Why Charity Doesn't Work

myst said:
I don't worry about completely solving it... but no reason not to try to figure out what is possible... ignoring problems can make them worse
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This^^^

Without hope, we won't get a damn thing done.
 
The hippie movement as far as I was told by the ones I have known that were personal y involved in it in San Francisco. Told me that when it first started it was geared towards helping others. And for quite some time they succeeded because everyone chipped in. It was when others heard that they could go and be taken care of things changed. There were too many people taking and not enough giving. They ran out of resources and had to stop. I have faith in humanity. I saw it after 911. It did not last long though. We decided to go to war and then the focus was changed away from giving to taking. The whole economical break down was caused by greed. We are where we are financially as a nation because of it. Everyone was flipping houses in my town rent went way up. Guess what else went up? Homelessness. I have more to add to this but I am going to go get some lunch I will return. I agree with you and I am not arguing just discussing...
 
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*note*
My rant wasn't directed at anyone in particular, and definitely not at anyone who's posted in this thread so far. I've enjoyed all the contributions people have added, and everyone has good points. Please forgive me if I've offended anyone, because that was not my intention. I think we had a good discussion going and I'd hate to see it die off because people thought I was angry at them.

You guys are great! Lets keep brainstorming.
 
From what I can tell people think they are number one. And if they want to do something they will justify reasons and then do what they choose to do. If they think your argument is wrong and they are right they will kill you to prove the point. That was the point of America. You could disagree and live the life you choose. We have been distracted by the dream of money to the point that we forgot about humanity as a whole. What are we really doing right now that is improving the relations between people? Right now I see division everywhere one group hates the other. One side verses the other. Ever notice there is a never ending things to like and dislike. Ever notice how everyone and thing wants your attention? I wonder why? Why do we have to be entertained constantly? And what is this entertainment costing us? What if we are supposed to evolve as a being? And all these distractions are created to keep us distracted? I find that I am at peace when I am completely still. Not even a thought enters my brain. I am just there. What moments of are life are we selling off to have money? How many of us do not get to enjoy parenting our children because we have to go work for money to provide a living. Why is it that we have to take the path that others are taking even if it is wrong for us? Do we actually have the right to choose what is best for ourselves? And what is the path for us to follow that will help cure humanity's woes. The more I asked myself the less I understood. It seems that there is an endless sea of possibilities and failures. The only cure I have found for myself is Love.
 
efromm said:
The only cure I have found for myself is Love.
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This^^^

And I tend to agree with most of the rest of your post. I've always wondered if the first person to claim ownership over something realized the dramatic changes they were creating for society.
 
mf said:
This^^^

And I tend to agree with most of the rest of your post. I've always wondered if the first person to claim ownership over something realized the dramatic changes they were creating for society.
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I don't think they understood the power of one person saying "NO I WON'T TAKE IT ANY MORE!" I know when I have taken the lead on something I get attacked from all sides. When I tried to improve the way the motorcycle trails were maintained around here I was met with resistance the entire way. I was even threatened with physical harm for voicing my opinion. So I gave up and went underground. I have a loyal few who go with me and help me clean and maintain the trails we ride. I decided to lead by example and just do what I thought was right. The problem is after awhile you burn out.
 
efromm said:
I want a life that is better for all also. Problem is who is taking the help? And once they get that help are they going to raise themselves up and help the next guy? It really is a choice for humanity to consider. Look at tv and all the images of the lifestyle we are supposed to live. What is the path to personal freedom? I was taught to be a christian growing up. As I got older I became uninterested in my christian teachings when I saw my own fellow Christians screw each other over what? Money! I am not disagreeing with you or anyone, I think all your points are valid. I am with ya. I just see the endless pursuit of money to be a waste of my life and I have chosen not to chase a dollar. But even in my little town now people are coming here with money and buying and building huge houses. These same people make fun of the people who inhabited this place. They call us idabillies never to our faces no they hide behind keyboards and talk in their little groups. They have taken over the local government and let the developers do as they please to my town. Can we stop them? We have not so far. Will we stop them? I highly doubt it. It is growth. Along with growth we need personal growth. Which I think humans are not developing in themselves. If they did the world would be a better place.
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I respect your honesty quite a bit.
 
myst said:
A lot of people said they try to give money to organizations that are accountable and organizations that try to work for longer term solutions, as well as giving food or aid when essential. So, what organizations do you all think are good at this? What do you think of Oxfam and Doctors Without Borders? World Food Program and Unicef? Do you know of any good places to look for information (besides, obviously, the organization's website)? You can get some info on Guidestar and Charity Navigator . It seems like there are endless organizations that are trying to get at the root of the problem, but which ones do the best?
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I personally prefer organizations that teach sustainable agriculture, and ones that help families with definite needs for specific things to help dig themselves out of poverty. World Vision (one of my favorites) will build wells for communities without good drinking water and they'll also provide livestock that produces food for families to sell (goats) or they'll produce sewing machines and teach women to sew to sell their things at marketplaces.

But I suggest looking here: Charity Navigator or here http://www.smartgivers.org/ or something like this website. It provides a listing of charities, and shows what they do with their resources. Anything like this can help you make wiser decisions. Some charities will simply line their own pockets and give fiscally with the excess; others will give things that make sense because they understand the area and know what the individuals *need* rather than what they want.

And isn't that what this might be about, if we break it down to simpler terms? Needs versus wants? And how can you know what someone needs...? You have to get your hands dirty and investigate their world. Know the person or organization or environment. Don't give indiscriminately; give wisely. And *that* is loving the person more than yourself. You love them enough to get them what they need.
 
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You know I love you dude, but I think it's a cop out to say we can't solve or do away with poverty. Poverty and oppression will certainly never go away so long as we live in a free market capitalist society.
 
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alt ctrl del said:
You know I love you dude, but I think it's a cop out to say we can't solve or do away with poverty. Poverty and oppression will certainly never go away so long as we live in a free market capitalist society.
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Exactly my thoughts. Our society goes hand-in-hand with poverty and oppression. If we're going to accept such a system, it's our social responsibility to at least balance it out as much as we can.
 
mf said:
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Think about if you are actually helping these people live their lives, or if you're only compounding their problems....
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Many charities in third world countries now do this thing you suggest, i.e. teach people to do for themselves rather than perpetuate the problem by not solving the problem that caused the poverty in the first place.

I am reminded of the wise saying by Lao Tzu -
"Give a man a fish, feed him for a day;
teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime"

'Nuff said.
 
INTJMom said:
Many charities in third world countries now do this thing you suggest, i.e. teach people to do for themselves rather than perpetuate the problem by not solving the problem that caused the poverty in the first place.

I am reminded of the wise saying by Lao Tzu -
"Give a man a fish, feed him for a day;
teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime"

'Nuff said.
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exactly, what i been trying to imply throughout this whole thread lol.
 
How much can we balance it out, people like us who, for instance probably barely have enough left over after rent and groceries and car insurance and such? The smallest percentage of the population owns all the wealth. You can't have rich people without poor people. Democrats and Republicans aren't going to ruffle their feathers enough to make a much of a difference.

There really is no compromise. The poor aren't going to do anything about it because, yes, they are lulled with charity that keeps them dependant and thankful. The government credits those who donate to charity to reinforce the way things are run and make those givers feel good about themselves and rewarded at the same time for doing a good deed.. and for whom?

It's tragic. I don't accept this system, and yet, I admit I'm too afraid to challenge it. So I sit on my salvation army arm chair and complain.

Instead of indivividualised living, we need collective living, where things are actually shared.

I mentioned it before on this forum somewhere, but I read that in a certain tribe, it is considered an insult to thank someone for giving you a fish for dinner. Of course you get a fish if you haven't caught one yourself! Because everyone is working together to make sure that everyone is eating.
Our society is disjointed.
 
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INTJMom said:
Many charities in third world countries now do this thing you suggest, i.e. teach people to do for themselves rather than perpetuate the problem by not solving the problem that caused the poverty in the first place.

I am reminded of the wise saying by Lao Tzu -
"Give a man a fish, feed him for a day;
teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime"

'Nuff said.
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But what I've been trying to say is that it goes beyond just that. That's definitely a good thing, but it's not enough. They might 'know' what to do, but they are still excluded (or highly disadvantaged) from getting the resources to do such a thing. To make money, you basically need money. The poor might be able to go out and get a job, after we've given them the opportunity to do so, but they're working the job to make just enough money to survive.

I don't really see us tackling the actual causes of poverty, which is that the system is balanced in a way that creates poor people. We need poor people to have all the luxuries we have. Someone has to be making no money, or next to no money, for our money to have the worth it does, so we can buy the things we buy.

We can give, give, and give to charity, even charities that teach/educate the poor to make enough money to sustain themselves, but doesn't that show the problem in the system?

They wouldn't be able to achieve it if it wasn't given to them by the people who already have money. Basically, if the poor are going to survive, they have to count on being given the chance. That's what I have a problem with, that survival (be it food, shelter, or the chance at education) has to be given to people. I feel that at the very least, it's something everyone deserves for simply being alive.
 
mf said:
But what I've been trying to say is that it goes beyond just that. That's definitely a good thing, but it's not enough. They might 'know' what to do, but they are still excluded (or highly disadvantaged) from getting the resources to do such a thing. To make money, you basically need money. The poor might be able to go out and get a job, after we've given them the opportunity to do so, but they're working the job to make just enough money to survive.

I don't really see us tackling the actual causes of poverty, which is that the system is balanced in a way that creates poor people. We need poor people to have all the luxuries we have. Someone has to be making no money, or next to no money, for our money to have the worth it does, so we can buy the things we buy.

We can give, give, and give to charity, even charities that teach/educate the poor to make enough money to sustain themselves, but doesn't that show the problem in the system?

They wouldn't be able to achieve it if it wasn't given to them by the people who already have money. Basically, if the poor are going to survive, they have to count on being given the chance. That's what I have a problem with, that survival (be it food, shelter, or the chance at education) has to be given to people. I feel that at the very least, it's something everyone deserves for simply being alive.
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That's what Im saying, we might have misunderstood each other, we need to aid them, we will continue to do so in every way, don't get me wrong..but what is of extreme priority and importance is to change the system, that is when our aid will be of real help, without this change it's all useless as they won't use it for the purpose we intend them to do which is the overall growth of the countries.
 
Yes, and if I read read the OP more closely, I would have seen it in there! *doh*

Oh well... as I said... there are charities now that keep this very concept in mind when helping people, especially in Africa and India.

When my husband died, he was our sole breadwinner. At first, I was afraid I would lose everything and end up in a cardboard box in an alley somewhere. But the federal government is providing financial assistance to me and my kids. It buys me some time to get up on my own two feet. I see the wisdom of it. It doesn't do the government any good for my family to disintegrate and become a further burden on the system. I'm very grateful.

There ARE times when people need time to recuperate from a devastating blow.
Not all poverty is caused by long-term problems.
 
One of the charities I heard of loans a woman $100 to start her own sewing business. It's enough money to buy the machine, supplies, etc. Once she gets enough income generated, she pays back the loan. I would hope it's a no-interest loan, but I can't say for sure.

Another charity gives a farm animal to a family... like a goat. They get milk and cheese from the goat, they can sell or trade some of it... etc.

These are good ways of helping people, I think.
 
INTJMom said:
One of the charities I heard of loans a woman $100 to start her own sewing business. It's enough money to buy the machine, supplies, etc. Once she gets enough income generated, she pays back the loan. I would hope it's a no-interest loan, but I can't say for sure.

Another charity gives a farm animal to a family... like a goat. They get milk and cheese from the goat, they can sell or trade some of it... etc.

These are good ways of helping people, I think.
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Definitely, these are some of the good types of "charity". Micro-loans are a great, relatively new thing.
 
uberrogo said:
It doesnt matter if you teach a man to fish if he has to buy a fishing permit first.
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You should become a writer. This is so true.
 
mf said:
So the big question is; how do we solve it?
I'm starting to think the answer is, we can't. We can however make it easier for the oppressed (in this case, the poor), to overcome their oppression. We can continue donating to charity, but at the same time we have to work at restructuring the system. We have to not only keep them alive for the day, but teach them how to sustain their own lives, and we have to make access to such things easier for them. We also have to understand, that in order for them to succeed, we have to give up some things that we've grown to be accustom to.

The world, and our lives, would be a drastically different place if we were to do away with a vast amount of world poverty. We wouldn't have the luxuries we have, we would probably work harder for our money, and life wouldn't be nearly as simple. This brings up a question I have for everyone...

Do you really want to combat world poverty? Are you willing to give up god knows what aspects of your lives, in order for the people of the world to live better lives (and probably eliminate much global anguish)? Are you willing to live a more difficult life, in order for millions more to live an easier life? Did you really 'earn' all that you have; do you really 'deserve' the life that you lead; and are you comfortable in knowing that by living in such a way, you are damming millions of others?

I know that I don't know the answer, and I wouldn't be comfortable in throwing everything I know away to make life better for people half way around the world, but I'd sure like to start working on it.

When you 'give' to charity this season, think about what you're really doing. Think about if you are actually helping these people live their lives, or if you're only compounding their problems. I urge you to not only give to charity, but to think about what your givings are actually doing, and then to start working on creating a fairer system. Vote for things that would keep our developed nations from treating third world countries as 'markets', they're people; voice your concern for changes in the system that would stop systematically keeping people oppressed; petition and rally for equal rights; and most importantly, spread love and hope to everyone you meet.
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"Live simply so that others may simply live"

I come from a third world country and i know that poor here is not the type of poor in Europe or US or other countries and yeah this thought comes to me everytime i hear stories of big companies in our country supporting families.... i often time ask myself.. how long?

there's this young girl .. i think she's around 9-12 years old.. and she's pregnant. her family lives near our church so she's known to almost everyone in our community. since our church sponsored a baptismal thing. and her child was baptized, i was told by my friend that a company sponsored her child and they provide the child's milk and everything..
and i ask myself.. how long?... will they be able to sustain the child's life forever?

i do think that as long as majority of the people are living in luxury, there will always be poverty.. in our country, even if we are a third world country, there are A LOT of super rich people.. really really really super rich and there are A LOT of SUPER POOR people....

what irritates me the most is that when these rich people build charity organizations which advertise the value of helping the poor and the oppressed when in fact they're advertising themselves and their family's influence. and they tell everyone that they help the poor by giving them a bag of food... they take pictures of themselves and post it in newspapers or magazines (like yeah as if that bag of food will help sustain the lives of those families) *i know if helps.. but only for a day because most poor families here have like 6-10 children

i don't really think plain charity can help oppression.

charity is not about just giving material things it's not just about sharing your wealth, for me it's more of sacrificing for others giving up what important things you have in life with the goal of not just uplifting the lives of others but realizing and believing that charity is a way of self-giving love.

i think the problem of poverty will never be solved unless a lot of the people around the world realize that each and everyone contributes to poverty and i think it will never be solved if we think that if only one helps, it makes a difference.

yes one help makes a big difference but if everybody works together, then what bigger difference is there?

like everyone else, i don't really know the solution :( :(
 
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