2nd Amendment - what's the point?

[just me]

You’ll see them on the line at prestigious shooting matches all over the world. Six women wear the company’s trademarked bright blue shirt with additional sponsors logos carefully placed. But make no mistake; the blue shirt says it all. As designated competition shooters for Smith & Wesson, these women not only exemplify the finest skills in the world of competitive shooting, they also serve as role models to bastions of women who believe in the Second Amendment and enjoy competitive and traditional shooting.
Smith & Wesson labels their pro shooters the Champions; Doug Koenig, Jerry Miculek and Julie Golob. Everyone else who wears the blue shirt is a member Team Smith & Wesson.

 

[j654dgj7]

I'm really curious.
Can someone explain how people who are strong supporters of the need for the 2nd Amendment view how other countries that don't have that type of amendment manage fine without it?

That's what I'm thinking as well. I don't know a single person that owns a firearm. Well, my dad used to be a hunter but he kept his riffle in a secure second location. What interests me especially is the divide between the south and north that [MENTION=2578]Kgal[/MENTION] mentioned. Also, does anyone really think that it is possible for a militia to take down the US government? The US military is one of the best funded institutions in the world, and its technology is incredibly advanced.

 

[sprinkles]

That's what I'm thinking as well. I don't know a single person that owns a firearm. Well, my dad used to be a hunter but he kept his riffle in a secure second location. What interests me especially is the divide between the south and north that [MENTION=2578]Kgal[/MENTION] mentioned. Also, does anyone really think that it is possible for a militia to take down the US government? The US military is one of the best funded institutions in the world, and its technology is incredibly advanced.

Nobody said that a militia could take down the government. Think Thermopylae.

 

[sprinkles]

Also I find it pretty ironic that some other countries are basically a paradise compared to the US and that the way our education and health care works is pretty shitty, and that our government often makes very sub-par decisions, both locally and abroad.

But when it comes to the 2nd Amendment all of that shit suddenly disappears and people look at us with a straight face and tell us that we worry too much.

 

[sprinkles]

And now that I really think about it, this nation is barely fucking adequate in the first world. We're scrabbling to keep it from getting any worse.

That's how I really feel.

 

[Skarekrow]

Still waiting to hear someone explain how the US has reached the level of - a toddler shooting a week.
No joke.
I mean, WTF America?

 

[sprinkles]

Still waiting to hear someone explain how the US has reached the level of - a toddler shooting a week.
No joke.
I mean, WTF America?

The system is broken and people have largely lost their minds all over the place. People are sick and getting sicker all the time.

However I think one of the biggest problems is people's refusal to be accountable to one another. Guns aside, a society must have serious problems just to produce so many fucked up people out of it in the first place.

I think it's ridiculous how nobody wants to look at the social environment and social karma but rather we jump to the inanimate objects instead. There's a reason people are killing each other, and it's not merely because guns are available. To think it is just the guns is to think that people are murderous as a norm, and I find that to be a shitty standard for humanity.

 

[Skarekrow]

The system is broken and people have largely lost their minds all over the place. People are sick and getting sicker all the time.

However I think one of the biggest problems is people's refusal to be accountable to one another. Guns aside, a society must have serious problems just to produce so many fucked up people out of it in the first place.

I think it's ridiculous how nobody wants to look at the social environment and social karma but rather we jump to the inanimate objects instead. There's a reason people are killing each other, and it's not merely because guns are available. To think it is just the guns is to think that people are murderous as a norm, and I find that to be a shitty standard for humanity.

I have always said in all my posts that the ease of access to guns is only one side of the issue.
This country has buried it’s head in the sand…it’s the media, mental health (lack of), guns and ease of access, it’s teaching our kids in school to no longer think critically - it’s negatively reinforced bullshit to make good office workers. The human psyche of some people can’t handle that kind of brainwashing.

 

[sprinkles]

I have always said in all my posts that the ease of access to guns is only one side of the issue.
This country has buried it’s head in the sand…it’s the media, mental health (lack of), guns and ease of access, it’s teaching our kids in school to no longer think critically - it’s negatively reinforced bullshit to make good office workers. The human psyche of some people can’t handle that kind of brainwashing.

And the need to feel secure feeds back into this problem. People understandably don't want to be walked over or shot by crazy people who clearly exist and are not an imagined threat, and therefore they arm themselves, inadvertently putting more risk back into the equation.

Weapons manufacturers also capitalize on the unease, regrettably.

 

[Skarekrow]

And the need to feel secure feeds back into this problem. People understandably don't want to be walked over or shot by crazy people who clearly exist and are not an imagined threat, and therefore they arm themselves, inadvertently putting more risk back into the equation.

Weapons manufacturers also capitalize on the unease, regrettably.

Well, look at anything we are constantly bombarded with - fear fear fear.
Insecurity insecurity insecurity

Just buy this gun…or this home security system…or almost pull your handgun on some random dude in a parking lot.
If you don’t own this you are shit, if you don’t drive X your dick is small, wear this make-up and look like a whore or something is wrong with you.
We’ve gone insane as a nation.

 

[sprinkles]

I have nothing left to add now that I'm thoroughly disgusted and have fully accomplished a migraine.

I hope you people got whatever it is you wanted. I know I didn't.

 

[Kgal]

The system is broken and people have largely lost their minds all over the place. People are sick and getting sicker all the time.

However I think one of the biggest problems is people's refusal to be accountable to one another. Guns aside, a society must have serious problems just to produce so many fucked up people out of it in the first place.

I think it's ridiculous how nobody wants to look at the social environment and social karma but rather we jump to the inanimate objects instead. There's a reason people are killing each other, and it's not merely because guns are available. To think it is just the guns is to think that people are murderous as a norm, and I find that to be a shitty standard for humanity.

Agreed.

It's one of the reasons why I brought up the fact this nation has been through a Civil War and oppressed indigenous cultures in very recent generations. This has impacted the minds of the people involved in those violent times and is still present in our societal belief structures today.

People are NOT murderous by nature. The get that way when they're pushed and pushed and pushed again. That has been going on from our governments to the american people for a long long time. The insanity we see all around us is the result.

As for karma...whew... the US sure has built up a lot of it.

 

[La Sagna]

You've been directly judgmental of me at least twice in the past few posts. Not to mention putting words in my mouth and taking what I said way out of context.

If I misunderstood anything you said I am always open to corrections but you basically told me that I shouldn't ask any questions and can't comment because I'm not American. I didn't see anything in this thread saying that only Americans are allowed to comment.

I simply commented that dismissing everything else that is going on in the world is like putting your head in the sand.

I am not attacking anybody or even the 'right to bear arms'. I'm just curious to understand why people feel so strongly about it. There have been some comments on here that have helped me understand a little more.

 

[La Sagna]

2nd Amendment rights have nothing to do with other countries. That may go as far as with people from other countries. It is for American citizens. If you don't like guns, stay away from them and leave us be.

Ok. Thanks for sort of answering. I wasn't asking about what you think others think about it or whether they should think about it at all. People from other countries will have opinions no matter whether you think they should or not, but I do agree that their opinions are irrelevant to what happens in the US.

The question that I'm actually asking is why people believe that it is so important for Americans to have the right to bear arms when it isn't important in most other countries. You don't have to answer but it is just an innocent question that is born out of pure curiosity.

 

[sprinkles]

If I misunderstood anything you said I am always open to corrections but you basically told me that I shouldn't ask any questions and can't comment because I'm not American. I didn't see anything in this thread saying that only Americans are allowed to comment.

What the fuck? You better show me where I said that.

I simply commented that dismissing everything else that is going on in the world is like putting your head in the sand.

Better show me where I did that too.

I am not attacking anybody or even the 'right to bear arms'. I'm just curious to understand why people feel so strongly about it. There have been some comments on here that have helped me understand a little more.

If you're only curious then why didn't you just take what I initially said as is instead of reading a bunch of things into it?

 

[Matt3737]

Aggression goes hand in hand with competition.

Exceptionalism is the perception that a country, society, institution, movement, or time period is "exceptional" (i.e., unusual or extraordinary) in some way and thus does not need to conform to normal rules or general principles.

American exceptionalism is the theory that the United States is inherently different from other nations. In this view, American exceptionalism stems from its emergence from the American Revolution, thereby becoming what political scientist Seymour Martin Lipset called "the first new nation" and developing a uniquely American ideology, "Americanism", based on liberty, egalitarianism, individualism, republicanism, democracy and laissez-faire. This ideology itself is often referred to as "American exceptionalism."

Although the term does not necessarily imply superiority, many neoconservative and other American conservative writers have promoted its use in that sense. To them, the U.S. is like the biblical "City upon a Hill"–a phrase evoked by British colonists to North America as early as 1630–and exempt from historical forces that have affected other countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism

Within a competitive environment there must exist both winners and losers. When you begin to see and class another human being as either inherently 'successful' or 'unsuccessful' under capitalist ideology you can begin to justify, magnify, and reinforce a social divide that is entirely at odds with the precept that "all men are created equal".

Many social institutions within America that absolutely should not be monetized have become big business. Our education, healthcare, and laws care less about their given roles within society and more about how much money you have and how much they can squeeze from you.

Here's an article on debtor's prisons in America:

Ferebee, a high school dropout, had a series of run-in with the law and ended up with a felony. You know the formula by now. Lack of education plus felony record equals poverty. Unless you can work two jobs. Which child support enforcement and the court told him to do. “And when am I supposed to see my kids?” he asked.

“All I was saying was, ‘Give me an opportunity instead of throwing me in jail because that just puts me further behind in child support,'” Ferebee says. “Let me find work so I can earn money.’”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...d-support-can-be-a-modern-day-debtors-prison/

 

[La Sagna]

[MENTION=6917]sprinkles[/MENTION]

What did you mean by this then:

Well you did have to ask. People don't talk about this because of responses like yours. Why do you care so much about things that don't concern you?

This is exactly why I said what I said. What other countries do is none of my affair and even when we DO say an opinion when ASKED for one, people take an attitude about it.

I don't know why you people always have to TALK about shit that doesn't concern you. You don't seem to like it when people scrutinize your internal affairs so maybe you should return the same courtesy for a change.

I took it to mean that you were telling me to shut up about anything to do with the Us. If you meant something else let me know.

I have never had any problem with scrutiny of my country's affairs from outside, and in my experience Canadians actually love any sort of notice from outside, good or bad, because mostly we feel like the ignored little brother in the shadow of the big brother next door. So I'm really not sure where you got that idea that I, or we, don't like our internal affairs scrutinized.

 

[sprinkles]

[MENTION=6917]sprinkles[/MENTION]

What did you mean by this then:



I took it to mean that you were telling me to shut up about anything to do with the Us. If you meant something else let me know.

I have never had any problem with scrutiny of my country's affairs from outside, and in my experience Canadians actually love any sort of notice from outside, good or bad, because mostly we feel like the ignored little brother in the shadow of the big brother next door. So I'm really not sure where you got that idea that I, or we, don't like our internal affairs scrutinized.

Yeah keep in mind that this was AFTER you accused me of Americentric bias when all I was doing was trying to censor MYSELF for other people's benefit.

I don't believe it is important to form opinions about everything under the sun. In fact I think it is detrimental to do so. This doesn't mean I don't try to know about things outside of my zone, I simply try to stay neutral about them if I can because forming opinions does nothing to benefit them nor me.

 

[sprinkles]

[MENTION=9809]La Sagna[/MENTION]

Also I like privacy and it's only good intentions when I try to extend that respect to other people. It's not a bias or an insult. It's me offering the same courtesy which I would like to have. The fact that you're ok with it doesn't automagically make me ok with it.

 

[La Sagna]

Yeah keep in mind that this was AFTER you accused me of Americentric bias when all I was doing was trying to censor MYSELF for other people's benefit.

I don't believe it is important to form opinions about everything under the sun. In fact I think it is detrimental to do so. This doesn't mean I don't try to know about things outside of my zone, I simply try to stay neutral about them if I can because forming opinions does nothing to benefit them nor me.

Yes, I realize that it was after I put up the definition of Americentrism. You obviously had a strong reaction to that. Maybe my reaction was a little strong, although I don't see it as too harsh. I just think that it is harmful for anybody to be too insular or navel gazing and that as a generality Americans have a tendency to be guilty of that. It's not to say that there aren't people in other countries who are like that. There are plenty in Canada who are, and it's no better. I believe in healthy, open and respectful discussion to form better understanding of what is going on in the world and that is one reason that I was asking the question I was. It's a perspective that I have a difficult time understanding and I like to understand what drives people to have such strong beliefs. In the case of guns in the US it's almost an emotional reaction that people have. I find it interesting. It's not even about forming an opinion in this case. I do form opinions but they tend to be very fluid and open to different perspectives.

Really, I was just curious about how the other countries would be viewed in regards to their gun policies. I'm beginning to think that you are right and they are just ignored, which is an answer in itself I guess, which leads back to the US being insular.