Why do INFJs and INTPs hate each other so much?
- Thread starter bluevideogame
- Start date
i like that.. but it is not :
If you focus a little more (like turning the focus knob to make perfect focus) won't you notice that there's always some self-gain there?
So if there is personal gain every time they "can't make sense" of how they hurt their surroundings
doesn't that make them a little more guilty?
There's murder by intend and murder by "negligence".
Doesn't the word "negligence" sound a lot like the word "apathy" if you consider ALL suicides being hurt individuals?
All my beliefs come with the certainty of experimentation and experience with betrayal, death, suicide, all within my own family but not restricted to it but also depression discussions with more than 200 children so far.
I don't count the "mature individuals" any more since they seem less emotionally mature than children to my eyes!
children are open to suggestion and all..
the question marks in my posts are for the reader.
Nothing but a mere illusion to this poster...
i only improve my exclamation marks with other people's ideas that may refine them if they're on the same track and not on personal agendas.
Funny how @Reason (now ignored) asks me to tell him something from my life.
like he could handle such a thing.....
like fruits like me are easy to make he thinks..
anyway... pardon me thread for this short derailment!
I got asked even if i avoided a side blow a page back and turned it to humor...
i'm not sure i'll do that again...
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dragulagu
Galactic Explorer
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I won't argue against your personal experiences and your stand on the topic, you have a stronger footing in this. I'm sorry that you've experienced the worst outcome from this.
INTJ's have a tendency to internalise a lot emotionally (3rd stack Fi, behind a wall of NiTe). And this can be a serious problem towards the people around them that care, as they don't immediately show these emotions, resulting in a lack of emotional validation. And that can become damaging and negligent. But healthy individuals will take others into account, irrespective from the MBTI type and will take action. It just takes more emotional maturation / time for this type to properly do this, they are not emotionless beings.
A complete lack of emotional understanding (apathy) however is a disorder. And there is no valid research in existence on the correlation on the MBTI model and personality disorders. A broken personality is damaging to anyone, no matter the type. When someone is imposing their actions for the sole purpose of self-gain over others...this is a serious problem. And there will never be a proper excuse for this attitude.
INTJ's are much more direct in their way of thinking and at the same time are taking less attention to the path itself but more towards the end-means. It is not due to a lack of compassion, but more of a
lack of a proper sense on the immediate impact they have on a person even if the end-means do help them out more. They miss the internal filter that is critical for such an approach.
doesn't that make them a little more guilty? yes, and you may correct them accordingly
Thank you! but honestly, there's nothing to be sorry about my friend!
It made me realize there's destiny, which alleviates the guilt of those involved.
I was not before but now i am and i have hate to thank!
Now i'd have no enemy if it didn't exist and no reason to be ;-)
Hate comes in a lot of forms and the most dangerous one is loving yourself more than others around you.
I call this EVOL (as it is the opposite of the definition of love)
and it's almost like EVIL.
It's the sneakiest form of hurting people.
And pain is
If you would put a mirror next to the word love, "evol" appears, not hate!
i wish it was my epiphany too.
it goes deeper than my imagination and involves religion as well.
ALL types are in danger!
why so?
I hope you are right!
Because to me it looks like being their norm.
:-(
Today i took another dog to the vet.
This one was struggling, kicking, biting, crying all the way through the Xrays and it got me exhausted.
Reminds me of how hard it is sometimes to convince that some apparently bad things are only for their own well being!
I've had better experiences with INTJs i will admit..
not that they ever worked out, but there seems to be an explosive mix between me and the TPs :-(
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Milktoast Bandit
Dominate with compassion...
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Hahahahaha!
I saw a Star War in a theatre when I was a babe and that's it
Milktoast Bandit
Dominate with compassion...
- MBTI
- MEAT
- Enneagram
- 9
Milktoast Bandit
Dominate with compassion...
- MBTI
- MEAT
- Enneagram
- 9
dragulagu
Galactic Explorer
- MBTI
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no problem @Scissorhands, I must admit I took it a bit personal (as INTJ) at first but understanding the situation from your perspective shut me down and put me on to rewriting my argumentation.
There are INTJ's in this world with good intentions. INTJ's are just too secretive on everything in general (so are INTP's in some sense), it's an annoying trait.
Hate is a terrible motivator.
There are INTJ's in this world with good intentions. INTJ's are just too secretive on everything in general (so are INTP's in some sense), it's an annoying trait.
Hate is a terrible motivator.
I have an INTJ in real close proximity and he's not as bad as portrayed in descriptions. ( like INTJs being the villains of the MBTI)
I avoid him a little since i constantly feel i am next to an absorbing well that once your thoughts and emotions go in, nothing ever comes out
but he is not mean by nature.
Life has taught me again and again that labels never fit everyone and it's hard for me too to avoid them sometimes.
Thank you for showing some feelings to represent the rest of your type, caring more for them than they themselves do
Terribly sorry for waging war against "types" but i've somehow settled that the lack of feeling and perceiving others is my exact opposite
And i didn't start that war.. their blows did.
i merely woke up bleeding asking wtf!
btw, close proximity = safely far enough
It's as you said:
and it's not confined by types.
My mind is not at war see.. it's not something rational..
my heart is :-(
- MBTI
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That's because you're not exactly wired to understand each other, unfortunately. It is possible though, as I'll explain below.
I'm going to be completely honest with you. You may not like that, but on the other hand you care about the truth. All your posts say so.
There are quite a few contradictions, vague statements, factual errors, unreliable sources and faulty reasoning in your posts. On top of that you sound belligerent and contemptuous in your delivery.
(I'm sorry, there is no nice way of telling you this.)
Now it's obvious you just use reasoning to underline the emotional message in your posts; the emotions are of primary importance and the reasoning of secondary importance. A high Fi user will understand that from your message.
An xNTP or xNFJ will see your posts however, and they'll go "What you're saying doesn't make any sense! The lights are on but nobody's home!" (Ti) and "You're a dick." (Fe). If they point that out, you'll get defensive (Inferior Te trigger). In that way, everyone gets frustrated and nobody feels heard.
Other types can train themselves to override their first instinct and to look at the emotional content of the message, and that's actually relatively easy for xNTJs (when they develop Fi). For example, Dragulagu did just that. It's hard for xNTPs, but not impossible.
Now obviously you can't do anything about the people around you. You're only in control of yourself. But there is something you can do. If you're open to it, you could take a few courses on philosophy. This has two benefits to you. You'll strengthen your inferior Te, and integration of the dominant and inferior functions into one whole is what's MBTI is all about, right? And you'll stop running into the explosive problem with NTPs and NTJs. Sure, they'll still feel apathetic to you, but you'll be able to explain yourself better to them so their reactions to you will be different too.
We already know you like philosophy, as you've referenced Nietzsche.
Feel free to do with this post as you wish.
Thank you!
my choice with it too is to use it to arrive to truths as
I always do!
but in order for one to be honest to the other they must first ace honesty concerning themselves.
Do you think you're honest with yourself concerning what you see here or on what has happened from the day we met?
would you say you are objective and uninfluenced from friendships when truth is concerned?
unless you prove all those, it will remain in the realm of your opinion.
For it to transform into a legitimate view, you gonna have to base it on something and prove it.
to prove something you must research it. did you?
Do you understand fishing my dear?
how it is to throw hooks in the water hoping for the good catch and avoid all the poisonous fish?
my messages are never vague. they are cryptic.
Some intuitions pick up the meaning behind them, some don't.
Not sure of what scorpion fish think of my hooks, but i'm having a blast with my catch so far!
haven't even got serious!
consider the coin that was thrown in the jukebox first and then you'll understand the music it played.
And do you think because you say so it stands?
it stands as much s a castle of sand on the beach does.
Good luck holding back the wave!
What you've proven so far my dear @Lady Jolanda is that you've watched/researched nothing
because if you did, you'd know better than trying to fight a messenger to stop their message.
You'd know that it's best to observe it (i see a P there) and earn something you lack from it instead of Judgin it away and blindly attacking it.
Once you do get there you will silence your own self so there's no more action needed on my part other than exposing your motives today.
Aren't you calling everyone around you stupid because due to your lack of understanding of the problem that entered your shores
you judge that it also doesn't make sense to others?
Something in the lines of "since i'm not getting it, no one else can!"
And i thanked him already, explaining my faults on "labeling" as a reflection to his kindness, self-reflection, maturity and intelligence to understand the other side and not rush them into "enemy" category.
That got reflected just as this right now does.
Aren't you presuming i haven't?
Would you like me to enumerate what i've studied concerning philosophy my dear?
Why, do you think that if we were to discuss Nietzsche, you'd know more about him than i do?
have you ever come across his revival of Greek mythology and how he separates us in Apollonian or Dionysian?
do you understand how this relates to my message which has only been hinted yet?
or that i've made a series of 45 hours of videos concerning an INFP's view of the problem concerning our children around us
and you are trying to fight it? without having watched one minute of it?
i know you haven't watched because you'd know better than attacking that video editor with words.
My dear... knowing half truths is worse than knowing no truths at all.
Trying to create "made beliefs" for others to read while remaining in the realm of unsubstantiation makes you my enemy.
It's not even personal!
it's you choosing sides!
Allow me to shed a light through the words of apparently one of your favorite philosophers who if you'd studied enough,
my words would make more sense. as they do to others.
knowing which battle to pick, which one is already lost, when to fight and who!
but you.....
anyway.. your feedback is appreciated!
but trains are weird things to fight their driver like he chooses the turns.
All train drivers care for are schedules so doors at some point close up whatever those at the station think.
you jump in or not, because others are waiting on the next station.
nothing personal to fight there u see?
<3
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Everybody is entitled to an opinion.
But for it to become a view, do they possess the knowledge required?
-Plato
This thread is not derailed from the topic.
it expresses it with great examples!
Winning does not define narcissism.
winning only defines potential.
wanting to win does or not knowing to accept defeat.
They some times seem one and the same to those who's opinions survival benefit from confusing the two.
a little vague i guess huh?
Thank you helping me clarify it by representing another example!
<3²
But for it to become a view, do they possess the knowledge required?
-Plato
This thread is not derailed from the topic.
it expresses it with great examples!
Winning does not define narcissism.
winning only defines potential.
wanting to win does or not knowing to accept defeat.
They some times seem one and the same to those who's opinions survival benefit from confusing the two.
a little vague i guess huh?
Thank you helping me clarify it by representing another example!
<3²
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As I was saying.
How on Earth can you use the word "enemy" and "nothing personal" in one sentence. By declaring someone an enemy, you're by definition making it personal.
Opponent, perhaps. Enemy? I'm not hostile, harmful or hateful towards you. If anything I want a better life for you, without so many head-butts and conflicts and more mutual understanding.
Sides?
Since when are there sides? I'm not on anybody's side.
Why do you believe someone is "against you" when they disagree with you?
does the word defend only connect with egoistic motives?
Don't men have to protect women and children?
is it due to ego?
Are you a teacher?
because i sure seem to be learning a great deal today!
defending truth concerning "issues or truth" about those who choose to share it around
isn't that for defending the very truth they are trying to present?
Still waiting for you to do that!
See, all i did was to challenge some "truths" by merely providing a doubt of them and some evidence to support it with imagery and links where mature individuals can go about and research themselves ignoring the personal conflict of ideas but you seem to take the exact opposite route and to top that, providing nothing to the argument itself but "attack" due to the methods you use.
Not only didn't you respond or counter that proof, you allowed others to attack their messenger and when that failed, turned to me as "attacking the messenger of the messenger of something" when that "something" could be an alternate truth that saves people from thinking they are apes and share the ethics thereof.
All you've done since then is throw in irony against my name and jokes on narcissism and me like some "given" that new readers can take "for granted" trusting your humors around it as it being "a fact"
and never failed to like all comments around about it either.
wait a minute.... isn't that war? i know a carpet bomb when i see one dear!
i'm an INFP!
am i the one who starts it because i am exposing the hidden arrows that shoot to hearts instead of sWording out some evidence??
covert acts of war bring war when exposed!
welcome to my club
it was your choice, not mine!
Where's your disagreement hun? let me here it clearly in whichever thread you pick! (tag me to see it though because whn i waste so much energy to defend myself i don't have any to go out browsing)
If this is not a matter of sides, then deal with the evidence and stop the 'ad hominem's!
otherwise, i'll use my sWord as i think it's best. Thanks!
Lying about your motives does not hide them! your actions prove them to those with eyes (N)
I've never talked about your character but that's all you seem to care about
yours or discrediting mine!
There are no mutual understandings and middle grounds on whether some paths lead to a cliff and others don't.
Knowing a path can be a matter of life and death.
so, do pardon the sign!
signs love people (proven by their message) and they don't care much for punches to get it across.
They're from iron silly!
Well, because fighting your ego can in fact save your heart.
If it's any personal is because i care too much for each of those hearts no matter the wounds their minds might cause in mine by attacking that instead of evidence.
before i got there, mine had to perish first too.
So i know it's doable and i'll keep fighting yours as you bring it in the table of the search for truth!
arguments have sides
ethics have sides too
what are you?
in between everything?
i fetched the wrong quotes then!
I'm just hot dog! that's all!
If you're not in between then you must be on one side. can you guess which it is concerning which truth saves children and which one kills them by depression or parental negligence?
Even your attempt to spin my words into "a personal war this dude has waged, who is seeing war everywhere instead of love"
is another broken arrow if i look at my feet.
At least, don't lie about throwing them because i'm not the only one with eyes in here!
stop coming hun!
mirrors don't choose what they reflect.
they're built that way!
Read the title of this thread again please.
prove physical eyes at least.
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I'm sorry you're misinterpreting all attempts at conversation with you as a personal attack Scissor.
I will step away from this, as there is nothing to be gained here.
However, before I do, let me give you one last warning:
Drop the condescending attitude. You're free to believe and share what you want, but you will do so with respect towards your fellow members. We do not have enemies here, we have interlocutors. As you've specifically agreed to these rules when you joined the site, I trust your future posts will be free of belligerence and contempt.
I will step away from this, as there is nothing to be gained here.
However, before I do, let me give you one last warning:
Drop the condescending attitude. You're free to believe and share what you want, but you will do so with respect towards your fellow members. We do not have enemies here, we have interlocutors. As you've specifically agreed to these rules when you joined the site, I trust your future posts will be free of belligerence and contempt.
Ren
Seeker at heart
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Ren
Seeker at heart
- MBTI
- INFJ
- Enneagram
- 146
