2nd Amendment - what's the point?

[Matt3737]

Why does a person break and enter? To kill people in the house or to steal what's inside?

That's not the point. The point being they may kill you simply because it increases the likelihood that they don't get caught.

How much time difference between alerting the authorities is there between fleeing from someone alive and fleeing from someone dead do you think there is?

 

[sprinkles]

How do I expect anyone to be like me? I keep writing that these are my points of view, my view on morality, my reading on the world. You're not disagreeing with me, you're attacking me personally for no reason other than just being annoyed at my point of view.

Your manner of speaking tends to imply that we're ignorant unwashed barbarians. It's not about your view, it's about how you're presenting it.

 

[j654dgj7]

Your manner of speaking tends to imply that we're ignorant unwashed barbarians. It's not about your view, it's about how you're presenting it.

I give. My point of view has been stated, I get where you're all coming from. I'm out.

 

[just me]

Truth hurts.

I will protect myself wherever I go. Criminals will always have guns. I will always have guns. Parking lot of a store? Keep your distance from me. I have had to raise my arm in a parking lot when someone approached me from my blindside, telling him to back away(no way he could have come through that little space). Had my hand in a police or military position: stiff arm with fingers together pointing upward to say "stop". I had a gun, but did not have to reveal it or use it. The guy held both arms up and backed away. People had been getting robbed in that parking lot. It was a white guy, and he knew I meant business.

People with guns are not the danger here.

How is the National Guard going to help if the government gets out of hand?




enabling the people to organize a militia system.
participating in law enforcement;
deterring tyrannical government;[SUP][56][/SUP]
repelling invasion;
suppressing insurrection, allegedly including slave revolts;[SUP][57][/SUP]
[SUP][58][/SUP][SUP][59][/SUP]
facilitating a natural right of self-defense.

 

[Matt3737]

How is the National Guard going to help if the government gets out of hand?

A majority of people have to support it for it to be able to 'get out of hand'. The people can just as easily turn on the government as it can on them.

If you'll recall the people beheaded Louis and Marie Antoinette during the French Revolution.

"Let them eat cake" is the traditional translation of the French phrase "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche", supposedly spoken by "a great princess" upon learning that the peasants had no bread. Since brioche was a luxury bread enriched with butter and eggs, the quote would reflect the princess's disregard for peasants.

While it is commonly attributed to Queen Marie Antoinette, there is no record of this phrase ever having been said by her.

 

[sprinkles]

Now that we're finished doing absolutely nothing productive... This thread is about the point of the 2nd Amendment, which has been made clear I think.

It is what it is whether you understand or agree with it or not. This is what our justification is. It's something that happens to be in place in our laws and opinions are irrelevant to this fact.

Babbling on about why people want guns is like babbling on about why there are vegetarians. There are just those people because that's how they are.

 

[hush]

Now that we're finished doing absolutely nothing productive... This thread is about the point of the 2nd Amendment, which has been made clear I think.

It is what it is whether you understand or agree with it or not. This is what our justification is. It's something that happens to be in place in our laws and opinions are irrelevant to this fact.

Babbling on about why people want guns is like babbling on about why there are vegetarians. There are just those people because that's how they are.

Yep.

 

[Skarekrow]

Truth hurts.

I will protect myself wherever I go. Criminals will always have guns. I will always have guns. Parking lot of a store? Keep your distance from me. I have had to raise my arm in a parking lot when someone approached me from my blindside, telling him to back away(no way he could have come through that little space). Had my hand in a police or military position: stiff arm with fingers together pointing upward to say "stop". I had a gun, but did not have to reveal it or use it. The guy held both arms up and backed away. People had been getting robbed in that parking lot. It was a white guy, and he knew I meant business.

People with guns are not the danger here.

How is the National Guard going to help if the government gets out of hand?




enabling the people to organize a militia system.
participating in law enforcement;
deterring tyrannical government;[SUP][56][/SUP]
repelling invasion;
suppressing insurrection, allegedly including slave revolts;[SUP][57][/SUP]
[SUP][58][/SUP][SUP][59][/SUP]
facilitating a natural right of self-defense.

Once again…who is trying to take your guns?
They are trying to ban assault rifles and clips that hold over certain numbers of bullets (so theoretically someone has time to shoot him/her while reloading), do you need multiple assault rifles?

Now honestly, do you think that the day will come when they knock forcefully on doors and repossess your weapons?
Firstly…it won’t work…like here in WA state…you don’t have to register a gun, especially from a private sale, or hell, someone can just give you one - a friend, a family member. In fact, a pal of mine just got his concealed carry permit here in WA (OMG, I have actual friends with guns just me!)…no safety training required, they didn’t even require that he tell them the make and model of the gun on the paperwork.
You see, that is where the real bullshit lies.
You honestly think that the US is going to turn into Nazi germany?

And secondly, what a fucked-up thing to do - act you’re about to pull a gun on someone…maybe the guy picked up a dollar you dropped and never had a chance to tell you.
Maybe his car bumped your fender and he waited for you?
Maybe he was getting paid $4 an hour to pass out flyers.
You’ll never know, because some crazed guy told him to back off while he reached for a weapon.

That’s paranoia…and that's a shitty way to live your life - in constant fear.

 

[the]

Really the thread is about why have the right to keep and bear arms on one hand but on the other if you kill a politician then you are automatically labeled terrorist and sent to Guantanamo bay; and how do you exercise your right to neutralize domestic enemies of the state while avoiding jail.

 

[sprinkles]

Really the thread is about why have the right to keep and bear arms on one hand but on the other if you kill a politician then you are automatically labeled terrorist and sent to Guantanamo bay; and how do you exercise your right to neutralize domestic enemies of the state while avoiding jail.

Worst case: you don't. You just accept it as the price to pay.

A lot of people aren't willing to accept that though, which is why authoritarian governments tend to throw dissidents into prison in the first place. You just have to accept that if you're at odds with the government, jail or worse may be likely. But just because they can throw you in prison doesn't mean they're sovereign or justified in doing so.

 

[sprinkles]

And besides, killing politicians is pretty rare nowdays. You're very unlikely to actually reach them.

What is more likely to happen are fights over territory and infrastructure in order to jam the effectiveness of the government to try and get them to capitulate. Terrorism rarely actually works and even when it does, the defacto government it creates tends to be seen as more illegitimate than the one it kicked out.

 

[Kgal]

Speaking of guns.... did you guys see this? This is the reason I chose to carry only my revolver in my purse for years when I did such a thing. I don't anymore. But back then when I felt I had to have a gun with me I was so acutely aware of having a potential accident with it there. It's why I chose a .38 revolver. Plane jane gun. Plane jane bullets. Plane jane safety. Simple and safe. I went through fairly extensive training in a hand gun course given by an Army Major/Police Officer/Mercenary. The fact I carried something that would take other people lives was drilled into me.
Frankly it was a relief when I quit carrying it around. [shrugs] What can I say? I don't care to live in fear anymore.

At any rate - can you believe this happened both in TX AND Alabama on the same day? What are the odds of THAT happening?

Fri Oct 23, 2015 at 09:02 AM PDT

[h=2]Texas woman with a concealed gun accidentally shoots a patient in her doctor's office[/h] by Jen HaydenFollow

• 
  

That's one way to get the doctor in to see you faster.

Can you imagine sitting in an exam room, waiting to be seen by a doctor and then BAM! You've been shot. That's exactly what happened to a Texas woman this week:

A witness told KCEN's sister station 12News that a woman was in the waiting room of a medical office. When she reached into her purse to pull out some paperwork, a gun fell out of her purse causing it to discharge. The round went through a wall and hit another patient in the hip. Bobby Pressley was in the waiting room when it happened.
"Everyone was sitting in the waiting room and there was a gun shot. A woman dropped her purse down on the counter and it shot through the wall and shot another lady," said Pressley.
​

Police are investigating, no charges have been filed....yet.


10:08 AM PT: Update: Two people in Alabama are being treated after they were shot in a grocery store this morning when one of them dropped a concealed gun and it went off.

 

[the]

Worst case: you don't. You just accept it as the price to pay.

A lot of people aren't willing to accept that though, which is why authoritarian governments tend to throw dissidents into prison in the first place. You just have to accept that if you're at odds with the government, jail or worse may be likely. But just because they can throw you in prison doesn't mean they're sovereign or justified in doing so.

Yes that's true. But that's the point. And it being rare is irrelevant.

 

[BrokenDaniel]

Really the thread is about why have the right to keep and bear arms on one hand but on the other if you kill a politician then you are automatically labeled terrorist and sent to Guantanamo bay; and how do you exercise your right to neutralize domestic enemies of the state while avoiding jail.

By getting an angry mob, break in, read whatever charge is on your mind and bringing them to the guillotine on main St in front of everyone.

In the middle east happens a lot, from what i've heard.

EDIT:On second thoughts, maybe the social climate of that time, like, the french revolution might directly influenced that wording.

 

[Kgal]

Truth hurts.

I will protect myself wherever I go. Criminals will always have guns. I will always have guns. Parking lot of a store? Keep your distance from me. I have had to raise my arm in a parking lot when someone approached me from my blindside, telling him to back away(no way he could have come through that little space). Had my hand in a police or military position: stiff arm with fingers together pointing upward to say "stop". I had a gun, but did not have to reveal it or use it. The guy held both arms up and backed away. People had been getting robbed in that parking lot. It was a white guy, and he knew I meant business.

People with guns are not the danger here.


enabling the people to organize a militia system.
participating in law enforcement;
deterring tyrannical government;[SUP][56][/SUP]
repelling invasion;
suppressing insurrection, allegedly including slave revolts;[SUP][57][/SUP]
[SUP][58][/SUP][SUP][59][/SUP]
facilitating a natural right of self-defense.

For what it's worth - many of you are not taking into consideration the Civil War and it's effects on the psyche of the Southern People.

I'm from the South and I have guns. I've also carried for a while as you may note in a previous post. People down here do that sort of thing as part of our culture down here. People who were raised up North or have Northern families from many generations would probably not have the same cultural ways including owning guns. The South got the shit beat out of it...and people here remember that from their ancestors. It'll take a couple more generations before that trauma moves out of the psyche. I don't think the South will be caught unawares ever again.... know what I mean?


Also - people who have lived or live in open country - rural foothills - and the marshes consider a gun as a tool....part and parcel of living. The idea of owning a gun is normal. Do you see? My father's gun killed the copperhead snakes threatening to bite me when a child. There were many years we killed a dozen of them. It's part of living out on the land.
When you guys start yammering away about outlawing guns you threaten the way of life of Southern people - or really - you threaten lives by their removal.

I'd agree to outlawing those automatic machine guns. I swear they're selling them to ordinary people just to incite death and mayhem amongst the people. I mean seriously? Who needs one? You can't hunt with one...legally. They're meant to kill many people. Why on earth would a sane government allow those to be sold to the people?
Oh...that's right...we don't HAVE a sane government.

...and that's the real issue...

What will we do if the government takes the next big step in this police state we call the land of the free and locks us down even tighter? If it comes to a violent revolution... who will you turn to for protection? What would you fight for? Your freedom? Your family? That's why we have the 2nd amendment. It's there as a buffer...a leverage if you will....a check and balance.... between the people and the government they elect to serve them. That's the intention of our forefathers as they knew very well the lure of power and greed and sought ways to keep our hard won freedom.
We have the right to true representation.
We have the right to demand it if we don't get it.
We have the right to defend ourselves if the King's men come for our heads. Yes?
What? You think that's barbaric thinking? We...the US...is only 220 years old. Basically only 3 generations ago there were Kings and Queens around the world saying "Off with their heads" if they wished it....and the guys who fomented revolution saw it first hand. They wrote what they could to protect against the Royals.

 

[La Sagna]

I'm really curious.
Can someone explain how people who are strong supporters of the need for the 2nd Amendment view how other countries that don't have that type of amendment manage fine without it?

 

[just me]

I really never think about it. After all, these rights shall not be infringed.

 

[sprinkles]

I'm really curious.
Can someone explain how people who are strong supporters of the need for the 2nd Amendment view how other countries that don't have that type of amendment manage fine without it?

Why should we view them as anything? It's their business. However if you really want to look, I see a lot of things happen there that would have a hard time happening here, such as various kinds of censorship. For example in the UK the government can apparently just block websites when it feels like it. Here such a thing is laughable. It's little things like that which actually make a big difference.

In other countries the government is sovereign. In the US the people are sovereign.

 

[just me]

Speaking of guns.... did you guys see this? This is the reason I chose to carry only my revolver in my purse for years when I did such a thing. I don't anymore. But back then when I felt I had to have a gun with me I was so acutely aware of having a potential accident with it there. It's why I chose a .38 revolver. Plane jane gun. Plane jane bullets. Plane jane safety. Simple and safe. I went through fairly extensive training in a hand gun course given by an Army Major/Police Officer/Mercenary. The fact I carried something that would take other people lives was drilled into me.
Frankly it was a relief when I quit carrying it around. [shrugs] What can I say? I don't care to live in fear anymore.

At any rate - can you believe this happened both in TX AND Alabama on the same day? What are the odds of THAT happening?

Fri Oct 23, 2015 at 09:02 AM PDT

Texas woman with a concealed gun accidentally shoots a patient in her doctor's office

by Jen HaydenFollow

That's one way to get the doctor in to see you faster.

Can you imagine sitting in an exam room, waiting to be seen by a doctor and then BAM! You've been shot. That's exactly what happened to a Texas woman this week:

A witness told KCEN's sister station 12News that a woman was in the waiting room of a medical office. When she reached into her purse to pull out some paperwork, a gun fell out of her purse causing it to discharge. The round went through a wall and hit another patient in the hip. Bobby Pressley was in the waiting room when it happened.
"Everyone was sitting in the waiting room and there was a gun shot. A woman dropped her purse down on the counter and it shot through the wall and shot another lady," said Pressley.
​

Police are investigating, no charges have been filed....yet.


10:08 AM PT: Update: Two people in Alabama are being treated after they were shot in a grocery store this morning when one of them dropped a concealed gun and it went off.

Only carry one in the chamber of a semi-auto in a bad place. Carrying a hot-loaded gun in a Dr's office is not realistic. I've never dropped a gun. I like revolvers, too. They are also something that can save your life. Has nothing to do with fear.

 

[Eventhorizon]

4 pages....wow.
To discuss something that isnt a discussion.