What Does It Take For God To Save A Sinner?

[cvp12gh5]

Thats pretty cool! I debated getting a lynx for a while. I finally decided not to when I read they like to find the highest area in your house and jump on you.

Yeah, it kind of freaked me out when I saw the pics of it sitting with her. Kind of cool but I wouldn't want to own one.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

You are now officially a false prophet.

And your hands are officially soaked in the blood of your hearers.

The pot calls the kettle black.

SG, only someone with authority can make an official judgement. Who gave you authority?

Without authority one is just an accuser. Do you know who the prince of accusers is?

 

[LucyJr]

I think you are mistaking someone disagreeing with a belief or an opinion, and being a bigot.

I'm not.

You can disagree with someone fundamentally, and not be a bigot. To be a bigot there needs to be hate and intolerance...

Hmmm...how could I explain this? Someone needs to be intolerant of intolerance, and someone needs to hate the hate...thus the term "bigot" is self-contradictory non-sense, a beautiful expression of the intellectual absurdity of relativism.
This is as simple as I can put it. By making someone a bigot, one would eventualy be in the same position.

 

[LucyJr]

There is a difference between having prejudicious in one’s mind Lucy and following them and acting on them.
Yes, everyone has prejudices...perhaps even subconsciously...but here is the difference Lucy - like most people, I try and recognize when I am thinking in such a way and to counteract it...such thoughts of intolerance rarely if ever, get to the point to where I believe them to be correct and then act on them.
I think you are misunderstanding the word my friend...let’s not play semantics. SG is highly intolerant of anyone who believes differently than he does...THAT is why I have a problem with him Lucy...not because of his beliefs.

Yet you contradicted yourself from the word "go", by being intolerant of his (supposed) intolerance.

Once again...why should it matter who calls who what first? It doesn’t...what really stings in his case, is that there is truth to it...not that I called him that first.

I was just being sarcastic. The word "bigot" is a non-sensical word, so I attached sarcasticly a value to it.

 

[the]

And @the is clearly a shallot.

An onion -like veggie? So I'm also like an ogre then.

 

[sprinkles]

An onion -like veggie? So I'm also like an ogre then.

Nah. Ogres are scary.

 

[say what]

I'm not.


Hmmm...how could I explain this? Someone needs to be intolerant of intolerance, and someone needs to hate the hate...thus the term "bigot" is self-contradictory non-sense, a beautiful expression of the intellectual absurdity of relativism.
This is as simple as I can put it. By making someone a bigot, one would eventualy be in the same position.

You are. You're saying that because we disagree with a person's hateful intolerant perspective, that we're doing the same thing. You're assuming that our disagreeing is in the same form of their hateful intolerance, but it's not- because the intentions and emotions of hate are not present.

I see what you're saying, it's akin to someone saying "I can't stand XX because all they do is complain" ...this would be complaining about complaining. Or getting in an argument about arguing. I understand that you're trying to highlight the irony of a situation...it's just in this case, not condoning bigotry is not bigotry in itself. Hating all bigots would be consider bigotry...

I know you're going to disagree with me, but that's okay. I might not agree with how you perceive this line of thinking, but I still respect and value you.

*warm and fuzzies*

 

[LucyJr]

You are. You're saying that because we disagree with a person's hateful intolerant perspective, that we're doing the same thing.

Being intolerant of intolerance is self-contradictory, and thus your guilty exactly of what you accuse.
Except the word "hate". I don't think SG proclaim any hate, and so I disagree here.

You're assuming that our disagreeing is in the same form of their hateful intolerance, but it's not- because the intentions and emotions of hate are not present.

Yes, but I don't think "the intentions and emotions of hate" are present into SG messages again.
I don't assume anything. You are being ultimately intolerant, which is not bad, because such is the nature of any core belief with regard to something.
But I think something else is bad...that you invent virtues...the virtue of tolerance...when to me is clearly you are not tolerant. I'm sory, this is the truth.

I see what you're saying, it's akin to someone saying "I can't stand XX because all they do is complain" ...this would be complaining about complaining. Or getting in an argument about arguing.

Not exactly. Those affirmations are not self-contradictory in itself, but you and Skarekrow accusing SG of intolerance and bigotry is painfuly self-contradictory, because you yourself meet perfectly the standard of your acusation toward him.

I understand that you're trying to highlight the irony of a situation...it's just in this case, not condoning bigotry is not bigotry in itself. Hating all bigots would be consider bigotry...

Yes, there is a irony to this. The problem with bigotry is the same as is with intolerance...they are absurd words, useful to keep the bias in a certain situation against a certain "bad guy" at a given moment, whcih is in itself another bigotry, another bias, and another intolerance. That's why it doesn't make any sense.

I know you're going to disagree with me, but that's okay. I might not agree with how you perceive this line of thinking, but I still respect and value you.

*warm and fuzzies*

Yes, I do disagree with you. And you're not the first one, so I'm used to explaining something ad-infinitum .

So there I say again, your accusation of bigotry is logicaly inconsistent and self-contradictory. Your accusation of intolerance is again self-contradictory. You are doing exactly the same thing, proclaiming your view of absolute tolerance, with a powerful intolerant attidute toward anyone which you think is not tolerant enough for your standard of tolerance.

Your accusation of hate toward SG is not hateful, but is false and misleading. And to be honest here, the accusation is plain absurd, considering that all what SG did is to proclaim what he honestly believes.

It might be something about the word "hate" here, or "love". If its something superficial, like nice words=love and words making you feeling uncomfortable=hate, then I guess this weird accusation is somehow ok, but then of course, that's not the true meaning of the words hate and love.

And I said this with all consideration toward you. Cheers

 

[sprinkles]

 

[sprinkles]

You are. You're saying that because we disagree with a person's hateful intolerant perspective, that we're doing the same thing. You're assuming that our disagreeing is in the same form of their hateful intolerance, but it's not- because the intentions and emotions of hate are not present.

I see what you're saying, it's akin to someone saying "I can't stand XX because all they do is complain" ...this would be complaining about complaining. Or getting in an argument about arguing. I understand that you're trying to highlight the irony of a situation...it's just in this case, not condoning bigotry is not bigotry in itself. Hating all bigots would be consider bigotry...

I know you're going to disagree with me, but that's okay. I might not agree with how you perceive this line of thinking, but I still respect and value you.

*warm and fuzzies*

 

[sprinkles]

 

[Average]

The pot calls the kettle black.

SG, only someone with authority can make an official judgement. Who gave you authority?

Without authority one is just an accuser. Do you know who the prince of accusers is?

Go on then...name him?

 

[say what]

Being intolerant of intolerance is self-contradictory, and thus your guilty exactly of what you accuse.
Except the word "hate". I don't think SG proclaim any hate, and so I disagree here.


Yes, but I don't think "the intentions and emotions of hate" are present into SG messages again.
I don't assume anything. You are being ultimately intolerant, which is not bad, because such is the nature of any core belief with regard to something.
But I think something else is bad...that you invent virtues...the virtue of tolerance...when to me is clearly you are not tolerant. I'm sory, this is the truth.



Not exactly. Those affirmations are not self-contradictory in itself, but you and Skarekrow accusing SG of intolerance and bigotry is painfuly self-contradictory, because you yourself meet perfectly the standard of your acusation toward him.



Yes, there is a irony to this. The problem with bigotry is the same as is with intolerance...they are absurd words, useful to keep the bias in a certain situation against a certain "bad guy" at a given moment, whcih is in itself another bigotry, another bias, and another intolerance. That's why it doesn't make any sense.



Yes, I do disagree with you. And you're not the first one, so I'm used to explaining something ad-infinitum .

So there I say again, your accusation of bigotry is logicaly inconsistent and self-contradictory. Your accusation of intolerance is again self-contradictory. You are doing exactly the same thing, proclaiming your view of absolute tolerance, with a powerful intolerant attidute toward anyone which you think is not tolerant enough for your standard of tolerance.

Your accusation of hate toward SG is not hateful, but is false and misleading. And to be honest here, the accusation is plain absurd, considering that all what SG did is to proclaim what he honestly believes.

It might be something about the word "hate" here, or "love". If its something superficial, like nice words=love and words making you feeling uncomfortable=hate, then I guess this weird accusation is somehow ok, but then of course, that's not the true meaning of the words hate and love.

And I said this with all consideration toward you. Cheers

you love making something simple, unnecessarily complicated... don't you?

 

[say what]

I'm lactose intolerant...I'm such a bigot... *sigh* ...I do hate dem cow and their milk.

 

[Love_Conquers_All]

[MENTION=11142]SovereignGrace[/MENTION] once again here you are spreading hatred instead of love. I hope your eyes are opened to the error of your ways please do yourself a favor and pray for the truth of love to be revealed to your heart. [MENTION=9401]LucyJr[/MENTION] I think you should do a word study on bigotry, you are clearly misunderstanding the meaning of the word and what it entails.

 

[say what]

Being intolerant of intolerance is self-contradictory, and thus your guilty exactly of what you accuse.
Except the word "hate". I don't think SG proclaim any hate, and so I disagree here.


Yes, but I don't think "the intentions and emotions of hate" are present into SG messages again.
I don't assume anything. You are being ultimately intolerant, which is not bad, because such is the nature of any core belief with regard to something.
But I think something else is bad...that you invent virtues...the virtue of tolerance...when to me is clearly you are not tolerant. I'm sory, this is the truth.



Not exactly. Those affirmations are not self-contradictory in itself, but you and Skarekrow accusing SG of intolerance and bigotry is painfuly self-contradictory, because you yourself meet perfectly the standard of your acusation toward him.



Yes, there is a irony to this. The problem with bigotry is the same as is with intolerance...they are absurd words, useful to keep the bias in a certain situation against a certain "bad guy" at a given moment, whcih is in itself another bigotry, another bias, and another intolerance. That's why it doesn't make any sense.



Yes, I do disagree with you. And you're not the first one, so I'm used to explaining something ad-infinitum .

So there I say again, your accusation of bigotry is logicaly inconsistent and self-contradictory. Your accusation of intolerance is again self-contradictory. You are doing exactly the same thing, proclaiming your view of absolute tolerance, with a powerful intolerant attidute toward anyone which you think is not tolerant enough for your standard of tolerance.

Your accusation of hate toward SG is not hateful, but is false and misleading. And to be honest here, the accusation is plain absurd, considering that all what SG did is to proclaim what he honestly believes.

It might be something about the word "hate" here, or "love". If its something superficial, like nice words=love and words making you feeling uncomfortable=hate, then I guess this weird accusation is somehow ok, but then of course, that's not the true meaning of the words hate and love.

And I said this with all consideration toward you. Cheers

This is actually bothering me. By saying that I don't condone bigotry in fact makes me a bigot, completely denies me the ability to choose to be a good person.

Here are some definitions that I think will help you understand this issue here:

An "enthusiast" displays an intense and eager interest in something a sky-diving enthusiast).

A "fanatic" is not only intense and eager but possibly irrational in his or her enthusiasm; fanatic suggests extreme devotion and a willingness to go to any length to maintain or carry out one's beliefs a fly-fishing fanatic who hired a helicopter to reach his favorite stream).

A "zealot" exhibits not only extreme devotion but vehement activity in support of a cause or goal a feminist zealot who spent most of her time campaigning for women's rights).

An "extremist" is a supporter of extreme doctrines or practices, particularly in a political context a paramilitary extremist who anticipated the overthrow of the government).

But it is the "bigot" who causes the most trouble, exhibiting obstinate and often blind devotion to his or her beliefs and opinions. In contrast to fanatic and zealot, the term bigot implies intolerance and contempt for those who do not agree a bigot who could not accept his daughter's decision to marry outside her religion).

I do not hate SG, but I believe what they post on here indicates that they are a bigot. Given these definitions, I don't see how me not condoning the bigotry - which is directed at me and the other people on the forums - makes me a bigot.

I think your logic is flawed and/or misguided.

 

[sprinkles]

[MENTION=10252]say what[/MENTION]

He doesn't English. Let him go.

 

[Barnabas]

You are now officially a false prophet.

And your hands are officially soaked in the blood of your hearers.

Hey Jimmers! As someone who believes in the Lutheran Protestant interpretation of original sin, let me try to answer your very sensible and logical questions the best I can.

Why would God create this whole universe just so we can be judged?
I've wondered that many times myself. Why are we here? What's the point? Many of these questions we might never know the true answer to. The Bible explains in the analogy of Adam and Eve that humans angered God, and we were punished to be alone and away from God for that reason. The answer I can give you is that I don't know why He chose to do it. Refer to the judgment in the next question

Why send a soul to hell for all eternity?
Hell isn't mentioned in the Bible. God chose and led a group of people from slavery to freedom through the desert. To guide them towards a civilized state, not too far removed from the ones we have today, God's son was sent to remove the old rules and die for the sins that the original people committed. We were all saved through the acts and behavior of Jesus. We should celebrate Jesus and his contributions, and try to emulate his way of life and way of treating others to the best of our abilities. We cannot buy a ticket to Heaven through merit in mind or body. We are all equally saved, equally sinful in nature. We're just lucky that sin doesn't exist any longer.

Wouldn't a creator show compassion toward humans and wait until everyone found their way back to him?
I believe that God has given us more compassion than we could ask for. We should just be grateful to the sacrifices made, and the time we have here. Let's go out and work to make the world a better, more peaceful place for future generations to enjoy. Let's go out and look t the birds in the trees, smell the newly cut grass. Look at the magnificent sky.

That's what I was raised to believe, that's what I've come back to believing. I've read up on most religions and ways to look at religion and people. A lot of people are going to tell you that they know the absolute truth about everything and quote you the Bible or the Quran. Just remember that they know as little as we know. We're all equally allowed to believe what we want.

I hope that answered your questions.

Welcome to the club we have tea on Tuesdays and debate Calvinist doctrine on Fridays, Saturday is Diablerie night.

 

[Skarekrow]

Yet you contradicted yourself from the word "go", by being intolerant of his (supposed) intolerance.



I was just being sarcastic. The word "bigot" is a non-sensical word, so I attached sarcasticly a value to it.

Firstly, I don’t really care what SG believes Lucy…that is the difference…he has the right to believe anything and everything that he wants to.
HE however, doesn’t seem to believe that about anyone else who’s beliefs differ from his own…he is intolerant and disrespectful of just about everyone he has come into contact with here on the forum…even those who are promoting the Bible, the Christian doctrine, and the love of Jesus…he shoots them down, calls them names, tells them they are going to burn in Hell. That is utter bullshit Lucy.
There IS a difference between objecting to the way one behaves and being disrespectful of their beliefs. I don’t condone the behavior of many different ideals and beliefs Lucy…such as - Racism, homophobes, materialists, etc, etc…does that make me a bigot? No. Here’s why…
Let’s say that you disagree with homosexuals getting married…that is fine…you are entitled that that view and belief…that alone doesn’t make you a bigot…it is when you cannot accept that others who have an opposing view have a right to have that view. THAT is the difference Lucy.
That is why he is a bigot…you can call me one all you want, but not allowing someone to spread hatred, intolerance, and elitism is something that I will always fight against…he is clearly NOT spreading the message that Jesus intended.
Jesus loved EVERYONE…sinners and saints alike…I’m sorry that SG seems to feel differently…I feel badly for him actually…that is a view I never want to share.

 

[SovereignGrace]

You are now officially a false prophet.

And your hands are officially soaked in the blood of your hearers.

Does it come with benefits?

It comes with curses, vengeance, and everlasting destruction, from the Lord Jesus Christ himself.

Galatians 1:8-9

"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9

"And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power";