the established norms.

SLI is economical and prudent in dealing with material resources. He is more likely to try to mend old and worn out things than to throw them away. His mindset has a technological bent. He searches for simple but effective methods for resolving problems. Before taking on some task, SLI thinks over several options to achieve the desired result, and stops on the most economical one. Works only by methods that are most convenient to him. Notes those who shrink away from work and ponders about how to make them work or get rid of them. Himself will do only that which is necessary. Works well with any instruments, masterfully applies technical equipment. Often can work well with his hands. Constantly tries to improve his knowledge, skill, and professional level in any chosen field of activity. Hopes for guaranteed and quick results based on rational organization of his labor and studies.

Usually doesn't run late turning in his assignments and work, but enjoys turning things in on time. Worries that he will be assigned an inconvenient for him schedule. In dealing with people demonstrates a quality of "being taken in by life". Shows his skepticism by employing specific kind of humor, ironizes. However, deep in his soul he remains an optimist and doesn't lose hope in a positive outcome. In an emergency situation, he doesn't panic but looks for ways to buy time. Follows and orients by his inner impressions to the external events. Feels dependent on the vicissitudes of fate. Takes on life's shocks, trying to protect his loved ones from them; however, it is difficult for him to bear such burden for long.

Shows a contrast in expression of his emotions: at times he is cool and self-absorbed, like "iceberg in the ocean", at other times – excited and energetic. Evaluates human relations by degree of emotional displays. Turbulent emotions for him are an indicator of instability and potentially poor relations. During a conflict does not get involved too deeply in the dispute, but if he feels that his values have been trespassed upon he responds harshly. Won't be frank with outsiders. Doesn't like it when someone tries to "peer into his soul" and penetrate into his inner feelings. He must be understood without words.

SLI likes it when his abilities and achievements are appreciated. If his achievements are not noticed, he may lose all desire to try, or even fall sick if his abilities are not needed or requested for a long time. Needs new, challenging situations and unusual problems that can distract him from the monotony of everyday life. If he feels uninterested in something, he will simply detach and go about his business. Needs to be inspired and encouraged to take up a task, otherwise he will demobilize and fall into inertia and melancholy. Without new and exciting goals, his mood drops. He responds well to a language of compliments and praises that promises timely success. His state is optimal when the success is just out of reach, yet nearby.

SLI's mood depends on how he is treated by others. He trusts only deep affections – steady feelings that have been tested by time. In dealing with others, he sets his own psychological distance and grows very anxious if someone transgresses it. Intolerant of intrusive and imposing people. Smoothness of relations to him is an indispensable condition for living a fulfilling life. Despite the scruples and distance in communication, he is quite tolerant of human weaknesses, gentle and forgiving of people.

Critical of violence and coercion. He won't pressure anyone himself, and neither will he give into any attempts to pressure him. SLI estimates the potential and achievements of a man by his rhythm speech, mannerisms, appearance. Possessing prior life experience can discern boasting from real possibilities. Knows how much force needs to be applied and where to apply it to achieve the desired result. However, himself often cannot exert an effective influence on these points. Resorts to violence rarely and usually due to the pressure of external circumstances.

As a business partner, he follows his obligations if he considers them to be reasonable. Prefers sincerity, informality, and clarity in business relationships. Very stubborn. If he is sure of something, it is virtually impossible to convince him otherwise. He will stick to his cold-blooded understanding of the situation. In business, demonstrates prudence and methodicality. Always tries to make do with minimal force, attract fewer people. Opposes bureaucracy and detailed control. Flexibly adapts to changes in specifics while adhering to the overarching plan.

As a subordinate

Strengths: His actions are reasonable, aimed at some pragmatic purpose. He knows how to adapt new ideas for practice and extract benefit from them. A low key, quiet tenacity is characteristic for him, as well as mandatory completion of all assignment that he has started and modesty. Resourceful at home and at work if he enjoys it. In areas of space available to him, he organizes everything for work and for leisure. Aesthete, who totally trusts his taste. Always has an opinion about what is beautiful and what is ugly, where there is harmony, and where - poor taste. Dislikes dressing in bright and gaudy clothing; prefers moderation and harmony. If someone asks him for help, he helps not sparing his time. Tries no to impose his opinion, because usually everything turns out as he has wished. He enjoys it when something he has made is appreciated by others. Usually he is punctual. Dislikes prolonging meetings. Resistant to stress. In a dangerous situation behaves in a cool, dispassionate manner. Warnings of danger don't evoke fear in him rather an interest and a desire to test himself.

Problem areas: Inclined to skepticism. Likes to analyze and ridicule. In public usually doesn't show his emotions and feelings, although he is very impressionable. Very dependent on his internal state and moods; stagnant and productive periods alternate in his life. Reserved, doesn't like excessive familiarity. Knows how to put a person back in their place. Being ordered around as a form of communication for him does not exist: he will do as he sees fit. He is only effective in doing that which brings him satisfaction, due to which may make an impression of a lazy person. He will not take up aimless tasks. Does not like languid manner of speaking - instead prefers well-defined, clear, punctual self-expression.

From him one cannot demand and expect:
constant emotional involvement in what's happening;
empathy and compassion for someone who blames others for his failures;
taking on poorly developed projects simply on faith.

Recommended types of activities: Rational management and maintenance; maintenance of precise and delicate equipment; quality design of products; interior design; management of small business.

As a supervisor

A true "craftsman" knows what starting materials (resources) are needed and is able to produce high quality output. He is realistic and takes on only the tasks that are possible to realize. The word "craftsman" usually implies a "skilled worker", but in this case it holds a deeper meaning. This style of engagement can be inherent to a factory worker as well as a research scientist. Its characteristic feature is the desire to study examples of high-quality work, then to acquire the skills necessary for such work through diligence, studiousness, and perseverance.

Supervisor-paternalist
Supervisor of sociotype SLI usually concerns with the question of whether his subordinates would be able to accomplish the needed tasks - does their level of abilities correspond to what needs to be done? He strives to help each of his subordinates: 1) to identify gaps in their current levels of skill and their possible improvement, and 2) to significantly increase their productivity and product quality.

SLI seeks to coordinate his work with the members of the group, to define concrete goals, to forward and support ideas and initiatives, to bring all projects to their completion regardless of the challenges. He focuses on teamwork and collective activities. Seeks to maintain a psychological atmosphere in which people would enjoy working in a group, in an atmosphere that stimulates creative initiative to achieve higher goals.

SLI is inclined to solve problems of immediate, practical nature. This is due to the practical-objective orientation of his thinking. He concerns with prevention and elimination of situations in which he could feel physical and emotional discomfort. Hence he attributes importance to his working conditions, to the activities of his subordinates, to positive relations with those above him.

He subtly perceives qualitative traits of objects and usually has a developed aesthetic sense. Therefore, connecting functionality and beauty is a fundamental principle for his activity. On this rests his creative potential. From this comes his desire to produce quality results that have also been designed well. SLI as no one else is able to personalize his creations i.e. adapt them to the personal needs of people. He is a great methodologist: think through all the steps he needs to undertake for a particular job. Before he begins, he checks that all the necessary resources, tools, materials, and documentation are present. Expends resources rationally. In the course of work he is methodical and logical. Aims to bring what he has started to completion.

His inclination to hierarchical leadership is barely expressed. He doesn't aspire to the highest levels of power but prefers the "golden median" position. He executes his management and control not by forceful pressure but by economic methods. He lacks in scale and magnitude, in setting of major goals, in ability to take on and manage risky activities, thus he is most fit for management of small and medium enterprises.

Establishment of personal contact is characterized by well-wishing coldness. In conversation he is usually dispassionate, although on his face there might be a subtle smile of politeness. Tries to understand another person not in specifics and some separate parameters, but as a whole, not separating his personal and objective qualities. To achieve a common goal, attempts to create a relationship of trust with his partner, reassuring him of its stability and striving to fulfill his obligations.

His business activity is oriented at the situation at hand and objective factors. One of the main defining aspects of his logic is adaptability to circumstances. Subjective personal tendencies are placed second. The correct course of action for him is suggested by the reality itself, not by a dogmatized scheme, instructions or regulations.

SLI will allow for concessions in his behavior. He is equally able to compete, to cooperate, to strike up a compromise - this, of course, depends on the circumstances. If he is sure of the correctness of his point of view, he will obstinately try to prove it. In cases where he is confused, he orients by a code of honor, trying to solve the problem without resorting to official measures.

Key features include:
Hierarchical leader of objective orientation.
When establishing contact he orients at the human factors.
Form of business activity is aimed at identification and use of intellectual resources.
The system of interaction with employees is based on the principle of paternalism - "paternal care". Focus on the traditional system of values.
In conflict situations he is characterized variability - can compete and cooperate to make compromises - depending on his goals.
Achieves good results by achieving collective interest of the group in pursuit of a common goal. Prone to authoritarian methods, but in a soft, "paternalistic" form. Mindful of the hierarchy.
Relation to ethical standards: his management in general is concordant with the generally accepted ethical and professional standards of conduct.
Motives and purpose: prosperity within the ethical standards by adhering to ethical duty; quest for profits usually within the law.

Working conditions:

Sociotype SLI is characterized by pragmatism. The most important incentive which motivates him to work is welfare and prosperity. He will not work for a "bare" idea that doesn't offer practical returns and has no established methodology. In addition, good working conditions are very important for him, which includes a comfortable workplace, where all the tools and supplies are on hand, and a positive attitude on the part of his co-workers. SLI would much rather prefer to work in a small, cozy, comfortably furnished room to the most prestigious office, where there is a constant rush, many visitors, and where one cannot relax for a minute. So that he works well and further cultivates his skill, don't forget to praise him and celebrate his achievements. Although "Craftsman" is often not demonstrative, he enjoys being given attention and when his professional acumen is admired. He has periods when his work efficiency declines usually due to a poor mood. At such moments he needs well-wishing compassion, active questioning, optimistic and inspiring advice such as: "Why are you feeling down? Really, nothing bad has happened, and everything will be fine tomorrow!" And although he does not attach much importance to this, he is in need of composite information about other people, their potential and the relationships between them. If you communicate with him on a friendly and personal basis, frequently compliment to his abilities, provide him with the opportunity to work following his own methods, your success in interacting with him is guaranteed.

Recommendations for self-improvement

Your strength is an inexhaustible curiosity of the phenomena of the surrounding world. You aspire to be knowledgeable in different fields, willingly travel, while not just being an observer to the circumstances of life, nature and architecture. You have a well-developed sense of taste and measure.

The main value in your life is convenience, both in physical sense and in relations with other people. Crude manners, tactlessness, lack of human warmth from those around you deeply wound you. You strive for inner emotional harmony and a healthy style of life.

Your other strong point is your logic that allows you to efficiently conduct your business. You possess a sense of what constitutes actual, concrete benefit. In your actions you adhere to what is sensible to do. You steer away from useless projects.

If some work interests you, you can develop a great working tenacity, acting in an accurate, steady, measured manner. In such cases, you will think of all the practical details in advance, prepare all that is necessary, displaying ingenuity, industriousness and alacrity.

Your weak trait - an inability to express your feelings to other people, due to which others may think of you as a cold and heartless person. Internal tensions that are inherent to you sometimes prompt flashes of anger and aggression, when you find it hard to contain your emotions, and later you may come to regret this.

Since displaying emotional nuances is hard for you, you prefer to talk in a joking manner to sentimentality, due to this you can sometimes be misunderstood. Failures you prefer to endure in silence and solitude. To avoid any misunderstanding of situations, try to trust your partner and talk to him in a serious tone.

Another significant problem is your considerable propensity towards skepticism, which contributes to your pessimistic attitude toward the future. At times you indulge in melancholy and gloom, lose your motivation and give up. Your apathy in many cases narrows your scope and prevents you from achieving more in life, which you can see from your personal experience.

You may be recommended to travel more often, seek changes even in details of habitual way of life. New experiences may lead to an interest in history.

Try to find a job to your liking, which will fill your life with meaning, and will orient you towards the future. Enthusiasm for your work is a good cure for skepticism and apathy.

Don't let the melancholy take over you. At such times, go visit friends, or for a walk, to the movies, the park. Spend more time around cheerful, enthusiastic people, that will charge you up with positive emotions and new impressions.

Can i make a humble suggestion?

It seems to me that your views on personality type get contested by a lot of people here including myself...there seems to be a wire getting crossed here

I don't doubt that you know a lot about socionics and can therefore contribute something that would be useful to people regarding that but at the moment you are talking socionics and everyone else here is talking MBTI so the things you are saying are sounding like total gibberish to people

For example your analysis of INFJ's is totally different to the MBTI one...like you are talking about a different type altogther (INFP perhaps?)

So my humble suggestion is that perhaps you could label the things you are saying as SOCIONICS...perhaps you could even create a thread dedicated to socionics where people could go to get a socionics perspective?

I just feel that if you keep posting this stuff you are going to conitnue baffling people because you are essentially speaking about something different...does that make sense?
 
Can i make a humble suggestion?

It seems to me that your views on personality type get contested by a lot of people here including myself...there seems to be a wire getting crossed here

I don't doubt that you know a lot about socionics and can therefore contribute something that would be useful to people regarding that but at the moment you are talking socionics and everyone else here is talking MBTI so the things you are saying are sounding like total gibberish to people

For example your analysis of INFJ's is totally different to the MBTI one...like you are talking about a different type altogther (INFP perhaps?)

So my humble suggestion is that perhaps you could label the things you are saying as SOCIONICS...perhaps you could even create a thread dedicated to socionics where people could go to get a socionics perspective?

I just feel that if you keep posting this stuff you are going to conitnue baffling people because you are essentially speaking about something different...does that make sense?
Umm...no. It doesn't make sense at all, not even a bit.
And here is why.
The sixteen types from MBTI are exactly the same as the sixteen types from Socionics, just noted under different letters.

Moreover, the MBTI system was created by two women, and neither of them was having a strong logical and objective capacity of analysing anything, especialy people.
With Socionics things are different. That system was created by people who know how to analyse things objectively, how to think, how to judge correctly something. I'm speaking of NT's. And also, in Socionics there aren't just two people, there are many many people who founded the system, possibly over 15.

So I don't think you are right. The functions in Socionics are the same as in MBTI. Both system are based on Jung cognitive functions.
So for example in the case of INFJs, the function order is Ni-Fe-Ti-Se. In Socionics, the socionic type that has this function order is INFp.
In fact, even in this aspect Socionics shows his superiority, because INFJs are not Judgers, they are Perceivers, because Ni is a Perceiving, Irrational and spontaneous function, therefore what in MBTI is known as INFJs, they are INFPs, because they are Pericevers, and what in MBTI is known as INFP, namely the type who has this function order: Fi-Ne-Si-Te, is actualy a rational, Judging type, because his first functon, Introverted Feeling, is a Judging function.
And guess what...in Socionics, the type that has this respective function order: Fi-Ne-Si-Te is called INFj, with the "j" letter, because its a Judging type, unlike Ni-Fe-Ti-Se type, who is a Perceiving and Irrational type, according to Jung himself.

Jung called Introverted Intuition a irrational process, a function that perceives, not judges. Why did MBTI got it wrong?
because they are dumb, their descriptions are superficial and contradictory many times, and behind all lies a very superficial knowledge of all the 16 types.
 
Umm...no. It doesn't make sense at all, not even a bit.
And here is why.
The sixteen types from MBTI are exactly the same as the sixteen types from Socionics, just noted under different letters.

Moreover, the MBTI system was created by two women, and neither of them was having a strong logical and objective capacity of analysing anything, especialy people.
With Socionics things are different. That system was created by people who know how to analyse things objectively, how to think, how to judge correctly something. I'm speaking of NT's. And also, in Socionics there aren't just two people, there are many many people who founded the system, possibly over 15.

So I don't think you are right. The functions in Socionics are the same as in MBTI. Both system are based on Jung cognitive functions.
So for example in the case of INFJs, the function order is Ni-Fe-Ti-Se. In Socionics, the socionic type that has this function order is INFp.
In fact, even in this aspect Socionics shows his superiority, because INFJs are not Judgers, they are Perceivers, because Ni is a Perceiving, Irrational and spontaneous function, therefore what in MBTI is known as INFJs, they are INFPs, because they are Pericevers, and what in MBTI is known as INFP, namely the type who has this function order: Fi-Ne-Si-Te, is actualy a rational, Judging type, because his first functon, Introverted Feeling, is a Judging function.
And guess what...in Socionics, the type that has this respective function order: Fi-Ne-Si-Te is called INFj, with the "j" letter, because its a Judging type, unlike Ni-Fe-Ti-Se type, who is a Perceiving and Irrational type, according to Jung himself.

Jung called Introverted Intuition a irrational process, a function that perceives, not judges. Why did MBTI got it wrong?
because they are dumb, their descriptions are superficial and contradictory many times, and behind all lies a very superficial knowledge of all the 16 types.

I'm not trying to say that one system is better than the other i'm just saying that because you are working with another system without telling people it is going to continue to cause confusion and you will continue having arguments with confused people because you are using a different system
 
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