Working Until You Die | INFJ Forum

Working Until You Die

Faye

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Mar 9, 2009
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The financial reality of most millennials (roughly age 27 to 42 in 2023) and younger generations is that we are going to work until we die. Most of the people in this age range are way behind on retirement savings (if they even have any). If they live in the United States, Congress is raising the age at which one can collect full Social Security benefits to 67, which could easily be increased again in the future.

So what are your thoughts on this? The French are rioting because their government is trying to push a pension reform that would raise retirement age and make it more difficult to be eligible for benefits, but outside of France there isn't much concern it seems.
 
There are two issues with the French system that are of note, and I am aware of these things because of my partner living in Paris, and a friend who is an expat in Montreal:
  1. culturally, the French feel they have paid into a system, and what is rightfully theirs has been stolen
  2. the system allows for gross inequity—a person who joins the system at 18, and a person who joins at 33, upon retirement, will receive the same pension
What is happening there is happening in every Western nation because of inverted population pyramids as caused by the rapid decline of birth rates to below that necessary to maintain the population.

Of course, the biggest reason people are not parenting children, as said by the normative reproductive cohort themselves, is economic.

I appreciate the French anger, but at the same time, I understand that the numbers simply do not work. That’s divorced from all else. It’s the numbers, nothing personal.

Regarding the United States, I’m Gen-X, so I say whatever. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

But not really—I care, but there is nothing I can do. I was born right before the post-WW2 economic boom was in its final breaths before death.

This is perhaps not the end of capitalism, but it is going to be one of the great resets. I’m not sure what that’s going to look like.

The social contract was slain on the altar of Mammon, and I don’t think one can come back from that.

Retirement is only for those who are privileged. SS is a social safety net to protect the young, as it keeps the aged docile enough to not absolutely lose their shit.

Mass wealth extraction always comes with a societal bill, and it is necessarily expensive. Goings-on will be predicated upon ever-narrowing margins, until the veneer itself is stripped away, and the true cost is revealed.

The Plan™—do these things, in this order, so as to eat the sweet fruit of the tree—has been shown to be a scam, because as people did each step, the rug was pulled from beneath them.

The poor of Gen-X, Millennials, Gen-Z, Alphas, and those who will follow, will not work until they die unless they die of overwork (likely). The agism bugaboo will prevent that, and it’s only getting worse.

To what end? I don’t know, but it seems a right and proper dystopia.

Cheers,
Ian
 
I think this question can be split up into a few different topics. For one I think school, at least here in Sweden, lacks in financial literacy. As they say in the video, a retirement plan and passive investment can substantially change life quality, and yet a lot of people don't even know the most of basics in this.

On the other hand, I think an almost bigger issue is the disillusionment we have with work. I think we as a society should aim to have a lifestyle loop where we add to the experience, and create something positive. Instead, people are more and more looking how to get out. While I understand it of course, I think it's telling about the society we live in. I think people need to have purpose in what they do, and for various reasons I think we're failing in this.
 
67 is optimistic given the state of things in current society never mind what things could be over the next couple of decades would probably put the age somewhere a lot closer to 80 for most who are under 40 right now even with automation taking over some of the jobs things are going to get worse. I do expect a revolution or civil war of some sort over issues like this as the working and low middle classes get the blood sucked out into oblivion through cost of existence increases never mind all the new taxes we'll see in that time.
 

The financial reality of most millennials (roughly age 27 to 42 in 2023) and younger generations is that we are going to work until we die. Most of the people in this age range are way behind on retirement savings (if they even have any). If they live in the United States, Congress is raising the age at which one can collect full Social Security benefits to 67, which could easily be increased again in the future.

So what are your thoughts on this? The French are rioting because their government is trying to push a pension reform that would raise retirement age and make it more difficult to be eligible for benefits, but outside of France there isn't much concern it seems.

Things will break down and a new system will emerge. I don't think millennials will work until they die. That's ridiculous. There won't be enough jobs for us even in next 5-10 years. What jobs are you talking about in 20-30 years?

There is an optimistic version of the future, people just don't see it because they are too submerged in the current system which if falling apart at the seams.

I choose optimism. Yeah pension as our parents know it is toast. It doesn't matter because something new will emerge.
 
Proper leadership: difficult to have when the mega-rich can close down a stock market or start a war. It's a wonder we have what we have nowadays. Groups standing in the darkness waving their flags. Survival in this world at its best.

This is just a small bit of the many problems that must be faced. There are so many smokescreens. I, too, see many people just trying to get out.
Shall they be glad, or will they be miserable leaving all those behind?
Yet, I also see many people trying to get in and become part of the problems for their own selves.

I see the biggest problem facing us is the heart of mankind.
 
Proper leadership: difficult to have when the mega-rich can close down a stock market or start a war. It's a wonder we have what we have nowadays. Groups standing in the darkness waving their flags. Survival in this world at its best.

This is just a small bit of the many problems that must be faced. There are so many smokescreens. I, too, see many people just trying to get out.
Shall they be glad, or will they be miserable leaving all those behind?
Yet, I also see many people trying to get in and become part of the problems for their own selves.

I see the biggest problem facing us is the heart of mankind.
I am doubtful that proper leadership is even possible given the state of society lately and too much of this civilization is getting to be fairly late life cycle wise. What is worse is those mega rich elites know that a global reset is going to happen regardless even though they want it to only happen on their terms ie mass impoverishment and total enslavement of humanity. Ultimately they'll crash the world and send it back into the dark ages long before other issues like climate change have a chance to live up to what the msm etc have been saying for the past couple of decades. Really does suck for the generations that have little or no real responsibility for creating all this and most never really got to live to begin with.
 
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Interestingly, many of all age groups had little to nothing to do with the situation. Some of our leaders fight with animosity to try and get things their ways. Many turn their backs in obscurity. Lies are told, proven to be lies, they never get punished, and still run to be president or governor. What do we onlookers learn from this?

Stopping something leading us down the path to destruction is hard enough, but what to conform it with?
 
It doesn't seem so bad having a balanced life.

Working for 8 hours, having recreation for 8 hours, and sleeping for 8 hours is very pleasant. Weekends, and vacations on top of that routine are very nice.

I really don't get the extreme discomfort sometimes expressed about the regular work life. 16 hours of free time on weekdays, and full weekends is so wonderful.

As for having goals, like owning property, it's ok, but just creates more work for the owner.
 

The financial reality of most millennials (roughly age 27 to 42 in 2023) and younger generations is that we are going to work until we die. Most of the people in this age range are way behind on retirement savings (if they even have any). If they live in the United States, Congress is raising the age at which one can collect full Social Security benefits to 67, which could easily be increased again in the future.

So what are your thoughts on this? The French are rioting because their government is trying to push a pension reform that would raise retirement age and make it more difficult to be eligible for benefits, but outside of France there isn't much concern it seems.
What burns most for me is the realization that as a bottom feeder in an organizational structure, my hardwork benefits the CEO and the Board the most. These are people who will probably retire comfortably. It's a triangle of well-paying positions, the number of positions on the tip are only very few, and are also already reserved for overachievers or psycophants. I get that those who have more responsibility need to be paid more but there are many more ordinary people and they need to live and be able to retire too. Isn't that a responsibility that those at the top should humanely secure?
 
No, it is not their responsibility.

Why not? This is hypercapitalism.

Sigh,
Ian