Why America can't have nice things...

efromm said:
So because I can see multiple sides to an argument you call me a racist?
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When did I call you a racist? I said you were terrified of your government which seems pretty evident given that you don't want the President to be able to appoint anyone in charge of health care, that you were being ludicrous and silly which seems pretty evident when you are proposing that this legislation is bad because of legislation that hasn't even been conceived yet, and that you had a chip on your shoulder which seems evident when you insinuate that some groups get special treatment, but racist, I don't think I ever made that claim.

In most of your posts you keep sliding some back handed insult my way. Keep em coming...
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Meh, I thought I could knock some sense into ya, but at this point I think your own words will suffice...

Because you are to focused on the unfairness of being yourself. And in the end you become the eternal victim always looking for an excuse to become one.
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Does the filter fit?
 
efromm said:
That swastika on my face has given me a brilliant idea....
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That invoking Godwin's law while trying to portray yourself as a victim of a cognitive miser is the quickest way to derail a discussion?
 
efromm said:
Yes... And I think you missed my point just like I have missed yours...
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Your point is that you feel the legislation is too vague and could potentially threaten your business and way of life. The way you seem to be getting that point across is accusing me of being single minded and calling you a racist, suggesting that the government wants to fine people for eating fast food, that racial tension will flair because there would be racial disparity experts involved in the health care reform, and that your business would utterly fail or you would be forced to invest in a particular plan of which you do not like.
 
Let me put it too you this way. This is how I see life. I don't want anyone having control over me but me. I was born free into this world I should not be a slave to government. By being a slave to government I am missing out on my life. Everyone has the right to live their life as they choose. They do not have the right to force their life onto others. Even if you don't like some one it does not give you the right to cause them harm, either physically or mentally. I own my life and my ignorance, when I am wrong I'm wrong. I'm wrong. And I can't see it from your perspective.

And I don't care about health care I am more worried about my job. And health care is not going to put food on my table. In the end it's going to take away from how much money I will have in my pocket. Anyway you slice it it's going to cost me double because I own my own business. For me it's a bad thing for you it's a good thing. Life is not fair..
 
"that racial tension will flair because there would be racial disparity experts involved in the health care reform"

I don't think it would flair racial tension. I just think it is a waste of time because it assumes the worst and then assigns it to everyone. The end to racial tension begins with us not the government and that is what I was trying to say.
 
efromm said:
Let me put it too you this way. This is how I see life. I don't want anyone having control over me but me. I was born free into this world I should not be a slave to government. By being a slave to government I am missing out on my life. Everyone has the right to live their life as they choose. They do not have the right to force their life onto others. Even if you don't like some one it does not give you the right to cause them harm, either physically or mentally. I own my life and my ignorance, when I am wrong I'm wrong. I'm wrong. And I can't see it from your perspective.

And I don't care about health care I am more worried about my job. And health care is not going to put food on my table. In the end it's going to take away from how much money I will have in my pocket. Anyway you slice it it's going to cost me double because I own my own business. For me it's a bad thing for you it's a good thing. Life is not fair..
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How do you know exactly how much this new health care proposal will cost you?

It seems you have issues with hierarchical power. I do as well, but on a much broader base than just the government. This particular essay was one of the most enlightening in regards to that issue and represents my perspective.

http://jeffvail.net/atheoryofpower.pdf

Something to keep in mind is that fear is another form of control. It's perfectly reasonable to be skeptical and critical of the government, but that same skepticism and criticism should extend to every authority. That includes insurance companies and the media.
 
Satya said:
How do you know exactly how much this new health care proposal will cost you?

It seems you have issues with hierarchical power. I do as well, but on a much broader base than just the government. This particular essay was one of the most enlightening in regards to that issue and represents my perspective.

http://jeffvail.net/atheoryofpower.pdf

Something to keep in mind is that fear is another form of control. It's perfectly reasonable to be skeptical and critical of the government, but that same skepticism and criticism should extend to every authority. That includes insurance companies and the media.
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I don't know. But I do know between all the insurance I have to have and how much home construction has went down. I can barely keep my doors open. More costs without more work will kill me in the end.
I don't like insurance companies or the media either. I am skeptical of both of them!
I have studied a little in the Toltec wisdom's. And have taken to heart their teachings. I am a work in progress...
 
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errrrrrrrrrm said:
so if the majority will is to kill all the non white people in a country then the government has an obligation to do it?
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If it's voted in and passed, yes.

A Democratic Government has an obligation to fulfil the will of the people, no matter how stupid their will is.
 
Shai Gar said:
If it's voted in and passed, yes.

A Democratic Government has an obligation to fulfil the will of the people, no matter how stupid their will is.
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I disagree with this, the will of the people can be influenced by those with nefarious intentions and people of good conscience can't allow that to happen, you'd be just as culpable as those that perpetrated a mass murder if you stood by and let it happen without a fight.

One example in the UK is the death penalty, until 2006 support for the death penalty was always above 50% (and still more people support it than not) but both labour and conservative governments didn't act on this because they knew it was wrong - and that is completely correct.
 
errrrrrrrrrm said:
I disagree with this, the will of the people can be influenced by those with nefarious intentions and people of good conscience can't allow that to happen, you'd be just as culpable as those that perpetrated a mass murder if you stood by and let it happen without a fight.

One example in the UK is the death penalty, until 2006 support for the death penalty was always above 50% (and still more people support it than not) but both labour and conservative governments didn't act on this because they knew it was wrong - and that is completely correct.
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Well then, that's not a truly democratic society.
 
:pop2:
Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
 
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minority funk said:
Well then, that's not a truly democratic society.
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a key part of a democratic society is an educated and informed electorate, people that understand the issues and their consequences can't allow those that don't to make decisions based on hatred and fear.

I understand the inherent danger in that but it doesn't make it any less true, there is no perfect system of government or perfect society, they can never exist in reality (at least not at our current stage of development)
 
MindYourHead said:
:pop2:
Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
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Violence inheriting the system! Help, help, I'm being oppressed!
 
True democracys usually pave the way for a cluster fuck of misadventures. I'm using democracy and mob rule as synonymous terms here. It seems a republic (representational demo whatever) is closer to what we're referring to: a tentative "democracy" with checks/balances + ass-loads of paperwork.
 
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